> You need to realize that
> (a) reality trumps fantasy
?
Have you missed the years and years of people criticizing Linus for his communication style?
Sometimes you need to stress the difference betwen “my opinion” (as in “Kernel development requires greater safety standards”) and “facts” (“safety does not exist in software because it does not control the hardware aspect”).
If he were any other person, he’d have been axed a long time ago for this behavior.
I don’t understand how people put up with this kind of toxicity, even from him.
He gets a lot more leeway than being the creator of Linux should afford someone.
Inclusivity and non-hostile work environments should not be considered “perfect” and “all-inclusive”. They should be basic. The default. The lowest bar possible.
If you are an asshole, are known to be an asshole, have no intention of changing that, and are working with others… maybe don’t. You’re free to work alone, but why make people around you miserable by having to deal with you? Go be an asshole to yourself and let everyone else work together.
It’s shocking that advocating for safe and inclusive work environments is such a controversial topic. If he were any other person, his behavior would be quashed in a second.
Its a bit sad that Linus needs to replicate individually what other engineering disciplines are mandated to by regulations. Look at car, train or aviation safety, they are decades ahead.
Do you have any actual counter points or were you planning on beating that ad hominem to death?
It’s not a “work environment”. You can’t report Linus to HR. If you have a problem with him, you can fork the kernel and convince others to follow you. Then you’ll have a mailing list where you can ban Linus for his style. Good luck!
Just because it’s not an official “work environment” per your definition does not mean it isn’t hostile or intolerable were it actually one.
But actually countering that point is a lot harder, isn’t it?
Unreasonable people also build things alone where everyone else doesn’t have to deal with them.
The world is hardly as black and white as you make it seem.
How many people are joining? How many people are joining because or in lieu of Linus? How many people are joining just because it’s Linux/Git/whatever (although granted that is in part due to Linus making them such big things)? How many people would have joined/wouldn’t have left if he wasn’t there?
Personally I find that Linus here not toxic at all, at most a borderline strong opinion, but come on, as well as we all need to be more empathic, we should also be able to take some harsher critique and make not such a toxicity thing out of an more open and direct opinionated response...
It is not, because that is exactly the problem.. whats your view of safe and inclusive is to some hostile and exclusive.. and until people realize that this extreme creates similar well-behaved assholes: nevermind.
People don't have a universal right to collaborate to this project, especially on their own terms.
In the same way, these projects will like you said, evolve in positive or negative ways with no God given right to exist and thrive.
That's a pretty intolerable outright hostile and exclusive judgement :(
I will go further: if you think what Linus said here is unreasonable or rude, you really need to get out more.
And then there would be no Linux kernel. So much for companies.
It feels hostile and intolerable to you.
There are many people who find the risk-averse non-confrontational corpspeak intolerable.
You, and the billions of people using linux, are free to fork the code and exclude Linus completley.
>It’s shocking that advocating for safe and inclusive work environments
This isn't a "work enviroment" in the way you seem to be implying. The vast majority of people contributing to the kernel do not work for linux or Linus.
But why are you complaining that a group of people who don't want to work in your default environment went off and created their own?
I don't understand what you have to complain about: they have their way of working and you want to change that because it offends you?
Sounds like you're the problem, not them.
Source: aerospace engineer with a flight sciences background, and also software reviewer for flight systems.
And the *reality* is that there are no absolute guarantees. Ever. The "Rust is safe" is not some kind of absolute guarantee of code safety. Never has been. Anybody who believes that should probably re-take their kindergarten year, and stop believing in the Easter bunny and Santa Claus.
Just as the parent comment generalized about the two kinds of people out there, I added other examples of generalizations about people. But that’s all they are, generalizations. Not specific examples.
Well, I don't go around pointing out how random groups, formed by like-minded people voluntarily, are doing collaboration "wrong".
If I did, on some random internet forum, complain that the local Street Rod Enthusiasts Club[1] doesn't do proper agendas for their meetings, or that a book-reading club[1] that I know off isn't properly structured, or that the volunteer SPCA group is using the wrong IM/Chat software to communicate .. well, then I'm the problem.
[1] That I have no intention of joining