As if our traffic didn't qualify us as the LA of the East.
Seriously though, metropolitan Atlanta is a great area to live with three major interstates going through the city and a very well developer surrounding area. With many businesses adopting more lenient WFH policies the drive is not always a concern. Schools are generally a good mix of public and private as with any area.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2021/02/11/investing-to-gro...
Why does this company even need a hub? It could use some extra lobbying power I'm sure, given that it's entire business model is dependent upon them remaining a de-facto monopoly.
P.S.: typo? "...and not Airbnb" --> "...and now Airbnb" :)
This is what I mean by 'underdeveloped':
- Most software dev job postings (as of May 2018) have SPECIFIC tech stack requirements. This to me is a red flag. Most recruiters in 'developed' tech cities assume that software development skills are transferable and that technology stacks/frameworks/languages can be learned.
- The salaries offered were still very low compared to comparable COL locations like Austin
- No major FAANG presence to put upward pressure on local developer wages
I lived in Athens, GA for almost a decade, and when my wife and decided to move to a bigger city, this was a major factor in us deciding not to move to Atlanta. We're really big on biking and public transportation, and at the time it didn't feel like Atlanta was an option because of this.
That said, I miss Georgia a lot. I don't think people who live in other states realize how cool Athens and Atlanta are.
When I think of NYC, SF, Austin, Seattle, I think of cities with robust arts/culture/dining/entertainment, accessibility (public transit) and enough professional basis to allow job mobility. These things entice younger people to congregate.
There are other metros that have great education and in particular tech education (Raleigh/Durham, Pittsburgh, Chicago) but don't tend to build up tech industries.
My sister now lives in Decatur and I've been looking at some of the apartments near the MARTA stations there, and they're unfortunately mostly exclusively new luxury buildings (which I am very lucky to be able to afford on my current salary, but maybe not at a local job, or an adjusted-for-relocation remote one).
Frustrating how there's so little walkable development around the MARTA stations other than Decatur's, and what there is is so expensive. Of course, I could deal with a five minute park and ride, but it's kinda the principle of the thing.
Obviously that doesn't stop people from moving there but I am always shocked more walk-able dense development hasn't taken root.
The city recently made a big push to attract talent in the entertainment and film industries, which appears to have worked pretty well. It would be nice to see them do something similar for tech. It's kind of sad that the state subsidized my education (and many others) but does not have the incentives in place to keep people once they graduate.
Also, the local salaries are a big part of the reason people leave. The low cost of living does not make a difference when you can save more per year in the Bay Area than an entirely yearly salary in Atlanta.
Because it inevitably butts up against people’s desire to not live near lower socioeconomic classes who may not be able to afford a car centric life. See the prevalence of school rankings (proxy for parental wealth) in real estate websites.
Older cities or older areas within cities with dense construction were grandfathered in, but I doubt we’ll see another new city like that in the US. The primary way we separate us from them is with unwalkable distances.
1. Big companies being more amenable to remote work. I don't see a total shift to remote to be likely or even desirable but a partial shift is good; and
2. An end to the ultimately unsustainable ultra-concentration of tech jobs in places like SF and NYC.
I see the likely winners here are Atlanta, Denver/Boulder, Dallas/Forth Worth, Austin and Tampa. This may well trickle-down to mid-sized regional centers too. Think Boise, Salt Lake City, Louisville, Nashville, Memphis, etc.
I support this decentralization.
I work remotely to avoid any and all traffic.
I'm happy to see larger tech companies planting some roots here.
I have never lived somewhere with less public transportation, art & culture, dining, and entertainment options than Austin, Texas.
And I’ve spent my entire life in the American south. Houston for example of all places, does twice as much on all of those qualities!
Regardless, this is a smart move for airbnb. I have no doubt they'll get great talented engineers, lower costs, and be able to brag about their diversity numbers compared to other west coast companies as a result. But until there is real startup investment in the south, I'm not optimistic that we'll see anything special come from this trend. That said, if I'm wrong and this means more tech investment in Atlanta for startups too - I'd be incredibly happy.
There’s a feature on the site where you can click a given level for a given company, and filter the individual offer data to a given metro/city. It’s super useful, even if a bit more labor intensive than being able to use the top-of-the-fold summary stats.
Edit: the link to click is “filter locations”, it’s on the top right after clicking/opening a given level’s info card.
Airbnb needed an East Coast home.
The company I work for participates in UIUC's City Scholars program[0]. If you work for a company in Chicago, push for them to participate. It introduces the students to Chicago's tech scene.
The flip side to that is sprawl is cheap living. SF doesn't sprawl but that means you can't afford a house unless you're rich.
Buh? I was there less than 2 years but this is a baffling statement to me.
edit: except public transportation point.
When I lived in Seattle, I met a lot of people with very distorted views of Southern cities in general. A lot of people who have never spent much time (or any time) in the south get their whole concept of us from crazy politicians, awful hollywood movies, and jim crow. That said - I've met tons of southerners that stereotype all Californians unfairly negatively as well (they think it's all berkely antifa and LA gangs). This is one big reason I really wish we had a national program like the one Yang proposed, where high schoolers could spend time in different communities across the country. Travel is expensive, but there's really no substitute for it when it comes to dispelling regional prejudices.
I'd expect this to continue under normal conditions. Companies diving into a new city and trying to foster these conditions in the cheaper costs of a new city. But the pandemic really kicked WFH into overdrive and there are just so many companies abandoning the scope of physical presences.
RTFA.
That's definitely lower than other markets, but Atlanta is a much cheaper place to live than most other big cities. Housing is definitely catching up though. The only thing I will say about Atlanta, it gets HUMID for large swathes of the year. The climate is really unpleasant if you're prone to sweating and enjoy being outdoors.
And as someone living in ATL and working at one of the few companies to offer competitive salaries for their tech positions, this is only upside in my eyes.
Also, unlike many transit systems, MARTA lets you bring a bike on busses and trains, so you can extend your effective transit range a bit if you are able to bike.
I lived and worked there for a while there.
* Most of the tech jobs are out in burbs like alpharetta ect.
* City is just not great. There isn't much to do.
* Feels a bit old school and traditional.
* No access to snow for skiing , to the ocean for surfing, mountain biking trails are decent but not great.
* Music scene is not good. I don't like to listen to country , rock ect.
* I always feel a little scared to drive outside ATL into GA, Alabama. Confederate flags, churches in the gas stations. I've heard some stories from my friends. I admit that this might be an irrational fear.
Clearly you don't listen to rap and hip hop either
Currently I’m in Florida and I’ve been similarly confused by how underdeveloped tech feels here. I mean this is one of the biggest states with several metropolitan areas and a large economic base, but frankly most of what I’ve seen as far as tech jobs seems mostly underwhelming.
Time zones are also important if you are doing customer or client support.
The south got something to say.
One key, in my suburb area there's reasonably sized community parks all over. Shortly I'll take a 30 minute after-lunch walk, at the park that's a few houses down and big enough for a 30-minute walking loop.
Commute times CAN be long, but don't have to be. I have no idea why motorcycles aren't more used, especially in areas where there's no real winter. In CA you can lane split and _really_ cut down commute times. Here in AZ motorcyclists can't yet split lanes, but we can use the HOV lane. Cuts my commute time in half.
Further, Phoenix doesn't have a great downtown area anyway. There's plenty of interesting restaurants and shops spread throughout the valley. I just don't have to go "across town" very often, so the sprawl isn't that big of a deal.
Lastly, I can be in downtown Scottsdale in 30 minutes if I want, but I can also be in alone in nature, with likely no one around me for miles, in about 45.
If you want to ski, fly to Colorado and ski...if you want to be a ski bum, yes...Atlanta is not for you.
And yes, it has its downsides...it is sprawling, public transportation is not good, it can get very hot in the summer, crime can be high, and generally many of the problems that large metro areas deal with.
Is that fair? I don’t know. Feels like there’s a spectrum. Can’t see anything Airbnb have done that’s technically innovative, but rather their main innovation is a very novel (and much criticised) business model.
It's possible most non-competes will be banned nationally (US), see https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-can-free-mil... and https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#:~:text=Eliminate%20non...
I'm not saying there are any reasons they should not have been an early adopter... but Atlanta definitely has its charms, and allowing people to get a masters from a top-ten program while scarcely ever setting foot on campus seems like it could be a disservice to the state.
ATL is also home to the world's busiest airport. If you like to travel, it's a great city. You can fly direct to almost anywhere in the world.
Not enough outdoor activities here. The amount of hiking trails is great for Texas. But not at the national scale or when compared to the West Coast & northern Rockies.
Texas is mostly private land, so there just aren't any greenbelts (that I know of, within 2 hours of Austin) where you can hike for 10-40 miles one way.
I'm strongly leaning towards Washington for that reason-- Huge "parks" (more like "wilderness zones") for hiking, as well as ocean kayaking, ocean sailing, and ocean fishing.
It's a cheap flight to Alaska from there. And WA is the only contiguous west coast state without state income tax.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare...
$150k in Austin equates to $236k in Seattle (knock off 35%)
$150k in Austin equates to $296k in SF Bay (knock off 50%)
Don't let your hate for Airbnb pick apart every single headline.
I’ve wanted to see big tech expand into the South for years. (Austin doesn’t count.) Atlanta and Nashville please.
As a motorcycle rider myself, I think you simply don't understand how bad it gets in ATL (both during summer and winter).
I currently live in Seattle, and it rains quite often, but it is just a drizzle most of the time, and I can still ride quite comfortably. Summer is a bit too hot at times, but nothing wild. Winters are fine too, aside from those very rare snow days.
Before moving to Seattle, I used to live in ATL, and I can tell you I would never ride a motorcycle there for multiple reasons.
1. It doesn't rain as often in ATL as it does in Seattle, but when it does, it comes out of nowhere and it pours buckets. Impossible to ride, even driving a car feels extremely risky with those rains.
2. Winters in ATL tend to be colder than in Seattle a lot of times (not averaged out, but on a day-to-day basis; e.g., one day in January you wear a winter coat, a week after you wear shorts and a tshirt, and another week later you are back to your winter coat), and summers are always much much hotter and much more humid. Weather swings much stronger in both directions. Humidity is a total killer. Riding in ATL during summer is pretty much impossible, unless you invest into cooling solutions (like cooling vests and such, which barely work for longer than 20 minutes at a time, as I found out from my own experience). You mention Phoenix, but the crucial difference is that air in Phoenix is very dry, which is much better for riding (or being outside in general). I witnessed 95F+ temps in Seattle (which also has dry air) a few times, and didn't even blink an eye and was able to stay comfortably outside. In ATL, I couldn't stand being outside even for a few mins once the temps climbed above 75F. Overall, I would say ATL has way way less rideable days than Seattle, and that's despite the Seattle rain.
3. Last, but not the least, drivers. While this isn't the main factor in my decision to never ride in ATL, it could be for a lot of people. Drivers are very aggressive, with many coming from very rural or suburban GA, driving giant trucks and having some animosity towards motorcycle riders specifically. I am not joking about the last one, I legitimately heard multiple people claim they wished it was legal to hit motorcycle riders on the road. But again, this point is just a minor one for me, as it is much more subjective than the first two and can be just written off as my personal experience aka anecdata.
With that in mind, I just want to say that this is not my critique of ATL as a city overall, just when it comes to riding a motorcycle there. If ATL manages to get the career opportunities for devs going with all those tech companies opening big offices there, and it all succeeds, I would consider moving back, despite the weather. ATL has quite a lot of things worthy of praise and appreciation that I miss while living in Seattle.
It's doubtful Software Engineers are covered by non-competes in Georgia. You could use one for sales people and possibly an ex-founder or executive.
And yes, the came could be said for other, less sexy companies.
Couple of thoughts:
- the tech startup scene is hurting for risk capital. Seed & Series A investors (primarily) come from capital generated at prior exits (e.g. Google millionaires seed the next round of startups, etc.). Atlanta has had some big exits, but not the kind that mint 100s of young millionaires. By contrast, Seattle has had two mega tech exits. Austin had Dell and a few .com hits as accelerants (and their money has had decades to spawn more companies). There are some exciting Atlanta startups that may exit to create the seeds for the next generation of companies.
(Honestly, the aspiring early-stage VCs could do a lot worse than backing companies in the Atlanta area now. Less competition to get in on deals, equity likely cheaper, and the pandemic means that later-stage investors are considering doing deals outside of northern California.)
> Most software dev job postings (as of May 2018) have SPECIFIC tech stack requirements.
Likely an artifact of the diversified economy here. The non-tech Fortune 500s HQ'd in the area hire a lot of tech people. That's going to skew how recruiters operate. For the most part, this is not a factor in the tech metros. Also, I would push back on the premise in general. I have not seen very many job postings of the form "backend dev needed, any stack and database experience are okay." That would seem to be the outlier.
> The salaries offered were still very low compared to comparable COL locations like Austin
Austin is notably more expensive than Atlanta.
> No major FAANG presence to put upward pressure on local developer wages
Obviously TFA is about adding new tech presence to the area. But Microsoft building its East Coast HQ in Atlanta is also a big deal. Anecdotally, I have also seen compensation inflation among F500 companies in the area.
Things are changing.
Out of the ones I personally worked with, Enzyme[1] is pretty much the de-facto industry standard for writing React unit tests. Airflow[2] is used very commonly (our team at a big known non-tech company I used to work at used it about 5 years ago), and so is Lottie[3]. And these are just the ones off the top of my head, given that I actually got to use those. They have many many more that seem to have a pretty high usage. And their tech blog is very insightful, I learned quite a bit from it myself when it comes to my development skills.
And no, I neither was nor currently am employed by Airbnb, not a big user of theirs, not paid to say any of this, and I have no particular liking towards them at all.
0. https://airbnb.io/projects/
1. https://airbnb.io/projects/enzyme/
No insight on Atlanta or Seattle, but Austin has had tech longer than people like to think (IBM/Freescale, UT Austin+TI Partnerships, etc), and also got on the 'hype train' early by rebranding SXSW from pure music/entertainment into 'SXSW Interactive' quite a while back (early 2000s if I'm not mistaken), so you have lots of west coast tech/media/vc 'influencers' heading there on a yearly basis getting schmoozed heavy
It was really unfortunate to see such a blatant money grab.
There's tons of world music in Atlanta too, since Atlanta is one of the primary locations new refugees get sent. That's why you can get just about any cuisine on Buford Highway.
Maybe it won't be a problem in the Covid era, with zoom calls everywhere, but in the pre-Covid era Atlanta was a PITA for travel.
In fact, by most measures NYC is more diverse than Atlanta. Atlanta is for the most part whites+blacks, whereas NY has an actual latino and asian population.
I've even seen firsthand how racism against asians and Indians is rampant and often conducted by those that supposedly are advocates for minorities.
WA seems very nice, the no state tax thing basically means a free mortgage payment if you are making good money in tech(not paying CA taxes)
With remote work, and an off-grid equipped van, I imagine someone who works from a computer can explore a large swath of the state, and nearby states, to find the right mix of weather and activities.
That said, they'd still likely be based in the Seattle area, and would largely remain subject to its weather conditions.
What you're alluding to is simply not true. I worked at several companies and have several friends in Atlanta area that have no such problems. I think you're extending African American population density in Atlanta to fit a narrative that simply has no backing. In fact, companies in Atlanta area are more diverse than Austin or whatever techhub you want to name, except SF Bay Area I would say.
I had a mentor at a college internship request I be transferred to another mentor a couple days after they learned I was atheist. The ~50 person software dev org I was in was 90% male, 90% white in a >60% Black city.
For context, I'm a tall, straight-passing white dude with a slight Southern accent. I'm a guy who has had people tell me racist jokes unprompted because they assume they're in good company, and I could still see this kinda shit around me. Shit's unreal as a woman or person of color.
This was at a Fortune 50 company with a couple thousand IT/engineering employees (and this was <36 months ago).
I get that the Bay Area is not always the progressive paradise it pretends to be, but "California == liberal" in many non-West-Coast eyes for a reason.
Stock market shares are the same, but things like gas prices, groceries, utilities, and rent are vastly different.
Yea definetly. I have friends who love living there and are raising families there.
Does this mean that you're actually better off taking unweighted non-honors/AP classes and getting a better grade, rather than taking honors/AP classes and getting a less good grade?
$160k base
$380k equity
$540k total comp
I've been highly compensated in Atlanta for nearly my entire career, except the year when I worked out of ATDC.
edit: I misread that you were looking for Austin figures, not Atlanta. I still think this is valuable for the ATLiens here. We've had tech companies here for over a decade - you just have to know.
You must not have tried very hard. Atlanta is a music hub. It's one of the best features of our city.
For one, we're the hip hop / rap epicenter. But we also cater to indie, alternative, electronic, and punk.
Pre-pandemic you could find shows every night at over three dozen different venues. Tabernacle, Buckhead Theatre, Center Stage, Masquerade, Terminal West, Variety Playhouse, The Loft, The Earl, Aisle 5, Chastain Park, Wonderroot, Smith's Old Bar, The Roxy...
I can't count how many times I was torn between seeing two or three different acts I wanted to see because they all happened on the same night. It's like a curse. That's how much music happens in Atlanta.
Music Midtown, Shaky Knees, Shaky Beats...
I think you forget that Atlanta is home to a burgeoning creative industry. And that's more than just music. In 2017, Georgia films collectively grossed more than films shot and produced anywhere else in the world. And we're still killing it.
Atlanta creatives and our art and culture scene are thriving.
"What do you do when it's 90+ and you need to be outside?"
"You sweat and accept that other people sweat."
If you shower once a day, a little sweat isn't a bit deal. I think of it as making sure my pores are clear.
It was a huge game changer for me personally - it took a while to pick up, but now I actually look forward to the months of December to March (sometimes April) in Seattle, because it means I'm 45 minutes away from good skiing, and a couple hours away from great skiing.
Of course, it's not a spot for everyone, but even if you just do cross-country skiing or snowshoeing, it's totally possible to get "great" weather in the winter here.
Why does Airbnb need a "tech hub?"
I think going through this exercise will show it's more than "just a website"
Airbnb is investing in their business, in what they believe (and they probably know from their numbers) will grow their future. They don't have to rationalize it only if there is complexity involved.
How on earth did that ever pass??
To agree on different grounds;
They had some remote employees before; have had some remote employees (awkwardly, as an exception while promoting remote work), and will have been all remote for 1.5 years by August.
Will this actually hire jobs in the area? Or is it going to be a reserve office for occasional team building events that is located near a major airport.
cost of living does not scale w/ salary increases. it's a silly calculation. not essential at all.
Making $236k in seattle is going to be much more fruitful than making $115k in whatever flyover place. this argument is always used by people that need to justify living in their boring towns
every cost of living calculator assumes you spend 100% of your paycheck on cost of living.
What's funny is when we moved, we actually considered Asheville, too, but decided to go a little bigger. When we lived in Athens it was rare we'd visit Asheville and not run in to someone we knew, or saw that a friend's band from Athens was playing. There is (or was, at least) a lot of reciprocity between the two music scenes.
I've spent time in SF, Portland, various cities in Texas, and a year in Florida. (Never the northeast or Colorado, which are omissions - but I hate snow and cold.)
Spent a year in Japan, and a few months in China. Expat life might have been fun if I was still in my 20's...
Despite all of that, Atlanta has always felt right. It's incredibly diverse - way more than many cities - and full of culture. The music scene is on point, and I used to go to shows at least once a week before the pandemic.
I'm frequently on the Beltline (and used to use it to commute to work pre-Covid). The Hooch, ample outdoors, hiking, lakes.
I also own an amazing condo here. 25'' ceilings, penthouse skyline view with 20'' windows, historic all-brick walls. It's amazing. It'd easily cost millions in another city, yet my mortgage payment is less than $2k/mo here.
I'll probably be able to retire at 40. Or start a company with minimal risk.
Georgia has a ton to do, and the cost of living is still incredibly cheap. I can't imagine leaving, just buying a second home.
I've driven in many US cities, and had to suffer the DC traffic horror show for work trips.
My wife's current company HQ is across the mighty traffic river of the 285 from the Brave's fancy new ballpark.
I used to tag along on the twice yearly trips because in theory, downtown and midtown Atlanta are pretty good looking and have a lot of cool urban things; then there are the Buford HW culinary expeditions.
I stopped because even though I had complete freedom to travel in the middle of the day, using Google Maps for advice, I could not get even a single day when one direction did not fail into stupid dumb no way to route around time destruction gridlock.
I watched the Guadalara MX evening commute for 5 days from something like 25th floor of the hotel, and it made me think. A couple of trips to the 'De Efe' MX and stupidly riding a tourist bus at 5pm (no time to spare!) made me think some more. Yesterday I was looking and thinking about Tempe, and its absolutely magnificent building boom. It's a spectacular transformation, for an American City. La Defense, without decent art. I wouldn't want to spend much time in either... Tempe because of the soon to be 130F summer days. LD, because if you're in Paris, why??.
Both Tempe and Atlanta have built a beautiful urban infrastructure with tall business and residential buildings that are generally structured as 3-7 stories of vehicle storage, possibly underground, and a bunch of greatness stacked above.
Tempe is headed toward the worst commutes south of the border, and Atlanta is already there.
Yeah, I haven't mentioned something here. Deh Efe has it and it doesn't matter. Tempe at least has that freight track it will eventually commandeer. Because of city fragmentation, and some uh residual social issues, Atlanta is a lost cause. The future is very, very stupid.
I'm not a transit expert, but I do love to ride the trains.
job search, places to live, lowest crime areas, good food, etc
https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Atlanta-Ar...
https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Au...
https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/San-Franci...
That shows Austin median at 62% of SF, FWIW.
we all win with the services and products these companies offer, and that's why they can do that.
Miami isn't even a blip on the "where people are going" radar statistically, but the hype and anecdotes could always make it a reality long-term. I have my doubts, personally.
[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/People-are-leavi...
I have to disagree, after living in West Midtown Atlanta for the past 3 years. There's one large park (Piedmont) downtown, but beyond that I have to drive 30mins-1hour for any park of comparable size.
+ Text internationalization system
+ Payment processing
+ User auth
+ User verification
+ A/B testing system
+ User metrics collection from UI
+ offline storage of said metrics
+ data pipelines to process stored offline storage
+ iOS app
+ android app
+ Image storage and caching infra
+ fraud detection
+ search ranking and indexing
https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/airbnb-engineering-inf...
I don't see why the argument is about spending 100% of one's salary. We all spend a percentage of our salaries on things like rent, etc, and that percentage is going to be larger in Seattle than Columbia.
"Making $236k in seattle is going to be much more fruitful than making $115k in whatever flyover place. this argument is always used by people that need to justify living in their boring towns"
Imagine unironically calling towns that aren't Seattle, "boring". Alright, chief. Columbia certainly isn't Chicago (my birthplace), but that doesn't make it boring either. People have their reasons for electing to live in different areas, no need to be condescending about it. Yes, $236k is mathematically higher than $115k, this is no surprise to anyone. However that $115k usually goes a lot further in smaller towns than $236k might in Seattle. ...due to differences in cost of living (and the housing market).
"every cost of living calculator assumes you spend 100% of your paycheck on cost of living. "
Basic googling disproves this. Of the cost of living calculators that I looked at, they just listed basic things like school, transportation, gas, etc, and make comparisons between areas. Nothing saying that you need to spend 100% of your salary.
If you drive 30-60 minutes you get to dozens of bike and hiking trails in big parks.
Not to mention all the trees everywhere and pocket parks.
The parks aren’t necessarily the best in the world or anything, but there’s lots of space and more than most major cities. One thing is that the parks aren’t built up around very much like other cities.
Racial diversity and the mixes of culture are one of the big upsides, I think and are pretty rare (compare racial diversity in Bay Area and Seattle and Atlanta).
Also Atlanta has been a hub for lgbtq culture for decades. Not the same as Bay Area or NY but probably #3.
Maybe you had some bad experiences or it’s your company.
(it's also worth mentioning that for my first 1.5 years in Atlanta, I couldn't even afford a car, so my options were limited to Piedmont Park and the Georgia Tech campus)
In rush hour traffic from the Atlantic Station area, according to Google Maps:
Grant Park: 26min drive Centennial Olympic Park: 15min drive (I did go there all the time but it's not really a park? plus tons of car noise nearby) Freedom Park: 34min drive Candler Park: 28min drive Chastain Park: 28min drive
I'd occasionally go to the park along Collier Road or to Memorial Park (both 15-20min drive in traffic), but both are surrounded by deadlocked rush hour traffic for most of the afternoon.
I think the lesson is maybe that I should've chosen to live in the Little 5 Points area or somewhere east of Piedmont, but that would mean sacrificing my ~5min bicycle commute to the Georgia Tech campus where I was going to school at the time.
In the end Atlanta's car culture really grated on me, so I left.
That said, I think Atlanta is on a positive trajectory. I'm excited to see how the Microsoft campus impacts the western part of the city. I imagine in 15-20 years it could be a really appealing city.
I think a huge element has to be the success of SxSW. That has given a lot of people the personal positive exposure to Austin that makes them think moving there is plausible.
Genuine question - how does this compare to other industries in the city? If AAs are underrepresented in tech in Atlanta, I imagine that part of this is caused by the same problems faced by AAs in other white-collar jobs. How much of it is a problem with tech specifically?
Traffic is really horrible in Atlanta but I was able to plan around it so that it didn’t bother me much. But I would never think of distance against rush hour unless I had a specific reason. So while it may suck to drive during rush hour to get to a park, just don’t do that. Traffic is dead at 6am and is fine until 330 or after 7. Even a block from Piedmont park, I don’t think I ever went there except mornings, evenings, and weekends. This is different from other cities where there’s just no getting around traffic.
Living in midtown (or anywhere) without a car is hard, but there’s lots of cities that also require cars but don’t have so many parks and outdoor stuff.
There’s definitely a car culture and that’s a downside, but there are lots of parks.
JFK you have to walk and bus between terminals. DeGaulle you have to bus to planes. LAX you have to walk between terminals.
ATL’s plane train means you’re always 10 minutes away from any terminal. And at least Marta runs into the airport. Atlanta public transport sucks but at least it’s to the airport. It’s weird how many cities don’t have trains going to the airport.
I’m not sure there’s any airport close to busy that works this well. I prefer smaller airports where you can just walk in (OAK, FLL) but they don’t have as many flights to places.
Houston is also far more diverse, which directly impacts art, culture, and dining specifically.
Much of the same about art, culture, and dining also applies to Dallas.
Tech firms underperform massively on this metric compared to other local industries (law, accounting, general Fortune 500s like Home Depot/Delta/UPS).
That said, tech firms in Atlanta in general have more African Americans than do similar firms in e.g. Austin or SV.
If I'm African American, Atlanta is a better place for me to get hired and promoted in tech than other tech hubs. My suspicion is that the fact that managers live in Atlanta normalizes for them the notion that African Americans can excel at white-collar work, so biases that exist everywhere are somewhat reduced here.
The Pros > relatively newer, affordable housing > decent weather > good public schools > there is room for my young kids to grow in the suburbs > It is green (love the tree cover), though the locals don't seem to care and keep chopping down the trees with no remorse. > not prone to earth quakes, forest fires and gets plenty of rainfall. > Plenty of trails, lakes. You can get to a beach in 5 hours (Hilton Head, Destin etc)
The Cons > Salaries are lower and yes roles are stack specific > Opportunities are limited. > Mindset > Traffic
If I had the means to buy a home at any of the tech centers, I would have not moved. It is always a good idea to stay close to the mother ship(HQ). The network effect of companies attracting engineers and other way around will always work.
I remember one time arriving to Hartsfield just an hour before my flight was supposed to take off, saw that the TSA line spilled out into the entrance area of the airport (due to half the security checkpoints being closed for whatever reason), and, at this point, I've made my peace with missing the flight. Just 10 mins later, I got to the front of the TSA line.
The way they managed to unwrangle such a huge line was impressive, and it instantly reminded me of Chick-fil-a at the Georgia Tech student center building. Every time I got to it, I would see a line of 20-30 students, but it never took me more than 10 mins to get my food (from the moment I joined the line, to the moment I walked out).
"$150k in Austin equates to $236k in Seattle (knock off 35%) $150k in Austin equates to $296k in SF Bay (knock off 50%)"
That literally only makes sense if you're using 100% of your salary for cost of living. This is what you're responding to.
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/26/forget-abo...
[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tech-flight-w...
[3] https://news.crunchbase.com/news/why-miami-is-the-next-hot-t...
[4] https://www.wired.com/story/miami-mayor-woos-techies-what-do...
[5] https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/miami-mayor-pushes-si...
Further, look at real estate prices for the area. The markers are there, just need to look for it.
The links you provided are 5 opinion pieces that don't even try to quantify anything (seriously, I don't see any actual data points in any of them), with a few of them seeming to just be blatant PR placements by Suarez. That's not a bad move, to be clear, it's really savvy! Just objectively not proof of anything except exactly what you were replying to: hype and anecdotes.
Again, the Miami migration could totally happen and/or be happening! But I haven't seen any data that currently supports that, and until I do I remain skeptical that it's much more than loud Twitter voices and a shrewd Mayor.