zlacker

[parent] [thread] 56 comments
1. logica+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-01-29 18:16:34
Nuance is hard to convey in groups, but I believe that *a small part of the problem is a lack of design*. Many peoples' eyes glaze over when they see a wall of text in an email and they just skim rather than read. Some simple things to enhance communications can be the following.

* Use a few bullet points to put attention on the main points you want to convey.

* Without going overboard, use a tasteful amount of graphic design (bolding one key sentence or whatever).

* Break up a giant nuanced email into sections.

* If something is critical, make it visual: a picture, explainer video, or an infographic can be really useful for something key.

This is harder than it looks. A quote attributed to Mark Twain is "I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead." It's a lot easier to go overboard than to distill what needs to be conveyed into the core elements.

replies(14): >>hirund+X1 >>paviva+o8 >>travis+9b >>mcguir+Sc >>bmurph+2h >>jollyb+ql >>civili+Oq >>Groxx+vy >>splitt+OD >>Aeolun+hH >>lansti+rU >>Pamar+aX >>dkarl+l71 >>chrisc+4R1
2. hirund+X1[view] [source] 2022-01-29 18:29:56
>>logica+(OP)
I've frequently seen bullet points being treated exactly the way the author describes AND being treated: A reader will seize on a particular bullet and treat it in isolation, as if the other points didn't exist, nuance shredded. They're still useful but unmagical.
3. paviva+o8[view] [source] 2022-01-29 19:04:42
>>logica+(OP)
The quote is from Pascal: "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte", "I made this one [the letter] longer, since I didn't have the leisure to make it shorter".
replies(1): >>karate+u9
◧◩
4. karate+u9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 19:13:16
>>paviva+o8
In the spirit of generosity, I'll assume that was a very sly joke, and not an ironic misunderstanding of the point of the comment and the original post. Nice, I see what you did there!
replies(2): >>capabl+pa >>Brian_+Tg
◧◩◪
5. capabl+pa[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 19:18:17
>>karate+u9
I don't think it's a joke, it's a correction of attribution. The quote seems to have been attributed to a lot of people, but earliest mention of similar message is indeed from Blaise Pascal, see https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/
replies(1): >>slavik+9k
6. travis+9b[view] [source] 2022-01-29 19:23:35
>>logica+(OP)
Appropriately, this doesn’t address the essence of the tweets. With two goals, people will use one as an excuse for the other. They’re receiving the communication. Lists and graphics won’t change that.
replies(2): >>pas+xu >>thauma+6L
7. mcguir+Sc[view] [source] 2022-01-29 19:34:43
>>logica+(OP)
How much do you want to bet most people will read your first bullet point, ignore the rest, and drop all the nuance?

Hell, I've learned not to ask more than one question in an email. The first one is the only one to get answered.

replies(12): >>evanco+8d >>jodrel+Ie >>mpalcz+ph >>soneca+gi >>crispy+Pj >>nathan+zo >>889135+Is >>dirtsi+vx >>evouga+fA >>TheOth+aC >>jopsen+7L >>BeFlat+rO6
◧◩
8. evanco+8d[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 19:36:54
>>mcguir+Sc
If you put a list of bulleted, single-sentence questions and clearly state at the top something like “please answer the below questions” you will get your answers. Just have to make it really explicit and obvious that you expect each one answered
replies(1): >>XorNot+oj
◧◩
9. jodrel+Ie[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 19:49:06
>>mcguir+Sc
This is so often said, and so bloody ridiculous a state of affairs for the information technology industry.

How hard would it be to have a shared todo list where the team can put every blocking question which needs answering, and everyone who needs to answer can either do that or delegate the decision or approve skipping it? (And I don't mean a sluggish Jira / Electron / Teams / helpdesk which needs 50,000 fields entered to raise a ticket, either).

I suspect it isn't done because nobody can usefully make all the decisions which other people want to push off onto other people, it would take inhuman amounts of time and attention. And that part of the reason "answering only the first question" happens is to drop most questions on the floor, with the idea that important ones will be raised again, as a way to filter out the huge number of unimportant questions. And as a way to deal with the fact that answering one question can change all subsequent questions - if the answer is "that's waiting on finance approval" then it might be about to have a budget cut, or be cancelled, or be delayed until a new financial year, and answering other questions is a waste of time.

Still, for when the other questions are needed, it should be something computer people, programmers, IT specialists, can have machines keep track of without absolutely awful interfaces - and maybe involving automated email and replies if needed, like forum posts and newsgroups have had for decades.

replies(2): >>XorNot+9j >>lazide+nr
◧◩◪
10. Brian_+Tg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:06:26
>>karate+u9
That was not an example of dropping nuance.
11. bmurph+2h[view] [source] 2022-01-29 20:07:39
>>logica+(OP)
Here ya go: https://hbr.org/2016/11/how-to-write-email-with-military-pre...
◧◩
12. mpalcz+ph[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:10:26
>>mcguir+Sc
Frequently the cause is too many bullet points.
◧◩
13. soneca+gi[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:16:38
>>mcguir+Sc
I agree, but I don’t think is necessarily the “first” bullet point or question that gets attention. It’s the one the reader cares most (positively or negatively), or it’s easier to understand/answer.
◧◩◪
14. XorNot+9j[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:21:35
>>jodrel+Ie
You've sort of hit on the missing interface in both email and (in my experience) pull requests: I need a system to keep track of the list of things I want to send, but keep it private to me so as it's dealt with by the other party, the next item goes out.

(for PRs its the joy of having a sequence of dependent changes, and needing to make sure people review them step by step even though the whole packet is done).

◧◩◪
15. XorNot+oj[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:23:02
>>evanco+8d
Managers, or really anybody higher then you in the hierarchy, will still ignore the rest of the questions. Remember there's no consequences that they can perceive for only sending you a third of an answer.
◧◩
16. crispy+Pj[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:25:55
>>mcguir+Sc
> ...read your first bullet point, ignore the rest, and drop all the nuance?

Oh hell yes, this is definitely a thing with lots of people. It's one of those WTF realizations that everyone who works in a corporate environment gets slapped in the face with really hard.

There are certain people for which you MUST give 1, maybe 2 sentences at a maximum, address them by name, AND, make sure that they're the only person in the "to:" field. Anything different and you risk ghosting or first-thing-only response.

If there's other folks in the cc who I know may actually read for context, I will add a '"*** details ***"' separator after a few blank lines and then write up normal paragraphs. I know the "details" stuff will get ignored by the target, but that's OK. It's just there for reference and for others who may chime in.

replies(2): >>dheera+Kw >>Aerroo+xK
◧◩◪◨
17. slavik+9k[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:28:37
>>capabl+pa
Quote Investigator is a gem. There's another page[1] on a similar quote:

> If it is a ten-minute speech it takes me all of two weeks to prepare it; if it is a half-hour speech it takes me a week; if I can talk as long as I want to it requires no preparation at all. I am ready now.

~ Woodrow Wilson, as quoted in The Operative Miller 23

[1]: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/01/short-speech/

18. jollyb+ql[view] [source] 2022-01-29 20:37:09
>>logica+(OP)
Those are good, but the big overarching rules are:

1) Assume no prior knowledge of a situation.

2) Provide some context for intent, objectives etc..

3) Greatly simplify the thrust of the message and initially provided only the most highly relevant details.

If you do that - then 'everything else is a detail' - meaning, if someone has a basic understanding of what the situation is, they can go into detail as needed.

If context is not provided, people have no idea what is going on and their professionalism, conscientiousness and curiosity is wasted.

I like the AMZN approach but I'll gather it could be done in a different way.

◧◩
19. nathan+zo[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 20:55:24
>>mcguir+Sc
I’m not trying to out myself as an unnuanced consumer of communication, but I literally did just that reading the parent comment. I wonder what is the percentage of the HN audience that did that
20. civili+Oq[view] [source] 2022-01-29 21:08:44
>>logica+(OP)
I wouldn't dream of sending an email of more than a few sentences without breaking into sections. In longer messages I will also use highlighter to emphasize 1-3 key sentences and move supporting details to an appendix, footnotes, or links.

But there are some people you can't get through to, no matter what.

◧◩◪
21. lazide+nr[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:12:15
>>jodrel+Ie
You can’t solve a lack of executive function/decision making capacity (which is what we’re referring to) by making more work/queuing up bullshit work. It will result in everyone just ignoring anything that smells like coming from such a system.

Since (almost) no one wants to admit they don’t have enough decision making capacity or can’t prioritize using it for whatever you’re asking (at least now a days it seems, since someone will post them saying they don’t care on social media and they’ll get fired), you will often see defacto rate limiting or pushback in other ways.

Common ways you’ll see in real life:

- only responding to the one item they want to respond to.

- ever increasing delays in responses or ‘missed emails’ (when you try again they’ll respond)

- half responses which don’t actually address the problem or answer your question (but are easy to generate).

- redirection to another - hard to reach - authority even if not appropriate (as they aren’t spending the time to figure out what your actual question is)

- straw manning your question/request as something else they already have an answer to and then answering that.

- adding your question/request to a backlog they aren’t responsible for and then ignoring it forever since it’s now ‘on the list’

- making up increasingly more complicated paperwork/procedure hoops with increasingly less pleasant user experiences

And many more. For non-decision making backlogs/overloads, there are also the

- ‘decades long queue’ method of shedding load like the old eastern bloc (and some healthcare systems)

- ‘you need a permit’ (but there is no actual perform form)

-‘we only work during (impossible hours here)’ etc.

It all boils down to they can’t care enough to get you want you want, so you either have to make them care (which will be met with generally well earned hostility), or find a way to get them to care (which may be impossible). In many countries, getting someone to care requires a bribe.

replies(3): >>yesena+YL >>spookt+NM >>s58065+R52
◧◩
22. 889135+Is[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:19:51
>>mcguir+Sc
It's easier to consider this question with empathy: imagine times where you replied to emails partially, answering some (one), but not all questions. Ask yourself why you did a partial reply. Then, when you ask questions of others, apply those learnings.

For me, I tend to 'jump' to the first answer that comes to mind, without reading the full nuance, likely because I'm optimizing at replying sooner, so I can move onto the next task, because I have many tasks I need to do. I quickly pattern match and move on.

replies(1): >>tharku+Lw
◧◩
23. pas+xu[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:30:30
>>travis+9b
Isn't OKRs and other systems supposed to solve this?

Don't communicate weightless, measureless, abstract fluff. Give clear goals, a utility function to combine them, deadlines or other time incentives (discounting or bonuses for being early), gather feedback, align with personal affinity, break down responsibility between groups (SREs, infra and platform teams provide the reliability, others build on that).

Set budgets and fix the constraints, draw up the solution space and let the people work.

It's not a mystery.

◧◩◪
24. dheera+Kw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:43:25
>>crispy+Pj
Also I auto-filter bcc'ed e-mails and if your e-mail has a tracking pixel in it (e.g. from Superhuman or some such), it will get deprioritized because I don't believe in privacy invasion attempts. (Also, your tracking pixel will be blocked so it won't work anyway.)
◧◩◪
25. tharku+Lw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:43:25
>>889135+Is

    imagine times where you replied to emails partially
It will be hard for someone that always replies to the first thing only to empathize with this but: This has literally never happened to me. As in, I have never replied partially to something in an email. You will get an answer to each of your items. Granted, you may not get the answer you were looking for but I will answer each and every one, even if it's just a "I will have to look into this one and get back to you" so that the other 6 items can get answered right away.

Why do the thorough people always have to empathize and not the other way around?

replies(3): >>889135+lz >>gkop+Az >>zestyp+AQ
◧◩
26. dirtsi+vx[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 21:48:23
>>mcguir+Sc
A major factor in this is a lack of willingness to take the time to understand something, possibly rooted in a meta-failure: not understanding that it takes time to understand things! There's various motivating forces that impel us to race along to the next thing instead of taking a little bit to absorb something, think about it, or discuss it.
27. Groxx+vy[view] [source] 2022-01-29 21:57:51
>>logica+(OP)
And your very first line of text should say who it is for, and why they should care.

Help your readers triage. They already get too many emails.

◧◩◪◨
28. 889135+lz[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 22:03:59
>>tharku+Lw
I don't think this is practically much different then answering one thing. If you give one answer and 3 "I'll get back to you on that"'s-- this creates a promise of a future asynchronous answer, which is only as good as your word. People often have too many tasks, so to get those remaining items on your queue, they'll have to ask you again.

As the recipient, it's more challenging to receive the future promise of an answer with no SLA.

replies(2): >>tharku+wG >>robrya+dU
◧◩◪◨
29. gkop+Az[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 22:05:20
>>tharku+Lw
What’s the opportunity cost of your thoroughness?
replies(1): >>tharku+uH
◧◩
30. evouga+fA[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 22:08:57
>>mcguir+Sc
I’m rapidly approaching the “email singularity” where it would take me more time to answer one email than the average time between incoming emails.

If I receive an email and it’s something I can quickly answer on my phone while waiting for the bus etc., I’ll do so and you’ll get a quick answer. If the email requires me to sit down and compose a long response (or worse, read a paper, or find and run some code) the email gets put on a priority queue to deal with during dedicated email-answering time.

If I receive an email with multiple questions, and one of them I can answer quickly, I might fire off a partial answer (under the theory that a partial answer now is preferable to a complete answer much later).

replies(1): >>Cederf+qN
◧◩
31. TheOth+aC[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 22:22:25
>>mcguir+Sc
Yes, it's very strange.

I had this recently with something I wanted to order online. I asked two questions, the second was answered, the first was ignored. So I had to send a second email to ask the first question again.

I'm really curious if it's a symptom of limited modern attention spans, or if you'd find the same issue in vintage hand-written letters.

replies(1): >>bentco+ZL
32. splitt+OD[view] [source] 2022-01-29 22:35:49
>>logica+(OP)
I started to follow this approach [1] 5 years ago and it is amazing how much clearer my own thoughts in communication have become.

1. Subjects with keywords. The subject clearly states the purpose of the email, and specifically, what you want them to do with your note. Keywords: ACTION, SIGN, INFO, DECISION, REQUEST, COORD

2. Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF). Lead your emails with a short, staccato statement that declares the purpose of the email and action required. The BLUF should quickly answer the five W’s: who, what, where, when, and why. An effective BLUF distills the most important information for the reader.

3. Be economical. Short emails are more effective than long ones, so try to fit all content in one pane, so the recipient doesn’t have to scroll. Use active voice, so it’s clear who is doing the action. If an email requires more explanation, you should list background information after the BLUF as bullet points so that recipients can quickly grasp your message. Link to attachments rather than attaching files. This will likely provide the most recent version of a file. Also, the site will verify that the recipient has the right security credentials to see the file, and you don’t inadvertently send a file to someone who isn’t permitted to view it.

===

[1] https://hbr.org/2016/11/how-to-write-email-with-military-pre...

◧◩◪◨⬒
33. tharku+wG[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 22:55:33
>>889135+lz
I would be to differ. To me, there is a large difference between just ignoring 6 out of 7 questions I asked you or you telling me that you do not know the answer right now but will get back to me.

I agree that if there's no explicitly stated SLA and no implicit SLA given the relationship history between the two of us (e.g. I might know you're usually going to get back to me within 24 hours on such items), then this is practically the same.

I do not operate under such circumstances though. If I tell you that I will get back to you, then I will get back to you within a reasonable time frame and you will know from our previous interactions that I'm good for it in most cases and that it's totally OK for you to ask again after a day because I might have forgotten. I'm not perfect.

Since this was an example answer only, it is also possible that for one of your 7 questions the answer will simply be that I cannot get that answer to you within any reasonable amount of time at this point because of other priorities I have and that you should find someone else or I might point you towards someone else. In any case, you will have all of your 7 points answered. I won't just ignore them.

34. Aeolun+hH[view] [source] 2022-01-29 23:02:23
>>logica+(OP)
> Without going overboard, use a tasteful amount of graphic design (bolding one key sentence or whatever).

When this happens it screams corporate communication / fluff piece to me, and I generally skip it entirely.

What would help more is if we didn’t get so much pointless information in our mailbox.

replies(1): >>xmprt+iL
◧◩◪◨⬒
35. tharku+uH[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:03:45
>>gkop+Az
That will depend on circumstances obviously ;)

I also never said that I will answer your questions right away. Just that I will answer all 7 of them once I do reply. The opportunity cost of looking at my email inbox might be way too high at a particular moment and so I might not even see your message for a full day to begin with. Same w/ a slack message. I might not see your particular message for some time or I might see it and decide that it's not a message I can deal with on the side while in a meeting and mark it for later consumption e.g. for when the meeting ends early etc.

FWIW I've so far never seen anyone try to 'use' my thoroughness to create a denial of service attack against me. If that ever did happen, I would definitely change my stance. But it won't be to answer the first question each time. It would be to stop talking to them. Like I ignore any "Hi, can I ask you a question?" messages. Even some directors have tried that and just gotten ignored (first time someone does it, I will let them know they can just ask away. Second time they get ignored until they learn).

replies(1): >>gkop+3K
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
36. gkop+3K[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:23:41
>>tharku+uH
Have you ever faced a volume of questions that you could not reasonably answer to the degree of thoroughness you prefer? How did you deal with it? I mean, you mention at least one tactic in the sibling thread, but what I don’t understand is your apparent unwillingness to attenuate your thoroughness based on circumstances. Probably I am taking you too literally, but am curious, is your position absolute?

(I too appreciate thoroughness, but also believe that for some things in business “worse is better”. IE 90% thoroughness might cost 1/10th as much as 99% thoroughness, it’s certainly possible to over-index on the quality of the answers one provides)

You asked

> Why do the thorough people always have to empathize and not the other way around?

“Answers questions thoroughly” is a behavior, not part of a person’s identity. If someone gives you a partial answer, that may be optimal behavior for the circumstances, you don’t know, that’s where the empathy comes in. Of course empathy should be mutual, but you can’t be blocked on that to obtain a favorable business outcome. Empathy is a tool in your toolbox.

replies(1): >>tharku+uO
◧◩◪
37. Aerroo+xK[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:27:10
>>crispy+Pj
Perhaps those people have just read too many emails in the past that ended up being a waste of their time? Over time they learned to glance at things and predict what the rest of the email is going to say.

Think about those download websites where you have to find the download link in the middle of all the ads that are masquerading as download buttons. There's a lot of information on those pages, but people become really adept at spotting the real download button. The rest of the information gets ignored.

I think this is why some people insist on verbal communication when you're trying to teach them something. If they get a text guide then they will gloss over things and skip steps leading to failure. With verbal communication you're effectively there to keep them at least mildly focused so that they don't gloss over things.

replies(2): >>BeFlat+Iy2 >>crispy+x45
◧◩
38. thauma+6L[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:31:54
>>travis+9b
> With two goals, people will use one as an excuse for the other.

That's a necessary part of having more than one goal. If they weren't in conflict, you'd only have one goal.

◧◩
39. jopsen+7L[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:31:55
>>mcguir+Sc
Nah, I think people will pick the bullet point that suits them best, ignore the rest, and drop all nuance..

- Don't pick the first bullet point, pick the best :)

◧◩
40. xmprt+iL[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:33:20
>>Aeolun+hH
Somewhat agree. If something is so long that it requires bolding or graphic design to bring out the main point, then it's probably better off shortening it or adding a TL;DR at the top.
◧◩◪◨
41. yesena+YL[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:38:34
>>lazide+nr
I'd read every comment on the page, but when I got down to your bullet points, don't know why but my eyes glazed over and I stopped reading anything, and just started scrolling quickly down the page. Then I realized the irony of this happening in a thread about ignoring bullet points!
replies(1): >>lazide+u3d
◧◩◪
42. bentco+ZL[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:38:40
>>TheOth+aC
IMO, there's two things that make this harder than it should be:

1. People tend to skim and a question could be lost even in a two-sentence paragraph.

2. Email's structure means people tend to reply "at the tip" and branching conversations are difficult to understand.

Contributing to this latter problem are:

a. SMTP (to/cc are too flexible, each message is it's own "thing")

b. POP (deep conversations are just a stack of messages some people may not have the "original" and can't easily reply higher up the tree without breaking client threading)

c. Email client visualization of message threads are generally bad. I haven't seen a single client do this well. Outlook can, but out of the box has a very "flat" view.

---

So, people tend to read at the bottom and if someone missed something early in a thread you have no chance of getting it addressed a few messages in.

IMO something more akin to newsgroups or even reddit/HN tree-view threads could be a better fit for business discussions, but I haven't seen anybody try it.

◧◩◪◨
43. spookt+NM[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:44:41
>>lazide+nr
Oh man those bullet points hit home. I think I’ve done all of them at some point!
◧◩◪
44. Cederf+qN[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:48:44
>>evouga+fA
When doing the latter, do you at least explicitly acknowledge that there are other questions you have ignored and may or may not come back to?
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
45. tharku+uO[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-29 23:55:31
>>gkop+3K
Yes I have had that problem and still have it from time to time. Like you said, I mentioned one way to deal with it in the sibling thread. What has also happened in some cases is that I had to de-prioritize other things that I had on my plate because the questions were more important at that time.

Maybe it's not entirely clear what I mean with thoroughness here. I am talking about not just ignoring someone's questions. It doesn't mean that if you "ask" me to answer 7 questions that will each take a day of work to answer that I will be "thorough and do those 7 things immediately to get you your answer". I will simply ensure that I read all your 7 questions and tell you that each will take me about a day to answer as it would require certain checks and that I do not have the time for that at the moment. However, if your questions are so urgent vs. the other things I have on my plate, you are welcome to talk to my boss/my product owner/etc on getting your items prioritized higher. I have a finite amount of time per day that I do work and while the exact amount can vary from time to time I will not start working 80 hour weeks or start ignoring your questions.

◧◩◪◨
46. zestyp+AQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-30 00:12:14
>>tharku+Lw
I applaud you. This is the standard I try to live up to and want my teammates to aspire to.
◧◩◪◨⬒
47. robrya+dU[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-30 00:39:17
>>889135+lz
The difference is as a sender I would know that you parsed each of my questions, understood them and decided to either not answer them now or just never answer them. Replying to one is ambiguous, if it was actually important it just leads to having to follow up again, restating everything that wasn't acknowledged.
48. lansti+rU[view] [source] 2022-01-30 00:41:11
>>logica+(OP)
When ever I am working on some large project that involves others, I spend a lot of time searching for the slogans that capture the weighted average of the nuanced meaning. Simple and almost all applicable.
49. Pamar+aX[view] [source] 2022-01-30 00:59:17
>>logica+(OP)
Nitpick: the quote about making a letter longer is usually attributed to Pascal: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/
50. dkarl+l71[view] [source] 2022-01-30 02:10:32
>>logica+(OP)
Discrete sections, bullet points, infographics, and a touch of graphic design: that's PowerPoint. The advice I always get for PowerPoint is to delete everything in the slightly smaller font that "nobody reads anyway," so I think you're still limited to the amount of nuance you can fit into a few bullet points, unless those infographics are doing an awful lot of work.
51. chrisc+4R1[view] [source] 2022-01-30 11:15:31
>>logica+(OP)
I really like that quote. It seems like it would work just as well for programmers too: "I didn't have time to write a 100 SLOC, so I wrote 1000."
◧◩◪◨
52. s58065+R52[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-30 13:10:49
>>lazide+nr
Sometimes the other party will happily oblige with your request, but only after a totally vacuous phone call that serves absolutely no purpose other than (i) signalling how much effort the other party is spending on you (ii) punishing you with synchronous communication so as to limit your potential request rate.
replies(1): >>lazide+53d
◧◩◪◨
53. BeFlat+Iy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-30 16:46:15
>>Aerroo+xK
> If they get a text guide then they will gloss over things and skip steps leading to failure.

I find this to be very true when learning new programming techniques. Most learning resources start from a significantly more basic starting point than most learners are at, so I'm liable to skip until I start seeing things I don't already know how to guess. The problem is that there are often important subtleties buried amidst the obvious knowledge.

◧◩◪◨
54. crispy+x45[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-31 14:36:41
>>Aerroo+xK
> Perhaps those people have just read too many emails in the past that ended up being a waste of their time?

I am sure that's often the case but I still find it rude and dismissive.

In the end it doesn't really matter for me as long as I can get my point/request across in a sentence or two (and cover my ass with an "optional" details section).

You're absolutely right that voice or face-to-face is essential for certain communication.

◧◩
55. BeFlat+rO6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-01-31 21:49:52
>>mcguir+Sc
I've definitely been that person to ask four bulleted questions in an e-mail and then send a reply asking where the answers for the other three are after I get a response that only addresses one of them.
◧◩◪◨⬒
56. lazide+53d[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-02 15:33:02
>>s58065+R52
Wonderful! On reflection a bit on these, I also wonder if it’s a type of demand for payment from the other party too - a ‘give me an ego boost/social capital payment, and I’ll pay attention to your request’ type thing. A bribe with your time and discomfort maybe?
◧◩◪◨⬒
57. lazide+u3d[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-02 15:34:25
>>yesena+YL
Haha, amen.

Near as I can tell, we’ve all been deluding ourselves about our own human natures too. Nearly everyone is exhausted and on the edge of burnout.

It causes predictable behaviors in everyone. Trying harder to make it not true just makes the inevitable reckoning worse.

[go to top]