BankID in Sweden and similar in other European countries.
Cash is positioned as suspicious. In 10 years, it might very well be illegal.
Kicking banks off the internet/apps would make Android and Apple less cushy.
Here's my attempt at future history: Firstly they'll require you to prove your current location, to ensure that the request isn't made by a remote hacker; they'll do this by integrating their own cellular modem, as well as scanning local wi-fi networks. Then, at a second phase, they'll integrate a camera and microphone to perform a face identification, asking you to speak out a particular phrase while performing a particular motion. At the start they'll only require you to turn the mic and camera on during active usage, but eventually they'll say that these have to stay on continuously so that they can ensure that the device wasn't tempered with. And if we aren't careful, we'll accept every single small added requirement, until we're boiled alive.
That sounds... fine? Like... there are actually alternatives. Sure, if their plan is to phase out those alternatives, then that's bad, but... the current situation seems fine?
It's not relinquishing control, but separation of concerns for hardware.
Bank should manage their hardware, not your hardware.
Now the phone is running stock firmware from 2020, with Android security patches from 2020, and with numerous publicly known vulnerabilities. The banks work fine, Google Pay works fine, every Play Integrity check passes, even the strongest one (device integrity).
The only reason I see for it being implemented this way is not to lock the bad guys out from your phone, but to prevent you from doing anything to the banking applications, even through it is still possible through said vulnerabilities.
One of said banks also refuses to run if it detects remote assistance clients on your phone (like TeamViewer), or even Discord, because apparently these were used in scams over the past few years, and we need to protect even the stupidest at the expense of everyone else. How did we come to this "future"? The worst days of desktop Windows weren't even remotely close to this nonsense.
The last one applies in my country. You can of course go to the bank branch for every little financial operation, which is bad enough by itself for us living in cities, but is practically impossible for my relatives in the rural area, who would have to drive 100 km to the nearest bank branch, and then back just to move some money between two accounts.
Even if you don't care for anyone else but your country, it will come to you also, I promise.
Forcing you to use foreign megacorps for essential services should be illegal if not already.
> the banks/governments give the people devices to use for these things,
The devices will cost "a reasonable amount" and have GPS tracking "for your safety".
Okay, I guess more to the point, I don't want the banking app forcing the OS that I use. They can provide their own damn hardware!
The only realistic thing left for me is moaning about it on the ole 'net and hoping (probably in vain) that this disease doesn't spread further to other countries. Western democracies are already in the process of copying several bad ideas we implemented 10+ years ago (and China more than 20 years ago), I don't see a reason why this also wouldn't be ported over.
And the digital sovereignty argument doesn't really work, one of the banks uses its own payment system — mostly copied from Chinese AliPay — and it's the most popular one here. Zero dependence on "the West" other than the phones themselves, where they think they have an alternative in Huawei and friends, and you're gonna have to depend on someone in any case, even just for internet infrastructure, or even cash printing machines.
Know Your Customer is acceptable. Nanny Your Customer is not.
A smartphone today is the most essential and private thing you have. This is as far from "zero dependence" as you can get.
> they think they have an alternative in Huawei and friends
Do Huawei phones work for banking in your country? If yes, does it mean, Google Play / integrity isn't necessary?
However, if it sits at home in a drawer, it can keep its camera on all it likes, transmitting images of darkness, and tell the bank repeatedly where your home address is, and sometimes (when in use) confirm what your face looks like. Not a privacy issue I think?
Probably it would become expected that you carry the thing around and it replaces cash and cards, but that seems to me to be the crucial step if it's going to have meaningful potential for spying.
sorry, we can't do anything for you then
So, like, legislate it?
Prior art exists on this point.
> Forcing you to use foreign megacorps for essential services should be illegal if not already.
The only two major mobile operating systems are developed by American companies. The two most popular global payment processors are maintained by American companies. The hardware is jointly developed by a bunch of countries, basically all of them in North America and Western Europe.
If one brings up digital sovereignty, should I think not of "the West", but of Tokelau, South Africa, or Brazil?
I can't see them changing this in the foreseeable future, major parts of their userbase run the cheapest phones one can buy, and they're much more interested in as much data as possible, so near 100% device coverage has to be important for them.
Rooted. Usually with unlocked bootloader. Safe.
Also phones on Android 9 unpatched since 2009. Etc.
:)
Nobody's willing to pay for it, so only Google, who have to do this for a bunch of other reasons, actually does it.
On the contrary, governments are imposing other restrictions on OS'es (like EU Chat directive), as well as making more and more critical government functions (like eID, and the various equivalents, and the banks) that can never work without OS certification, are utterly dependent on the App stores (it requires the ability to replace apps on user's devices without being detected), and thereby driving people deeper into Google and Apple's arms. Despite the fact that this makes the EU totally dependent on yet another US company, making this stupid. And, of course, it makes securing anyone in the EU against US spying an exercise in futility.
But it saves a little bit of money now, and gives the US, ie. Trump, yet another loaded gun aimed at the head of the EU economy. What could possibly go wrong?
Sell your airbus stock.
business account can request such devices so if any malicious people cant withdraw funds without pressing a same combination in all devices (there are multiple devices) so there is no rogue employee
There's also systems like PaySafeCard, which is accepted by Steam.
CBDCs solve this in theory, but the government would add the requirement back just for funsies.
It's also Deep Web, not Open Web.
Furthermore, it's US-based, with an unknown amount of Tencent backing, going back to before even its creation.
Those devices have no network, no connectity, no gps, and no interface besides a tiny 7-segment lcd display and some 0-9 buttons for pincode entry.
They even have Linux versions:
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/warsaw
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/warsaw-bin
Who even knows what this malware does? I sure as hell don't want to find out.
For the bank, things like "fraud prevention" override literally everything. There is no limit they wouldn't cross and there is no freedom they wouldn't trample in the pursuit of their goals.
People get so mad about kernel-level anti cheat in video games, but when your bank does it, I've never heard of it before. I sure am glad my bank doesn't do this for now.
They think everything they do is justified and necessary. They've got a "legitimate" reason to do it so it's alright. Because total nonsense like fraud prevention is totally worth giving up our freedom for.