zlacker

Also, use ATMs if you can instead. Don't use propietary code on your own machine; run it on theirs instead.

>>1gn15+(OP)
I don't understand the sentiment - how does relinquishing control of the hardware help us? I see a possible future where the banks/governments give the people devices to use for these things, and I don't like this future, as these would surely become spy instruments.

>>falcor+61
It sounds like an implementation of the Orwell's 1984 telescreen

>>1gn15+(OP)
ATM's are disapearing. There used to be one at every corner. Now, I have to travel to the next village that has just one left at the train station.

Cash is positioned as suspicious. In 10 years, it might very well be illegal.

>>falcor+61
In what way, if supplied by the bank and used only for contacting the bank to do banking, could a device become a spy instrument?

Kicking banks off the internet/apps would make Android and Apple less cushy.

>>falcor+61
Not OP, but sharing the sentiment (never had banking or similar software on a phone, yet using ATMs, banks' web interfaces, offices). Avoiding interaction with a bank completely is rarely viable these days, and they will run their software on their hardware to operate either way (whether it is an ATM, a bank office, or a website). I do not see it as relinquishing control of the hardware, since you are not expected to control a bank's hardware in the first place. While setting it on your phone comes with the usual risks of running proprietary software on your machines, such as sneaky data collection. If banks/governments will give mobile devices to people for that, those may act even a little more like electronic ankle bracelets, but they would also be isolated from your other data and software; in places with near-mandatory government software, some choose to create such an isolation by having multiple devices for different purposes.

>>PeterS+w2
Not in the US... have you seen the first or second Shrek movie where a monster busts in on a Starbucks and all the scared customers run across the street to another Starbucks? Like a virus they're everywhere. Same thing for atm machines. Cash is doing just fine.

>>card_z+G3
> In what way, if supplied by the bank and used only for contacting the bank to do banking, could a device become a spy instrument?

Here's my attempt at future history: Firstly they'll require you to prove your current location, to ensure that the request isn't made by a remote hacker; they'll do this by integrating their own cellular modem, as well as scanning local wi-fi networks. Then, at a second phase, they'll integrate a camera and microphone to perform a face identification, asking you to speak out a particular phrase while performing a particular motion. At the start they'll only require you to turn the mic and camera on during active usage, but eventually they'll say that these have to stay on continuously so that they can ensure that the device wasn't tempered with. And if we aren't careful, we'll accept every single small added requirement, until we're boiled alive.

>>falcor+61
> how does relinquishing control of the hardware help us

It's not relinquishing control, but separation of concerns for hardware.

Bank should manage their hardware, not your hardware.

>>falcor+61

  > the banks/governments give the people devices to use for these things,

Give?

The devices will cost "a reasonable amount" and have GPS tracking "for your safety".

>>zigzag+J9
Yep! Thanks for helping me put my points across better. It's like having a separate work computer, for example.

Okay, I guess more to the point, I don't want the banking app forcing the OS that I use. They can provide their own damn hardware!

>>falcor+45
If it was normal and expected that you carry the device around, to make purchases with, then all that would be very bad, and it becomes like a phone but worse in some ways (less ownership over it) and better in others (does not contain other personal data).

However, if it sits at home in a drawer, it can keep its camera on all it likes, transmitting images of darkness, and tell the bank repeatedly where your home address is, and sometimes (when in use) confirm what your face looks like. Not a privacy issue I think?

Probably it would become expected that you carry the thing around and it replaces cash and cards, but that seems to me to be the crucial step if it's going to have meaningful potential for spying.

>>dotanc+xe
Most banks here (nl) give you a dumb coincell battery powered code-calculator, either with or without smartcard access to your banking-card. Basically some form of TOTP or challenge-response system.

Those devices have no network, no connectity, no gps, and no interface besides a tiny 7-segment lcd display and some 0-9 buttons for pincode entry.

>>sigio+9d1
I'd be satisfied with that.