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1. vegeta+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:49:35
Agile solves a lot of these problems.
replies(12): >>reflec+Q >>fnimic+V >>lowblo+d1 >>edrxty+n1 >>liveon+y1 >>marcos+H1 >>mateo4+J1 >>mirolj+Q1 >>danwee+62 >>Humdee+72 >>lelant+R2 >>bedobi+le
2. reflec+Q[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:53:05
>>vegeta+(OP)
What kind of stupid statement is this...no it certainly does not.

But humor me with an explanation, please...

replies(1): >>vegeta+EG1
3. fnimic+V[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:53:22
>>vegeta+(OP)
Does it? At one of my former jobs management would regularly pressure engineers into doing late nights at sprint end (every other week) if we were "behind". Then if we finished things a day into the next sprint, the PM would backdate the completion to make it look like we had hit the previous sprint, since sprint completion percentage was an OKR and people's bonuses and promotions depended on it. Then since we hit the sprint, obviously our velocity had to go up for the next one, even though we were starting a day late from scrambling to "finish" the last one.

There's a reason I don't work there anymore.

replies(2): >>robbin+4i >>zimzam+IC
4. lowblo+d1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:54:17
>>vegeta+(OP)
Agile done right solves these problems. I have yet to see Agile done right, even once. And I've done XP since ~2003 and Scrum since 2006. It is now clear to me that Agile does not solve these problems: a solid leadership team solves these problems, and sometimes solid leadership teams use Agile (whether formally like Scrum, or informally, like just good communication). But Agile is the canary in the coal mine: it reveals very quickly if you have a solid leadership team or not.
replies(5): >>marcos+e2 >>tremon+W4 >>august+8c >>bedobi+qc >>sodapo+fq
5. edrxty+n1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:54:38
>>vegeta+(OP)
%s/solves/creates/

I don't care what the theoretical outcome is when the practical one is always this.

6. liveon+y1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:55:07
>>vegeta+(OP)
Now, of course, everybody is going to start moaning, "But I have all this speed. I'm agile. I'm fast. You know, this easy stuff is making my life good because I have a lot of speed."

What kind of runner can run as fast as they possibly can from the very start of a race?

[Audience reply: Sprinter]

Right, only somebody who runs really short races, okay?

[Audience laughter]

But of course, we are programmers, and we are smarter than runners, apparently, because we know how to fix that problem, right? We just fire the starting pistol every hundred yards and call it a new sprint.

https://github.com/matthiasn/talk-transcripts/blob/master/Hi...

replies(1): >>romano+rh
7. marcos+H1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:55:24
>>vegeta+(OP)
How?
8. mateo4+J1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:55:27
>>vegeta+(OP)
Agile can help, but I think a vacation/time off is better approach in this scenario.
9. mirolj+Q1[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:55:44
>>vegeta+(OP)
It's not that I don't believe you, I'd just enjoy reading an explanation how it solves the problems parent talks about.
10. danwee+62[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:56:56
>>vegeta+(OP)
How so? If there are boring bugs to be fixed, someone will need to fix them regardless of the methodology used.
11. Humdee+72[view] [source] 2023-10-12 16:57:07
>>vegeta+(OP)
Eureka! If only it was this easy...
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12. marcos+e2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 16:57:29
>>lowblo+d1
Agile done right is about some completely different problems.

AFAIK, it does nothing to help here. But a solid leadership does help.

13. lelant+R2[view] [source] 2023-10-12 17:00:03
>>vegeta+(OP)
> Agile solves a lot of these problems

Agile causes a lot of those problems. GP just described all the elements of agile, "pick up next ticket as a on as one is closed", "blockers", daily status updates, etc.

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14. tremon+W4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 17:10:43
>>lowblo+d1
To me, "agile" in these discussions only apportions blame, it's orthogonal to the quality of software.

When it's an agile project, either devs will choose to do the right thing, or too many developers will work on new features, whether because it gives them more visibility or because they like working on features more. And when it's not agile, either you have a product/team manager that understands the importance of not drowning in tech debt, or you have a manager that constantly prioritizes features over quality.

Neither approach guarantees that the right choices will be made, just that in Agile, the developers mostly have themselves to blame.

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15. august+8c[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 17:47:36
>>lowblo+d1
> Agile done right solves these problems

It's funny that Agile is always something else. It cannot be criticized because then your are doing it wrong. It's like a theory which is not falsifiable.

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16. bedobi+qc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 17:49:00
>>lowblo+d1
no true scotsman is all agile advocates have

don't get me wrong agile is an improvement in the sense that iterating on small deliverables is better than a single giant waterfall process, no disagreement there

but yeah if your tool never delivers in the alleged benefits, ever, anywhere, then it's not good enough to say the problem is the people

tools are welded by people

if your tool doesn't take that into account and assumes and requires its users to be perfect, well, then it's not a very good tool

17. bedobi+le[view] [source] 2023-10-12 17:56:01
>>vegeta+(OP)
no it doesn't lol it literally causes them? i'm no waterfall advocate but at least with waterfall there's a clear beginning, middle and end to a software project with intuitive places for work, rest and celebration

meanwhile doing maintenance on an existing system in an agile environment, esp with kanban, is very often literally what the poster is describing, an endless slog through tickets that aren't particularly noteworthy and thus don't really merit much consideration or celebration when done etc

replies(1): >>nradov+wz
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18. romano+rh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:11:10
>>liveon+y1
Agile isn't meant to imply speed in the sense of LoC/s, though right? The speed in Agile is about getting customer feedback sooner rather than later (so maybe a kind of latency?). I don't think sprints are mentioned in the Agile manifesto or related materials.

And even within frameworks like Scrum, I don't think that "sprint" was ever intended to mean that programmers are supposed to be in permanent crunch mode.

replies(3): >>rpeden+Xm >>dpe82+Nn >>liveon+eB
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19. robbin+4i[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:14:09
>>fnimic+V
Name & shame
replies(1): >>HeyLau+3t
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20. rpeden+Xm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:34:40
>>romano+rh
Words matter, though.

Why call it a sprint if it's not supposed to be anything sprinting? We can literally call it anything we want, so why not pick a better metaphor?

I think that many developers who say they dislike Agile really mean they dislike Scrum. I mean, a rugby scrum is pretty violent, and sprinting non-stop is a good way of dying of exhaustion.

Come to think of it, some managers do seem to want the workplace to be a ruthless battleground with worker pitted against worker in a relentless flat-out sprint to seen as a "high performer".

replies(4): >>nradov+Zs >>sodapo+tt >>lamber+Kv >>tetha+az
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21. dpe82+Nn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:38:08
>>romano+rh
There's a theory of "Agile", and then there's the reality of how it ends up being practiced in almost every instance. The latter is what matters.
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22. sodapo+fq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:47:42
>>lowblo+d1
I've worked in an "agile done right" situation. It certainly wasn't a utopia but the best experience of my professional career so far (14 years).
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23. nradov+Zs[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:57:35
>>rpeden+Xm
The Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) simply calls it an iteration. This is a neutral term with no implications about the pace of work.

https://scaledagileframework.com/iterations/

replies(1): >>__loam+Lu1
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24. HeyLau+3t[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:57:40
>>robbin+4i
Pretty much everywhere, unfortunately.
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25. sodapo+tt[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 18:59:15
>>rpeden+Xm
Many people call it an "iteration".

> I think that many developers who say they dislike Agile really mean they dislike Scrum.

True say.

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26. lamber+Kv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 19:07:46
>>rpeden+Xm
Perception. Interpretation. Either way, "sprint" is intended to imply short burst, definite endpoint that can be seen. A Burndown is about measured capacity. The only actual speed that matters is time to failure, i.e. "fail fast".
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27. tetha+az[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 19:23:01
>>rpeden+Xm
If I recall right, Sprint originated from Extreme Programming, a predecessor to current agile methods.

In XP, there was very much the idea of spending time to prepare for a sprint. Get requirements and preconditions worked out, clear out possible distractions.. Then you'd use a 1 - 2 week long sprint (aka actual crunch time) to knock out 80 - 90% of a feature with everyone on the team under high pressure and positive, constructive stress. And then you'd have some time after the sprint to work with low pressure, clean up technical debt, consolidate and build up for the next sprint.

And honestly, that's a pretty effective way to work if you plan and gear up for it.

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28. nradov+wz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 19:24:18
>>bedobi+le
Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) has a regular program increment cadence of every 8-12 weeks. This provides intuitive places for work, rest, and celebration.

https://scaledagileframework.com/planning-interval/

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29. liveon+eB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 19:31:46
>>romano+rh
take it up with Rich Hickey I suppose :)

If you've never watched Simple Made Easy I really recommend it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtk3HCgTa8

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30. zimzam+IC[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-12 19:37:19
>>fnimic+V
The expectation that engineers work overtime to hit arbitrary metrics can’t be fixed by a process like scrum or waterfall though. Process can’t replace competent management.
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31. __loam+Lu1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-13 01:27:58
>>nradov+Zs
SAFe is a failed ideology: https://seandexter1.medium.com/beware-safe-the-scaled-agile-...
replies(1): >>nradov+9L1
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32. vegeta+EG1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-13 03:13:25
>>reflec+Q
I don’t k now why I’m being downvoted.

Agile lets you manage expectations and set boundaries by scheduling a finite amount of work into a bounded amount of time.

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33. nradov+9L1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-13 03:53:45
>>__loam+Lu1
There's nothing ideological about SAFe. It's simply a collection of best practices which work reasonably well in most organizations. You can pick and choose which pieces to adopt and which to ignore. Like any methodology, it can't compensate for toxic management, technical incompetence, or lack of product market fit.

If you don't like SAFe then please be specific. Which parts of it don't work if actually followed as documented?

replies(1): >>__loam+v02
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34. __loam+v02[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-13 06:25:50
>>nradov+9L1
I literally linked an article going through why SAFe is MBA garbage that misunderstands why agile was created in the first place but if that's not specific enough for you then I'm not sure what you're looking for.
replies(1): >>nradov+e33
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35. nradov+e33[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-13 15:00:45
>>__loam+v02
That article is garbage with no specifics. I don't know why you bothered to link it.
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