zlacker

Firefox has surpassed Chrome on Speedometer

submitted by akyuu+(OP) on 2023-07-18 12:00:21 | 1282 points 544 comments
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13. akyuu+O4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:33:35
>>veave+x3
Speedometer is one of the primary benchmarks used by the Chromium team as a proxy for real-world use of popular JavaScript frameworks: https://v8.dev/blog/speedometer-2
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17. akyuu+85[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:35:08
>>p-e-w+T3
In the Firefox Nightly blog, there is some discussion of the performance improvements they've delivered in each release: https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org

For example: https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2023/04/14/dropping-the-ban...

> The two big jumps are from these two fixes. Great job, Performance Team!

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1444491

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1815069

29. e4m2+p6[view] [source] 2023-07-18 12:43:48
>>akyuu+(OP)
See also https://arewefastyet.com.
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30. kristi+x6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:44:18
>>brunno+n4
Are you talking about this? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/profile-switc...
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31. rewmie+y6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:44:23
>>xd1936+54
> (...) but Firefox's Container Tabs is hard for me to imagine losing.

Are you referring to Firefox's multi-account containers extension?

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/containers

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32. dan_ha+I6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:45:19
>>dherik+a6
Something like this?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/sidebery/

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38. pokeym+g7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:48:10
>>dherik+a6
Eh? Firefox vertical tab support is much better than Chromium's in my experience. The chrome addons I've seen are hacky and clunky. It doesn't seem like chrome UI has nearly the same modifiability as firefox.

Edit: I use the Tree Style Tabs add on

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

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39. eyegor+B7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 12:50:03
>>dherik+a6
Tree style tabs is a vertical tab extension for ff and the best ui around if you use a lot of tabs. I can't even use chromium vertical tabs anymore because they feel terrible in comparison. You can also fully style tree style tabs via css.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

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71. 5e92cb+6b[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:10:36
>>EVa5I7+T8
Depends on your region and what sites you're using. I live in the middle of nowhere far from civilization, and 1.1.1.1 returns terrible IPs for many sites including google.com (which pings at 350-400 ms if you resolve it through 1.1.1.1, but at 90-100 ms if you're using any other resolver). They do it because they block EDNS0 in order to protect your privacy or something like that.

So I use 8.8.8.8 and 9.9.9.9 in parallel through dnsmasq. Whoever responds the first wins. If you're not stuck in the middle of nowhere, you're probably better off with the latter as it's somewhat more trustworthy than Google.

https://quad9.net/

73. fernan+eb[view] [source] 2023-07-18 13:11:01
>>akyuu+(OP)
as a pentadactly widow, i would recommend to anyone that is coming back to firefox tridactyl https://github.com/tridactyl/tridactyl

is it the same? no.

but is it close? hell yeah. it really helps me with productivity!

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99. RunSet+5e[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:23:47
>>seapat+Pb
Out of the box Tree Style Tabs is not very good, due to decisions made by Firefox that are beyond the control of Tree Style Tabs's developer.

Enabling the desired behavior likely requires quite a few steps beyond just installing the extension.

https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab/wiki/Code-snippets-fo...

Originally, Firefox had a dropdown menu that allowed the user to choose whether tabs were on the top, bottom, left, or right.

This has been an annoying trend with Firefox for some time. They take the default, expected functionality, marginalize it while saying "Users who prefer the old way can enable it in a setting / extension" and then the setting gets deprecated or the extension stops working.

See also: "Classic Theme Restorer".

All the while software that might work better as an extension is bundled with Firefox and enabled by default. e.g. "Pocket", "Hello".

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100. jeroen+ke[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:24:55
>>loeg+F3
This comment should be helpful: >>36771201
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105. euazOn+df[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:29:08
>>seapat+Pb
Tree Style Tabs are great, but y'all should really check out Sideberry! It's modern and works very well.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/sidebery/

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108. happym+zf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:30:37
>>toyg+Ib
Profiles in Firefox isn't great.

The profiles plugin, is great.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/profile-switc...

I would want to see this integrated.

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110. frabcu+Bf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:30:39
>>markan+Kb
Looking at https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/developer/ I'm a bit confused... Which features are just new features which will soon be in the main Firefox DevTools, and which are specific to installing the Developer Edition?
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114. hajile+Vf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:31:42
>>veave+x3
Speedometer executes a bunch of TodoMVC projects, so it's a mix of JS and DOM work. FF has done a lot of cool work on their DOM and have started to focus some on making JS faster, so they are pretty fast here.

https://browserbench.org/Speedometer2.0/

If you are interested in just JS, JetStream 2 is a good metric IMO, but is perhaps less "real world" as it doesn't really do DOM stuff. FF is slower here, but has made a lot of progress recently. (going from somewhere around 35% slower to around 10% slower).

https://browserbench.org/JetStream2.0/in-depth.html

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117. osmark+Tg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:35:38
>>justin+r9
I wrote a script (https://github.com/osmarks/random-stuff/blob/master/histrete...) to dump a Firefox places.sqlite database to a separate SQLite database for long-term storage (I run it nightly). It seems to delete stuff based on some combination of visit frequency and last visit time.

I suspect they need to do this to keep history searches fast, since I also separately hacked a bunch of `about:config` options to retain more history and they run quite slowly now, particularly on my phone.

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139. Electr+qk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:48:15
>>rileym+Wh
Pocket is builtin to Firefox, but in my experience, searching something you saved to Pocket (a thing that should be pretty core to the Pocket product) sucks and you really need simonw's https://github.com/dogsheep/pocket-to-sqlite to actually search it.
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153. unsung+Gm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 13:56:03
>>_y5hn+N9
Firefox containers are tab groups on steroids. Tab groups are just aesthetic while Firefox containers can not only group and colour code the tabs but isolate cache and stuff. This means you can use two gmail accounts in two separate tabs. It also means you can isolate you personal bank or other websites so that other data harvesting website cant get to that information. :)

Firefox containers have been there long back before tab groupings were available in Chrome as well.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-use-firefox-contain...

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159. steveB+Bo[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:02:32
>>itsTyr+fd
It was literally the only app that kernel panic'd any of my Macs in years, and it did it repeatedly on a few bad releases across a number of years.

Given the number of devs at GOOG that presumably used Macs, it was astonishing sloppiness to have been let out the door

2012 there was ultimately an Apple driver issue, but only seemed GOOG was impacted / let the code out the door / couldn't be bothered to patch around in meantime https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/google-yes-chrome-is-cra...

This was not the first or last Chrome MacOS kernel panic. Personally I recall them happening post 2017 as they were happening when I lived in an apartment I moved into around then. Searching around I see references to more of these types of incidents in later years like 2016 & 2019.

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174. twic+Dr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:13:20
>>coldpi+Wq
That may be a reference to this classic Firefox extension:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

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182. fullst+Gu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:22:23
>>dylan6+0c
You reminded me of this sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxY0-Qr_l78
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183. seba_d+Ku[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:22:30
>>coldpi+Wq
My browser looks very similar to this: https://framagit.org/ariasuni/tabcenter-reborn/-/wikis/theme...

Tab list usability remains pretty much the same regardless of how many tabs are open.

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186. kennis+fv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:24:03
>>seba_d+35
TL;DR: Windows Defender had a bug that made certain system calls expensive on CPU cycles when Defender's Real-time Protection feature is enabled. After discovery, Mozilla reported this issue to Microsoft. Microsoft is releasing a patch that should result in lower CPU usage when using Firefox on sites like YouTube (a ~75% CPU usage reduction was noted when browsing YouTube in Firefox with the fixed version of Defender).

>>35458746

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192. NavinF+uw[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:27:38
>>andyba+uk
Chrome already does that by default: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/02/chrome-110-will-auto...
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194. seba_d+nx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:30:28
>>NavinF+uw
Firefox did for about two years now: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/unload-inactive-tabs-sa...
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195. djbusb+ox[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:30:30
>>dom96+9t
Work with libreFox?

https://github.com/intika/Librefox

Or LibreWolf?

https://librewolf.net/

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214. LargeD+DB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:44:30
>>MilaM+c8
Firefox containers are great but this is better imo:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/profile-switc...

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222. nateb2+kD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 14:50:37
>>pingec+9i
Regarding battery drain, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1716164

TL;DR: Firefox usually uses AV1. Hardware prior to intel 11th gen tiger lake, amd rdna2 (pre rtx 6000 series) and nvidia 3000 series has no hardware AV1 decoding support (and neither does Apple Silicon). This results in higher CPU usage on Firefox, whereas Safari and Chrome usually resort to codecs that have hardware decode support on the machine.

This can easily be fixed by going to `about:config` and setting `media.av1.enabled` to false.

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235. akaij+GG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 15:00:33
>>seapat+Pb
I use Sidebery, with some modifications from https://github.com/black7375/Firefox-UI-Fix/wiki/Options
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237. mortal+HH[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 15:03:29
>>beltsa+Lz
I switched to Orion[0] as a test, discovered the awesomeness of superbly integrated, native, tree style tabs, and now I'm stuck with this browser where sites I need for work are half broken. I tried Firefox with Tree Style Tab extension, but it's not nearly as good :(

[0] https://browser.kagi.com

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249. some_r+zM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 15:18:32
>>hooby+Nq
Don't worry, there's no risk of a 100% Firefox ecosystem[1]. To the point where even suggesting it as a risk is really silly.

[1]https://gs.statcounter.com/

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264. akino_+LP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 15:30:19
>>EVa5I7+T8
Find out for yourself using https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
266. jeroen+8Q[view] [source] 2023-07-18 15:31:20
>>akyuu+(OP)
That's very interesting! Last time I benchmarked Firefox, it performed half as fast as Chrome or Gnome's WebKit. I should run my benchmarks again!

I do wonder though, is this performance improvement Windows specific? It's hard to believe that Mozilla could make up the difference in only three or four months.

Edit: looks like Chromium still beats Firefox on Linux: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perfherder/graphs?highlightAl...

In fact, all benchmarks browsers seem between a quarter and a third slower on Linux in speedometer. That's strange, I wonder if this has to do with the limited availability of hardware acceleration?

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276. Nezteb+1T[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 15:41:41
>>e4m2+p6
Also https://awsy.netlify.com/!
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298. amf12+AY[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:02:10
>>bashZo+sD
Brave does some shady shit too: >>36735777
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311. tredre+L71[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:32:03
>>lillec+db
Chromium's executable[1][2] is already named chrome.exe unless the builder goes out of their way to rename it. This can't be the reason.

1. https://download-chromium.appspot.com/ 2. https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-bina...

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312. beltsa+681[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:33:09
>>grogen+AP
You can also search open tabs in the address bar: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/address-bar-autocomplet...

I hardly use it, though, because I usually have < 100 open tabs, not thousands like others have. I identify tabs by their tree structures (parents, children, siblings tabs) and the prefixes of the titles, whose lengths don't depend on how many tabs opened, because the tabs are arranged vertically.

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321. TheRea+Oa1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:43:08
>>SomeHa+LQ
Firefox had them. In fact, it had them since version 4 [1]. Then Firefox got rid of them again [2]. For no clear reason. And then Chrome copied the idea. And that's just a messed up timeline of events.

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-4-beta-updated-w...

[2] https://venturebeat.com/mobile/mozilla-is-removing-tab-group...

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323. seba_d+ob1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:45:21
>>TheRea+Oa1
It still lives on as an extension: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/panorama-view...
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324. entrop+Bb1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:46:19
>>shmolf+xP
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pwas-for-fire...

Works fine for me on Linux Mint 21.1

I also use Firefox for Android and that does natively support PWAs: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...

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335. entrop+8e1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 16:55:56
>>NavinF+HW
I agree that the human eye can see higher than 60Hz, especially in the peripheral vision where VR research shows we need at least 90Hz to not get sick and 120Hz works better.

That said, there is something to be said for modern applications just running way below the limits of the refresh rate of our screens: https://twitter.com/jmmv/status/1671670996921896960

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342. TeMPOr+Wh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 17:08:51
>>beltsa+jd1
Honestly, I don't remember. A year ago when I was considering going back to vertical tabs, I read a bunch of discussion thread and articles, and got the impression Sideberry might be better. Tried it, and it resonates with me - unlike TST, which I tried and quickly abandoned several times over the year.

Can't really point to any concrete issue, other than I have a distinct feeling Sideberry is much faster/lighter, and feels more like part of Firefox vs. some bunch of JS faking an UI on top of it. Sorry I can't give you a more objective comparison. I did find this though:

https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/118ddge/tab_manage...

which is a recent(ish) discussion, and the points made there seem accurate.

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346. danShu+jl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 17:20:13
>>dahfiz+nM
It's just ADHD, there's not really a workflow reason that I have 1000+ tabs open. It just kind of happens.

Firefox/Sideberry is useful for mitigating that. I also have workflows set up for mass-exporting my tabs from Firefox to a text file and reorganizing them in plain-text and re-opening just the tabs I care about[0].

Bookmarking on any browser is cumbersome and leads to disorganization over time. Tree-style tabs helps make that organization at least a little bit easier.

[0]: https://textmark.netlify.app/

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358. Androi+Pq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 17:39:26
>>coldpi+Wq
The handy part about Firefox, unlike Chrome, will shrink tabs to a minimum width and then make them a horizontally scrolling list. I am somewhat of a tab hoarder (I also keep browser windows on vertical monitors), so using Chrome, where it would shrink tabs more and more until there's nothing but a sliver, wouldn't work. Below are screenshots of examples. Firefox keeps things usable; Chrome not so much. (I also know it isn't 1000 tabs, nor is it close to the amount I keep open on my work laptop).

Firefox: https://yld.moe/raw/nVE.png

Chrome: https://yld.moe/raw/vu8.png

Also, if you're wondering why my tabs look like they're from 2017, that's just another benefit of using Firefox [1]. Although as nice as it being able to actually customize our browsers, it would be nice for Mozilla to stop breaking things for sake of breaking things.

[1]: https://github.com/black7375/Firefox-UI-Fix

364. collin+gu1[view] [source] 2023-07-18 17:52:26
>>akyuu+(OP)
Firefox has 2.2% usage on US government websites according to https://analytics.usa.gov/

If it falls below 2% it may lose official support on .gov websites according to https://designsystem.digital.gov/documentation/developers/#b...

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381. Firmwa+wy1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 18:09:31
>>pcthro+Sx1
>Tab groups in Chrome are a relatively new feature

I'm gonna die on this hill but I'd like to add that Opera had tab groups natively without extensions since 2010 [1]. Damn I feel old now.

Also, UX of tab groups in old-Opera was way nicer than current-Chrome since you could just drag and drop tabs on top of another and it would automatically create groups.

[1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2512081/opera-11-ships...

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390. 542458+rG1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 18:43:37
>>jeroen+8Q
https://arewefastyet.com/win10/benchmarks/overview?numDays=6...

Looks like it really depends on the benchmark. In some Firefox gets slaughtered, in some Firefox is the clear winner.

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409. CmdrKr+TL1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 19:07:15
>>bayind+AQ
In the dev tools settings there is a checkbox "Disable HTTP Cache (when toolbox is open)" which name seems to imply that this only applies to the resources that make up the page, not to DNS lookups (about:config name is devtools.cache.disabled, and it defaults to false).

I investigated and found that Firefox's in-memory DNS cache can be manually cleared by clicking a button in about:networking. To be fair Chrome also has a similar cache and method for clearing it. See: https://www.makeuseof.com/chrome-edge-firefox-safari-opera-b...

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411. kurtoi+iM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 19:09:08
>>ttarr+Xu
Looks like the Arch repos do PGO on firefox: https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/fi...
412. bugmen+kM1[view] [source] 2023-07-18 19:09:24
>>akyuu+(OP)
The link is terrible. Maybe the article should link to https://arewefastyet.com or maybe the Speedometer selection at https://arewefastyet.com/win10/benchmarks/raptor-desktop-spe...
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417. Propel+HN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 19:15:59
>>unilyn+rH1
There used to be xbookmarks.com but it is long gone. There is an open source tool by the name of XBrowserSync [1] which came up when I searched for xbookmarks. What they say on their website sounds promising, but I did not do any further research or try it out. I'm on Firefox on all my devices ;)

[1] https://www.xbrowsersync.org/

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433. elisha+iX1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 20:08:29
>>dom96+9t
https://www.tumblr.com/foone/721395638537961472/i-see-people... remains the best take on Brave that I've seen.

"I see people talking about the Brave browser in the whole Firefox vs chrome debate, and while people rightly point out that it's just chromium and that they do shady cryptocurrency shit, I never see anyone point out that Brave's founder and CEO is Brandan Eich.

"He founded Brave after massive protests against him becoming CEO of Mozilla, resigning after 11 days. And the reason for those protests? He donated a lot of money to the Prop 8 campaign to ban gay marriage.

"So just remember: it's not just another chromium fork, it's not just a browser with cryptocurrency bullshit, it's also the browser founded by a homophobe because he got kicked out of his former organization for being a homophobe.

"Also, he invented Javascript. I'm willing to believe that maybe he has grown on the gay marriage issue, and made amends for his former mistakes. But Javascript cannot be forgiven."

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440. elisha+WZ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 20:22:36
>>bayind+c9
> "time nslookup"

Or as a slightly more thorough approach, you can use something like namebench or dnsbench:

https://code.google.com/archive/p/namebench

https://github.com/askmediagroup/dnsbench

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442. bayind+Z02[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 20:27:39
>>elisha+WZ1
Yeah, while it's not as thorough as these tools, the method is at least reproducible and sane, and with ~10 or so samples, you get an interval with a nice confidence.

Another through method will be hyperfine[0], yet I wanted to provide a method which requires no installation and can be done in a whim, without jumps and hoops, with the tools already at hand.

[0]: https://github.com/sharkdp/hyperfine

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443. aden1n+A12[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 20:30:58
>>javajo+o8
As for sites that don't work in FireFox, here's a huge one: Office365 does not support FireFox on MacOS[0]. Mostly it works, but some things unfortunately don't. For instance, my employer's Teams site just doesn't render at all in FF.

[0]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/which-browsers-wo...

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459. cpeter+Sa2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 21:18:30
>>isodev+zy
Here are the Speedometer results for Firefox, Chrome, and Safari on macOS:

https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perfherder/graphs?highlightAl...

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465. magica+yf2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 21:47:07
>>afavou+J7
If you switch to Mac you can get Safari numbers, which seem to be about the same or just slower than Chrome, and now Firefox as well:

https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perfherder/graphs?highlightAl...

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466. efreak+Rf2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 21:48:45
>>Androi+Pq1
If this is the only thing stopping you from using Chrome (ie you'd prefer to use Chrome), this might help. https://www.ghacks.net/2022/08/29/how-to-set-a-minimum-tab-w...
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467. magica+Uf2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 21:49:08
>>agloe_+gJ1
Safari is slower, though? From the sibling comment:

https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perfherder/graphs?highlightAl...

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482. xd1936+ru2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-18 23:42:23
>>rewmie+y6
That's the one! I thought it was an inbuilt feature of the browser. I guess the Facebook Container[1] extension must bring it down as a dependency or something, because I have never installed that extension knowingly.

1. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont...

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484. austin+0x2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 00:05:05
>>kstrau+og2
Appears to be: https://jsbench.github.io/#b39045cacae8d8c4a3ec044e538533dc

Its just a crude memory operation for Firefox. The video card in my laptop is super inferior compared to my desktop, so in most other benchmarks the laptop is much slower. The laptop has DDR4 memory where the desktop has slower DDR3 memory.

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485. austin+gx2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 00:07:10
>>magica+od2
No, the DOM is a living artifact, but it lives in memory. So access to the DOM, at least for Firefox, appears to just be a crude memory operation of walking a tree from a narrow collection of pointers in the JIT.

https://jsbench.github.io/#b39045cacae8d8c4a3ec044e538533dc

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492. danShu+UD2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 01:12:05
>>imdoor+9x1
> Most of the times when I've tried finding stuff in (Firefox) history, I wasn't able to. Unless it's in the last week or so.

I mentioned this below, but check to see what your history limits are in Firefox (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1039372). It's possible if you do enough browsing that you might have trouble finding older pages because they're not there anymore.

I'm not sure what the best mitigation is for that, I've kind of accepted that history for Firefox is short-term, not long-term. It might be possible to rig up a webextension to save history more permanently, but I suspect it would need to do native messaging I think to do that, and at that point maybe it's better to just do regular copies of the SQLite database.

Relying on Firefox history less also has the kind of minor advantage of allowing you to be more aggressive about cleaning it yourself, which can have a noticeable performance impact in some cases.

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510. RunSet+bH3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 12:16:30
>>Jochim+3T
"WebSerial" appears to me just another baby step in Chome's quest to become an OS.

What is the justification for making everyone's browser able to "read from and write to serial devices"?

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_...

I know it is really for user fingerprinting but what is google's overt justification for pushing it?

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511. Jochim+F74[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 14:15:58
>>RunSet+bH3
Mozilla's argument isn't that you'll be tracked or fingerprinted. It's that you're too stupid to be permitted control over whether or not you want to allow access to devices you've connected to your machine. Rather than work to mitigate those risks, they've decided to hobble the utility of their browser.

Personally, it would make flashing ESPHome devices much more convenient. Not having to switch browser for a start. The ability to plug a board into whatever PC on my LAN and just flash it, without having to install and maintain the entire toolchain is nice as well.

More broadly, there are web based IDEs for microcontrollers. Arduino has one: https://docs.arduino.cc/learn/starting-guide/the-arduino-web...

A few of these are aimed at the education sector, removing a some of the significant barriers faced by educators that would otherwise have trouble getting the software installed and keeping it updated.

In one of the discussions, someone was using it to help dental offices retrieve data from some specialised hardware. Browser support dealt with similar concerns of how to distribute the software to non-technical clients and keep it up to date. It was also something their clients understood, rather than something new.

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514. akino_+3R4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-19 16:56:36
>>EVa5I7+5C1
Then you might find namebench appealing: https://code.google.com/archive/p/namebench/
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524. Sujeto+kK6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-20 04:14:09
>>nirvdr+wY1
Yeah I use Grasshopper for that.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/grasshopper-u...

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528. toasta+jc7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-20 09:57:28
>>copper+bb1
“Fx” is and basically has always been (v1.5) the official abbreviation for “Firefox”. This abbreviation is basically the only one used inside Mozilla & you can see it reflected in their project names to this day.

> How do I capitalize Firefox? How do I abbreviate it?

> Only the first letter is capitalized (so it's Firefox, not FireFox.) The preferred abbreviation is "Fx" or "fx".

– Mozilla Firefox 1.5 Release Notes, https://website-archive.mozilla.org/www.mozilla.org/firefox_...

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