"Apparently not. That's bad."
https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/15/23512004/elon-musk-start...
Seems so.
> Same doxxing rules apply to “journalists” as to everyone else
https://www.choosingtherapy.com/narcissistic-collapse/
Read through. The paragraph about how it manafests in the workplace is quite telling.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603573725978275841
I'm confused on why he thinks posting public information falls under doxxing. Doxxing someone usually requires you to share private information about someone that they themselves aren't willing to share.
How can he say this is doxxing, but he's completely for people posting about Hunter Biden's laptop which actually contained private information not meant to be shared publicly.
Seems like he just changing the rules that effect him and ignoring the rest.
Essentially making Twitter the same as it was before he bought it lol.
Here's yet another savvy take by Eve Fairbanks:
We’re in Denial About the True Cost of a Twitter Implosion [2022-12-02]
https://www.wired.com/story/musk-denial-true-cost-twitter-im...
"But if we judge Twitter’s influence by its active users, we underestimate it massively. It has no peer as a forge of public opinion. In political analysis, publishing, public health, foreign policy, economics, history, the study of race, even in business and finance, Twitter has come to drive who gets quoted in the press. Who opines on TV. Who gets a podcast. In foreign affairs and political analysis, especially, it often determines whom we consider an authority. Almost every academic and journalist I know has come to read Twitter, even if they don’t have accounts."
This is very good podcast about this exact topic.
The hastily written new policy from yesterday carves out an explicit exemption for reporters that's being ignored today. https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info...
> For media, the following are not in violation of our policy:
> * the media is publicly available or is being covered by mainstream media;
> * the media and the accompanying tweet text add value to the public discourse or are shared in public interest;
> * contains eyewitness accounts or on the ground reports from developing events;
> * the subject of the media is a public figure.
[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/05/banks-financing-musks-twitte...
You can practically see the switch flip. I’m not sure he’s openly said Musk has made bad decisions until this moment.
The detail already came out. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603573725978275841
https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon...
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af&lat=32.124&lon=-...
Musk really doesn't want people to know where his jet is.
Good Jobs First track how much subsidies are given out to specific companies. Tesla's racked up $2.5 billion from states and the federal government and another half billion in loans/bailouts[^0] (for comparison, Tesla' net income in 2022 was $11.19B). SpaceX is all government contracts where NASA basically pays a private company to do the things they could and want to do but can't because of political impediments. We're still the ones funding it, we're just paying more and letting a private company take credit. Starlink's subsidized by the FCC, SolarCity's subsidized by a number of states as well as the federal gov'ts subsidization through tax credits for 30% of the cost of solar panels, etc.
And people aren't dumb. He's been sued in a number of countries for subsidy fraud already. Remember when Tesla pretended to have rapid battery exchange ready to go and announced it was live? That was purely to take advantage of a poorly written subsidy package in CA that didn't actually stipulate they had to give people access to it. Tesla won that lawsuit too iirc.
Elon Musk became the richest man on earth without ever running a profitable company. In fact, I'd say it's precisely by NOT running profitable companies that he got to where he is today
[^0]: https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc
edit: grammar & typos
https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1603570995490455552
They were linking to the jet tracker.
To be clear, a crazy person jumped on the hood of a car carrying elons kid. Can’t really blame him for reacting by banning someone tracking his movements in real-time.
https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info...
"For media, the following are not in violation of our policy..."
This doesn’t appear to be true
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-min...
It's hard to overstate what a crucial time this is for Tesla. They had early-adopter success when they had the field to themselves. But now every major car company plus a bunch of other people (possibly including Apple) are coming for them. Pivoting to the mainstream market and fending off all the competition is going to take both dedication and gobs of capital. Capital that is going going to be harder to raise with a distracted CEO and a bunch of investors who've had their fingers burned.
You're right, Rudy Giuliani is clearly a credible figure and his account of how he happened to come across Hunter Biden's laptop is sensible and not-suspicous in the least.
Hey, quick question completely unrelated to this, was Trump pro or anti Putin? Did Julian Assange leak information in good faith or did he co-ordinate with Republicans to release only information that made Democrats look bad, in the 2016 election? Who provided Assange that information?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-assange-idUSKBN20...
I wonder if the people who thought this xkcd was the ultimate rebuttal against those who think that these platforms should be more neutral are rethinking their stance on having a few very wealthy, very powerful people control major speech dissemination platforms.
https://in.mashable.com/culture/42675/internet-slams-elon-mu...
> Musk tweeted, "My firstborn child died in my arms. I felt his last heartbeat. I have no mercy for anyone who would use the deaths of children for gain, politics or fame."
> Soon, Elon's ex-wife Justine Musk revealed the real story and stated that it wasn't the techie but she was holding the child. She wrote, "A SIDS-related incident that put him on life support. He was declared brain-dead. And not that it matters to anyone except me, because it is one of the most sacred and defining moments of my life, but I was the one who was holding him."
If Musk wants to turn over a new leaf and decide free speech is secondary to protecting children, he should consider banning the accounts that have whipped up bomb threats against childrens' hospitals of late.
Think about a wedding. Think about a bride and groom happily dancing, looking forward to their life together. And what does Elon say at this moment? "As we danced at our wedding reception, Elon told me, 'I am the alpha in this relationship.'"
Residents of the commune later committed suicide by drinking a flavored beverage laced with potassium cyanide; some were forced to drink it, some (such as small children) drank it unknowingly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid
I have a longstanding interest in social psychology and the way a cult generally arranges to control people is to cut them off financially, socially, etc. This is the same way that abusive husbands typically treat their abused wives. One study sought to identify character traits that made abused women more likely to kill their abusive husband and could not do so. Instead, they found that the women who murdered their abusive husbands were the most isolated, the most abused, the most painted into a corner. In short, they were women who found themselves with no other way out.
I suppose if you work for the man or are enthralled by his billions or some such, that's going to hold sway for some people. But I have trouble comparing his Twitter debacle to what cults do.
Anyway, just rambling on. Not actually interested in discussing this Twitter mess that I am mostly trying to avoid discussing in spite of the entire world seeming to discuss nothing else.
But if you have some citations to back up your social psychology related statement, I would be interested in seeing those as it's an area of interest of mine.
There are many shades of gray, of course.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/feb/01/facebook-youtu...
> “There is no evidence to support the claim that the major social media companies are suppressing, censoring or otherwise discriminating against conservatives on their platforms,” Barrett said. “In fact, it is often conservatives who gain the most in terms of engagement and online attention, thanks to the platforms’ systems of algorithmic promotion of content.”
The latest is that they have given up trying to make it autonomous-only and will be looking to launch in the next few years.
Not entirely implausible given that their close partner Foxconn is already making EVs:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/18/business/foxconn-electric...
"LAPD's Threat Management Unit (TMU) is aware of the situation and tweet by Elon Musk and is in contact with his representatives and security team. No crime reports have been filed yet." (emphasis mine)
Look at Kanye. He has probably lost more than a billion dollars by openly becoming a (literal) Nazi. That's a significant portion of his wealth. He will probably never recover from that. He's gone from being beloved for his music to being a pariah.
I saw this to illustrate having nothing to lose I don't think is an accurate assessment. As long as you have something, you still have something to lose.
I contend that Elon hasn't really changed over the last few years (just like Kanye). So what's changed?
That's easy: the Overton window has simply moved further and further right where extreme right wing (ie alt-right) views have become mainstream. As such, those who whold those views have simply become more comfortable saying the quiet parts out loud.
You had the former president spouting QAnon conspiracies [1]. Tucker Carlson, the #1 show on America's #1 "news" network, openly pushed the idea of the Great Rplacement Theory [2]. It's truly frightening how normalized and mainstream these extreme right views have become.
> However, this does indicate a very deep flaw in our existing society i.e. giving certain individuals too much power; either via their job position or capital.
Every billionaire is a policy failure.
[1]: https://apnews.com/article/technology-donald-trump-conspirac...
[2]: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/tucker-carlson-s-great...
> It seems that when you are touched with greatness, you end up believing that you can do anything. And far more often than not, you can.
>
> Right up until the moment you can't.
It is unfathomable. What happened?
All he had to do was nothing. One strategy could have been to wait for a few months, kept teams in place, offers assurances of continuity, do an audit of systems, and then swoop in to make changes. Even at $4M/day it would have cost far, far less than this.
-
In my mind, the most valuable thing about these circumstances is that they offer an opportunity for us to learn.
Right now, the burning question I have in my mind is one I asked a few weeks ago, what's the MTBF for such a platform?
From a thread 23 days ago, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33701999 ,
There's a pattern of diverging expectations here, one is the non-technical/naïve one,
- Twitter is going to go down tomorrow and it's all over. RIP.
- Twitter is going to experience a failure cascade over time.
- It's all going to be fine.
I am not that good of a developer, but watching Twitter I can't help but be reminded of Arecibo, except at a larger, more abstract scale. There was no single massive event that caused the failure, rather a series of factors and events, tiny cables breaking that eventually leads to a failure cascade that then causes the suspended platform to crash.
From what I can tell, in the past week or so, [note: this was written 3 weeks ago]
- Twitter's copyright system failed
- Two Factor Authentication broke down (it seems to be back up?)
- (anecdata) Tweets have been loading sporadically for me and other people, sometimes we try to open a tweet and it says that it doesn't exist. Happens more frequently with new/recent tweets.
- (unconfirmed) Twitter's managed account backend is behaving "strangely." For e.g., "One of my campaign managers logged in last week and found all our paused creatives from the past 6 years had been reactivated." from https://www.teamblind.com/post/i-told-my-team-to-pause-our-750kmonth-twitter-ads-budget-last-week-4dnbo1Ft ———— Friends have told me other similar stories
I am asking this question because I don't know. And I'd like to develop a better mental model to understand what happens next.
https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1603570995490455552
Musk replied:
"Same doxxing rules apply to “journalists” as to everyone else"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603587970832793600
Starting to think there might be some national security issues with one guy being the nominal linchpin of the US space program, satellite internet, and global public messaging infrastructure.
Paid for (at least partially) by the U.S. government [1]. You can't easily say "no" to your own government even if you are a foreign asset.
[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spacex-ukraine-elon-musk-...
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/elon-musks-the-boring-comp...
https://www.curbed.com/2022/01/elon-musk-las-vegas-tunnel-ce...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbbrandon/2021/04/13/elon-mu...
https://www.jumpstartmag.com/what-we-can-learn-from-elon-mus...
They also have one of the world's strongest brands, with a lot of dedicated customers. They don't have to compete on price, so despite having 13% of the global phone market, they are making 75% of all smartphone profits: https://www.imore.com/apple-takes-75-smartphone-profits-desp...
I am not an Apple fan and own none of their gear, but even I can recognize how Apple would be a formidable player.
Those wanting more should look at two recent articles from Jean-Louis Gassee. One where he makes the pro case: https://mondaynote.com/apple-car-software-and-money-51f86a33...
And one where he makes the anti: https://mondaynote.com/apple-car-bad-idea-after-all-94689476...
> They posted my exact real-time location, basically assassination coordinates, in (obvious) direct violation of Twitter terms of service
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603587970832793600
(None of the journalists banned did that: even the ones referencing ElonJet referenced stale data)
I don't think so. The New York Times demonstrated this three years ago, nobody really cared: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/20/opinion/locat...
Peer to Peer social media. No censorship, no surveillance and no advertising working with Lightning Network.
Gives them time to think about it the next time they want to doxx someone's real location.
Musk went on to hire a PI to try and find dirt on this person. [2] That sure feels to me like he couldn't stand the heat and wanted to use his money to slander this man.
I think it's courageous to stand up against one of the most powerful men in the world when he randomly decides to abuse you because you spoke the truth. I don't think the fact that he used the court system to do so detracts.
A man named Saman Kunan, 37 years old, gave his life in that rescue effort; he lost consciousness underwater and could not be resuscitated. Another man, Beirut Pakbara, developed an illness during the operation; he spent the next 18 months in and out of the hospital, before succumbing to the illness. I can't find an age, but photos make it apparent he was a young man. All twelve children were saved, along with their soccer coach. [This is mostly a summary of the Wikipedia article.]
With that context, Musk's actions are just so incredibly, unthinkably petty.
[1] https://youtube.com/shorts/VM31A4UsiU0?feature=share
[2] https://www.businessinsider.in/an-aide-to-elon-musk-hired-a-...
This is directly contrary to the reporting in Twitter Files by Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss, and Michael Shellenberger whose journalistic integrity and credentials exceed yours and mine combined by orders of magnitude:
"On Jan 7, senior Twitter execs:
- create justifications to ban Trump
- seek a change of policy for Trump alone, distinct from other political leaders
- express no concern for the free speech or democracy implications of a ban"
https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/16017204550055116...
And the only doxxing related to LibsOfTikTok was Taylor Lorenz doxxing LibsOfTikTok, to the point that Lorenz showed up at LibsOfTikTok's house in person herself. She didn't just doxx her, she went to her house in person. There are pictures.
edit: Rate limited for telling a truth that HN dislikes again...
Here's my reply to the below:
>If they then publish your home address? Sure.
She did publish her home address, after showing up there. Some tweets containing it are apparently still up, as she complained about it to Musk in a thread about the journalists being suspended (for 7 days it turns out).
She claimed the identity of the account was of public interest on CNN here: https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/15182845369660456...
But then showed up at relatives' houses of LibsOfTikTok too: https://thepostmillennial.com/libs-of-tik-tok-exposes-taylor...
Do you mean to tell me that the relatives of that account were of public interest after exposing the account as an American woman?
It was a deliberate doxxing, by Taylor Lorenz aimed at LibsOfTikTok on purpose.
Having $10 billion in cash sounds like a lot. But that's against the $500 billion car companies will be investing this decade: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/exclus...
It's also not much compared to the $130 billion Tesla's top 10 investors have lost on Telsa since the Twitter takeover started: https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/tesla-stock...
And Tesla is coming under pressure to spend their cash not on investments, but on stock buybacks: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-...
As to the future, we'll see, but it's perfectly possible that Tesla will end up in the bucket with Groupon: promising early start, but in retrospect only of historical interest.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-list-government-su...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/07/tech/elon-musk-wsj-government...
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...
https://www.mic.com/impact/elon-musk-build-back-better-tesla...
You don't like the associations that "apartheid" evokes? And yet, for an emerald mine in Zambia, apartheid was certainly a big factor in the working conditions there. The mines in Zambia (mostly copper) benefited the most by apartheid, where white workers were paid over ten times what black workers were paid. Even during the 80s, when supposedly the color bar had been dismantled, mines got around that be defining all black labor as "local" (even if the workers were immigrants) and white workers as "skilled expats" (even if the whites were born next door). [1]
Mining, indeed, was heavily tied to the apartheid from the very start. [2]
So it's very relevant that it's an "apartheid era." You could not invest in a mine in Zambia or South Africa without knowing that you were investing into a apartheid system, and hoping to make money off the backs of the apartheid abuses.
> imply a not insignificant portion of daddy’s money came from that mine
Yes, I agreed that that wasn't backed by known evidence in my statement above.
1. https://theconversation.com/zambias-copper-mines-hard-baked-...
2. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/cjpmefoundation/pages/...
Henry Ford bought a newspaper. Musk bought Twitter. The more the things change the more they stay the same.
I guess a definition of "value" as "the intangibles that allow it to keep functioning" would make your statement correct, but a definition that relies on "how it generates revenue" would probably not.
"In 1918, Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent.[76] A year and a half later, Ford began publishing a series of articles in the paper under his own name, claiming a vast Jewish conspiracy was affecting America.[77] The series ran in 91 issues. Every Ford dealership nationwide was required carry the paper and distribute it to its customers. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Antisemitism_and_Th...
I think Musk bought Twitter to serve as his own platform, to spread his ideas and to suppress those of others.
Elon jet is alive and well over there.
"Members of the British Royal Family en route to Balmoral castle to see Queen Elizabeth after news of her failing health, very sad." - https://www.reddit.com/r/ADSB/comments/x91yli/members_of_the...
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/twitter-suspe...
Last I checked, the police claimed they hadn't received any reports about the incident, either.
You conveniently misinterpreted or even left our crucial pieces of the so called “twitter files” including that the policies of shadow banning and such were already mentioned and known.
Some of the employees were literally asking for reasons to KEEP certain right wing accounts on twitter.
They listened to violations of revenge porn AND TOS violations of Hunter Biden’s dick. The right wing really seems obsessed with seeing it because the links that were all mentioned in the docs were all of his dick LOL
LibsofTikTok causing harassment to children’s hospitals and they still weren’t even banned. No they weren’t promoted in the algorithm but there’s no right to be amplified.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-t...
Even Air Force One shows up on ADSBexchange when it's in the air. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=adfdf8
Now that he forbid people from posting links to that too: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkEg9iyUUAAUFI6?format=jpg&name=...
Doxxing isn't illegal. I thought Elon claimed that ONLY violation of national laws could be the basis for deplatforming. As if his understaffed team can make legal decisions on the spot, and output true/false about millions of tweets that fall into gray areas. They don't even KNOW the whole body of law, and they aren't the judge or jury either.
I had two discussions with Noam Chomsky about how capitalism has co-opted Freedom of Speech, just like it has done with Women's Lib and many other things
In 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HovxY1qBfek
A year later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv5mI6ClPGc
I'm not sure how they can prove much here. All I've seen is an activist in the space supporting him. Specifically https://twitter.com/elizableu
I could be wrong.
Elon Musk @elonmusk "I simply mean that which matches the law.
I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law.
If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect.
Therefore, going beyond the law is contrary to the will of the people."
> Sweeney said he hasn't received any notification of legal action, and the last time his bot tweeted anything was Dec. 12, "which is not last night, so I don’t get how that’s connected.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/twitter-suspe...
Did you really create a new account just to spread misinformation?
This approach won't solve the problem. Especially for a celebrity. Twitter's censorship was dumb before, but this is equally or even dumber by being so prominent and kicking the bees nest.
It's here: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
The source code for the bot: https://github.com/Jxck-S/plane-notify
ADSBexchange (and FlightRadar and several other orgs) are just tracking the public broadcasts each plane makes every second with its location, altitude, airspeed, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Dependent_Surveillan...
Elon Musk himself argued this exact specific thing is included.
Nov 6, 2022, https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456: "My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk"
The data comes from https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af. You'll see no passenger list there.
Maybe it's time for him to follow his own advice.
And maybe stop doing polls, especially ones he doesn't like the result of and must "redo":
That's a pretty twitter-centric view of things
See this https://www.statista.com/statistics/272014/global-social-net...
I have no clue where the hell people get this "public square" analogy from because the numbers don't back it
One of the groups that formed out of it is still active today more than 150 years later.
That's okay, I had to go back and re-check the details of the story multiple times.
Based on your other comments, I think we're probably share a similar view about it. All I'm saying is that, while the validity of the content itself unimpeachable, the story about how it was uncovered is highly suspicious.
> Which contains many thousands of people, many of whom do not get along. It's a minor miracle that it is still holding together at all!
Of course, but they demonstrably put up a rather unified front against the Democrats; Catholics and Protestants hated each other, yet put aside their differences to vote for common interests.
Aren't the GOP currently spearheading an investigation into Hunter Biden's laptop?
https://twitter.com/housegop/status/1593253229747265545
https://i.redd.it/4yfum3kpzy0a1.jpg (I'm too lazy to find the actual tweet)
During the NY Post story, on Twitter you weren't allowed to link to "hacked" material (though this was probably not well enforced).[2]
Twitter changed that policy and reverted the account freezes[3] so that it was fine to link to "hacked" material as long as you weren't directly affiliated with the entity that produced the "hacked" material. [4]
[1] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi...
[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20200603215859/https://help.twit...
[3] https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-ceo-nypost-blo...
[4] https://web.archive.org/web/20210301054617/https://help.twit...
https://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Not-Abuse-Overstating-Respon...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603609466301059073
> Telsa stock tanking all because he can't STFU and acts like a spoiled 12 year old.
Uh, the whole stock market is down. Amazon is down almost as much as Tesla. 48% vs 50%.
It makes sense to me, considering how damaging and embarrassing the content was. If they confirm it, they lose plausible deniability in being able to claim it's fake.
For a large period of time there was a coordinated effort to purge everything from the Internet and paint anyone bringing it up as a conspiracy theorist. It's harder to get away with that if you call attention to the leak and confirm it's authenticity.
Perhaps the laptop truly belonged to Hunter Biden. Without a confirmation or proper chain of custody, it's hard to say either way. It's not implausible that an advanced threat actor, especially one backed by a nation-state, could create an elaborate laptop forgery to 'layer'[0] hacked material into a legitimate news story and avoid the hack itself taking centre-stage like in 2016 — of course, this is speculation on my part.
[0] https://www.moneylaundering.ca/public/law/3_stages_ML.php#:~...
Flights supplying Ukraine were routinely top viewed flights on that website (they were flying to Rzeszów in Poland, so there was no real risk of Russian shooting them down).
AWACS planes and tanker flying in holding patterns over Poland, Romania and Baltic Sea used to be top observed planes on flightradar24 but I should be now working not looking through flightradar24 planes over Poland ( so I will link https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60612255 that has video of inside one of them ).
Obviously planes flying combat missions are not publishing data there. Presumably ones training in restricted airspace are not either for also obvious reasons.
So this stalker followed him home to Grimes' home and there's no police report?
[1] https://observer.com/2018/06/grimes-buys-house-pasadena-los-...
> Sorry, too many options. Will redo poll.
The previous poll was bad because 3x of them were basically "No" and 1x was "Yes"
New poll is heavily leaning yes regardless
> [Other comment:] days after. so by musk's own rules.. fine to post. wasn't real time.
Location of the jet was shared in real-time to my understanding, checking with the link given on https://grndcntrl.net/falconlanding/
> And again, no police report filed. You were dooped.
I see a video of the supposed stalker in a balaclava. I do think Musk took the opportunity to get rid of something he already disliked, but I don't yet believe he faked the attack if that's what you're implying.
I wonder how long it'll be before Musk starts remotely shutting down the Teslas of people who say things about him that he doesn't like.
Here's the short version. Good: thoughtful, curious conversation. Bad: snark, fulmination, and flamewar.
My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15894149585086914...
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elon-musks-daughter-gra...
[2] https://people.com/parents/everything-to-know-about-elon-mus...
Would https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/15/23512004/elon-musk-start... be better? It seems to have most of the same info, just in a somewhat more sensational way.
[0] https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1514938507407421440?s=46&t...
Just exactly what “responsibilities” do you perceive me to have in this discussion? Others are advocating monitoring another person’s property using technology and publishing it on the internet. I am suggesting that there is no reasonable civil reason to do so. The only “responsibility” I have here is to be true to my opinion. I stand by it.
Also, I used the term “cyberstalking” because that is exactly what it is. Here is a Wikipedia page on the term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking
According to that page cyberstalking is the use of the internet and technology to stalk an individual and those actions “may include monitoring”.
Here is the definition of “stalk”:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
“Stalking is unwanted and/or repeated surveillance by an individual or group toward another person”
If you find fault in my definition, feel free to push an edit to those Wikipedia pages.
https://twitter.com/artywah/status/1603592195046400000
(I don’t have a direct link to that tweet, but I’m confident that screenshot tweet isn’t faked.)
Edit: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1518623997054918657
@elonjet can be found on Mastodon at https://mastodon.social/@elonjet
Incredibly, links to Mastodon instances are now flagged as a safety risk on Twitter.
Video of the Twitter spaces meeting, until this link gets removed: https://twitter.com/ForeverEversley/status/16036127708929187...
The same day the $54.20 buyout was announced.
Here’s the definition of personal data under GDPR[2] for anyone who’s curious. If this information hypothetically were to be published by a company with a European or UK connection about an EU or UK data subject and that person were to complain to their national data protection authority we might be in GDPR enforcement territory.
[1] or UK because UK GDPR is a thing even though the UK is no longer in the EU
[2] https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/personal-...
Your comment erroneously claims the reason was "for doing their jobs".
I'd recommend reading dang's comment since you have a lot of inflammatory comments in this thread.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221215173935/https://twitter.c...
Fake news.
>You can see how that might be something a platform would want to suppress, not because they’re Democrat sleeper agents
They suppressed it because they were very awake Democrat agents.
>but because they don’t wanna be responsible for swaying the election because of fake news.
No they wanted to deliberately sway the election, because of their partisan alliance. You can read the story here:
Part 1: Matt Taibbi: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598822959866683394
Part 2: Bari Weiss: https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601007575633305600
Part 3: Matt Taibbi: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1601352083617505281
Part 4: Michael Shellenberger: https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/16017204550055116...
Part 5: Bari Weiss: https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1602364197194432515
Nobody from that camp was lifting a finger when "conspiracy theorists" were being banned from Twitter. People were saying that "Twitter was a private company who could ban whoever it wanted".
Here is a past thread of mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31154200
The space was ended abruptly 30 minutes later and it appears it was killed on Twitter’s side given that the usual metadata does not match what a closed Space has. This Space was being recorded and the replay is not available [3].
Musk now claims that they are fixing a “legacy bug” [4] and this is why Spaces has been disabled. In my opinion, Musk is behaving like a petulant child and his group of cheerleaders look more ridiculous and without backbone each day.
[1] https://twitter.com/forevereversley/status/16036127708929187...
[2] https://twitter.com/katienotopoulos/status/16036045712884695...
[3] https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1603622824177848326
I mean, the hypocrisy of using a jet plane instead of driving for 40 minutes in your "environmental green" car is a thing[2], but shouldn't be enough to randomly ban journalists.
[1]https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1603454821700452365 [2]https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/elon-musk-planes-9-minute-35-m...
Then the so-called "Twitter Files" [1] provide confirmation of what we already sort-of knew that the inside of Twitter was a highly partisan environment creating internal pressures to boot Trump for political reasons, looking for excuses and testing attempts blindly. Note that the process outlined to ban him was to keep testing tweets, the policy team returned "no violation", then they tried the next tweet. Then eventually the executive got impatient and seem to have overruled the process to get him kicked off.
Compared to that, what Musk is doing is rather mundane and palatable. It is more or less up front that he doesn't like the journalists targeting his affairs, and isn't politically motivated or likely to be meaningful.
It has been a couple of years now, there was a big investigation that turned up nothing. Trump is running for president again the usual way and just launched an NFT token so it is pretty clear he wasn't seriously plotting a revolution. Their interpretation of Jan 6 was wrong, partisan and material.
[0] https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspensio...
[1] https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1602364197194432515?cxt...
Which is why there are rumors and calls floating around that the US government should seize control over Starlink and SpaceX, e.g. [1], for national security issues.
The entire debate perfectly shows why neither complete government control over such programs nor complete private control is good - Boeing/ULA were milking the government for cash and acted as pork distributers for decades while showing not much progress, and Starlink's actions in Ukraine show the dangers that independent actors can wield over US foreign policy.
[1] https://fee.org/articles/former-bush-speechwriter-says-feds-...
The thing is, deplatforming works. Banning far-right actors has drastically reduced the reach of their messages [1]. Personally, I see this as a Good Thing, simply because of the potential that spreading hate has to escalate to actual, real-world violence, from murders like in Charlottesville to an outright attempt at instigating a coup.
At every sudo prompt, we get the warning "With great power comes great responsibility" - for good reasons. It's the same with running a social network connecting literally billions of people... those operating them have great power by the sheer market size of their platforms, and a huge responsibility for just how much of the bad side of humanity can be empowered by them. Whatsapp, for example, was directly linked to dozens of murders and severe injuries after lies and propaganda led to lynch mobs [2][3][4].
[1] https://www.niemanlab.org/2021/06/deplatforming-works-this-n...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_WhatsApp_lynchings
[3] https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/chilling-whatsapp-chil...
Twitter only censored the oldest continually published newspaper in America during an election about the Hunter Biden laptop.
[1] https://twitter.com/jack/status/651003891153108997[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-12-15/the-se...
The data published was not just ADS-B data, but ADS-B data + content intended to violate the specific privacy ICAO.
I'm not defending Musks actions, simply providing additional context.
3/5:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33916379
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33366810
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31163090
>I cannot believe you without seeing the material that allowed to make you this conclusion.
You misunderstand something. I make no conclusion. "Based on that" refers to the thread linked. It is you making an implication. It is you that is supposed to be providing proof that those are the same people.
>If you don't answer, I'm afraid I might think that you weren't being truthful.
What's up with that? Is this an interrogation and wasn't aware of? But considering you knew they're 3, will call this dishonest.
> I see replies on Twitter that say things like “why are you arguing with literally the smartest person in the world?” in reference to someone challenging or critiquing Musk
Less terroristy but still super shitty: https://www.vice.com/en/article/4axmy3/far-right-attacked-dr...
If Musk wants to demonstrate a newly sensitive attitude towards doxxing and its dangers, he’s welcome to ban Libs of TikTok.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603235998263123969?s=20...
False. They very publicly tweaked those rules after the ban. (They also include a media exemption, which is being ignored.) https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1603165959669354496
> Project Veritas (also a “journalists”) was banned for over a year for accidentally having an address in one of their videos.
No, he wasn’t.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/15/twitter-bans-james-okeefe-...
“A Twitter representative said the action followed the violation of rules prohibiting “operating fake accounts” and attempting to “artificially amplify or disrupt conversations through the use of multiple accounts,” as noted here.”
“Update: The image was in fact redacted, I thought it was done by the person who took the screenshot but the first digits were removed in the original tweet.”
https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth.php
In the interests of full context, Huey Long was an authoritarian populist and the Reverend Gerald L. K. Smith was a white supremacist by any meaning of those words. (Long wasn’t, but he was certainly happy to work with Smith.)
Given the number of news stories I’ve read like that, from a range of news outlets, and given that Musk is also CEO of Tesla, I’ve decided that I find these stories plausible.
For example in Finland you would likely be violating the radio secrecy laws by merely listening unless you're actively involved in aviation (e.g. flying a plane or sitting in a tower)
In all EU countries you would be violating the GDPR if you stored this data without a lawful basis. (If you're wondering what constitutes "lawful basis", here's a helpful tool https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/gdpr-resources/lawful-b...)
> I doubt the EU courts would argue any other way otherwise we'd need to criminalize tracking of UPS trucks and the like
Why would the GDPR prevent UPS from tracking their own trucks? How is this even remotely related to what we're discussing here?
The latter argument is addressed in the article: "Tesla's value is down more than 52% since the Twitter buyout was approved on April 25, while the S&P 500 is only off 5.5%. And Tesla stock is off 29% since the deal closed on Oct. 27, much worse than the S&P 500's 6.6% gain in that time."
It sure as hell does, just like it applies to movements of cars and movements of mobile phones.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...
https://www.privacy-ticker.com/decision-to-fine-the-norwegia...
> Please provide some evidence of your repeated claim that they're illegal in Europe
What kind of evidence do you want exactly? This is crystal clear to anyone with the most basic understanding of the GDPR.
https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_composition_of_state_legisl...
So on the balance, I feel pretty good about this. For at least the next 3 elections. And if Musk keeps following in Ye's footsteps, he'll be a washed-out has-been by then.
It's bad faith through and through.
Both parties are anti-immigration in practice. The only difference is in their posturing to their respective bases around election time.
Consider that the last major amnesty was under Reagan and the last major tightening of immigration rules was the IIRAIRA under Clinton. The modern deportation machine was really spun up by Obama - he removed more people from the US than any other president, almost 1% of the entire US population was deported by Obama. 50% more than Dubya and more than Trump. [1]
It's been two years under full-on Democratic party rule, the remain-in-Mexico policy is being walked back but still in effect. [2] Children are still being separated from their parents at the border. [3] [edit] The public charge rule still exists, but was returned to the classical definition. [4] Indian-born folks are still in 50+ year queues to get green cards subject to deportation at the whims of their employers. Consulates abroad still have year-long backlogs for appointments to get visa foils so people here, legally, in the US, cannot leave the US as they wouldn't be able to get back in without a new foil. I have friends who haven't left the US in years to see their families.
More of the US-Mexico border wall was built under Obama/Biden than it was under Trump, and Obama was behind the implementation of the biometric exit control program.
[1] https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-persp...
[2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-suspends-biden-administra...
[3] https://www.vera.org/news/children-are-still-being-separated...
[4] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/09/08/dhs-publishes-fair-and-h...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/11/elon-musk-slashed-tw...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/nov/28/chinese-b...
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/twitte...
HRW points out the general problem here, predictably it came to pass less than a month later lol.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/11/02/why-twitter-under-elon-m...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603587970832793600
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737
Here he is claiming that his pinpoint location was shared and that the rule in place is against sharing real-time location data.
Interesting how you moved on from “government involvement” when everyone realizes Biden campaign wasn’t the government and it was dick picks they were trying to remove.
Shadowban was literally talked about earlier this year. https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/5/23012046/twitter-prisoner-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahar_Mustafa_race_row
http://i.imgur.com/iojbGhE.png
http://i.imgur.com/W4uU8ZN.png
http://i.imgur.com/ia3aZxo.png
http://i.imgur.com/8vg96Cz.png
http://i.imgur.com/AWLJS2P.png
http://i.imgur.com/LbS3mdS.png
http://i.imgur.com/tRtLegn.png
http://i.imgur.com/2vP3vyh.png
[1] PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2022/INOA-EA22002-3184.PDF
But it was proven that one side was correct in the case of twitter:
Part 1: Matt Taibbi: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598822959866683394
Part 2: Bari Weiss: https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601007575633305600
Part 3: Matt Taibbi: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1601352083617505281
Part 4: Michael Shellenberger: https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/16017204550055116...
Part 5: Bari Weiss: https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1602364197194432515
Even Greenwald agreed with their assessment. Disagreeing with four of the best journalists alive today seems to me like someone drank some Kool-Aid.
I have seen confirmation about several of the suspended accounts:
Aaron Rupar confirmed he posted a link to ElonJet's Facebook page [2]
Drew Harwell (of WaPo) confirmed "in the course of reporting about ElonJet we posted links to Elon Jet" [3]
The Verge says Mastodon tweeted a link to ElonJet [4]
Micah Lee confirmed he linked to both the Twitter and Mastodon accounts of ElonJet [5]
1: https://www.reuters.com/technology/twitter-manually-reviewed...
2: https://aaronrupar.substack.com/p/aaron-rupar-twitter-suspen...
3: https://boingboing.net/2022/12/16/musk-ragequits-twitter-spa...
4: https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/15/23511894/twitter-suspend...
5: https://theintercept.com/2022/12/16/elon-musk-twitter-suspen...
And it's really obvious why, too: https://i.imgur.com/taGzsZP.jpg
Since HN is basically the nerds from tech, it makes perfect sense.
Are there any Oracle employees that can comment on the hivemind?
You can even see it before you read it. Comments like yours that are entirely reasonable, and trying to protect what HN is supposed to be in good faith are being faded out of existence because you corrected misinformation that they prefer over the truth.
Do you have a citations for this? His son seems to disagree with your depiction of DePePe's political affiliation.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11537665/Son-Paul-P...
> responsible journalism
We haven't seen that in at least a decade.
It isn't! These are ephemeral radio transmissions which contain PII. You might collect those transmissions and publish them somewhere, but that would be illegal.
> nobody has been able to successfully make a case that aircraft movements are cases of indirect PII in terms of the GDPR.
So you're just trolling. That's not how the GDPR works, you don't get to make any kind of case at all. The government will when they eventually get to it after clearing decades worth of backlogs.
And for what it's worth, there are already perfectly applicable precedents https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ETid-851
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Cauc...
Looking at the vast share of immigrant population in the US, "anti-immigration" means something very different from what I would expect.
Orbán's government in Hungary is anti-immigration in the classical sense. Last year, they received 40 asylum requests - out of more than half a million total in the entire EU.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/asylum-appli...
That is what I would call a real anti-immigration policy, at least when we judge policies by their visible results.
ICO's guide to the UK GDPR does have a specific example of cars being identifiable[1] - "A vehicle’s registration number can be linked to other information held about the registration (eg by the DVLA) to indirectly identify the owner of that vehicle." Nothing about planes though.
[2] covers car registrations and explicitly discounts company owned vehicles from being PII - "The registration plates of commercial vehicles are not personal data of an individual as the vehicle is owned by an organisation."
All of Ol' Muskie's jets are owned by Falcon Landing LLC, a shell company.
[1] https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...
[2] https://sapphireconsulting.co.uk/is-a-car-registration-plate...
https://estd.org/narcissism-consequence-trauma-and-early-exp...
“Narcissism tends to emerge as a psychological defence in response to excessive levels of parental criticism, abuse or neglect in early life. Narcissistic personalities tend to be formed by emotional injury as a result of overwhelming shame, loss or deprivation during childhood.“
https://www.farahtherapycentre.co.uk/blog/narcissism-and-the...
I could be making a mistake but I don't believe this is true. Are we looking at the same plane (N628TS)? It seems to have been at Los Angeles International Airport the same day.
It's also not particularly public information (https://archive.vn/cB7Lh). Would you defend doxxing sites like Kiwi Farms, on the basis that they're correlating/archiving public information?
What would it take to change your mind about this? There have already been close calls. Would someone actually have to harm Musk or his family? And you didn't address my ALPR analogy at all. Why does it matter whether the mode of transportation is a car or a plane?
1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603190155107794944
2. https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1603857524574531584
What? Where am I defending Musk? You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the clown. I haven't even mentioned the guy!
Unlike you, I don't give a shit about the guy. I'm just an European aircraft owner who's not a fan of these websites.
>There is no PII in these transmissions.
>To “make a case” for something means to provide a persuasive argument for it. If I had meant pursuing a lawsuit I’d have said so.
Are you kidding? Mere pictures of license plates associated with timestamps have been found to be covered by GDPR, perfectly analogous to what's being discussed here.
http://enforcementtracker.com/ETid-851
Instead of car license plates, we have tail numbers and ICAO addresses. That's the only difference.
That's true, however the majority of people still purchase non EVs, which is not the market Tesla is in. As multiple parts of the world are moving to ban sales of new petrol cars (UK 2040, EU 2035, Chili 2035, Hong Kong 2035, India 2040, etc), there will be an interesting point where most new cars purchased worldwide are EVs.
I don't believe Tesla are the ones who need to catch up to the petrol manufacturer market - the opposite is true. The traditional manufacturers have about 10 years to catch up or start bleeding, as laws will force purchasers to buy an EV.
RE the value loss argument, it is certain that the overvalued Tesla stock is dropping, however that 52% is during a period that tech stocks (which I would argue Tesla is one of) have been dropping like crazy. The NASDAQ is down almost 30% from the start of the years, mostly pulled downwards by tech stocks:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fallen-faangs-nasdaq-wipeout-...
I don't think they're in a worse position than any other tech stock, especially with global legislation effectively guranteeing them a long term pay off.
This article from TC confirms:
https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/15/elon-musk-suspends-mastodo...
Also I get journalists are feeling threatened, but it's a shame to see such a clear emotionally charged article from TC, I used to trust them for unbiased tech reporting.
Are you joking? Lots of EU countries have had this, and still do.
For example in Finland, https://www.traficom.fi/en/services/vehicle-data-and-tax-pay...
In Sweden you can text the cars registration plate to 72503 and get the cars owners info.
In Norway you can look up car owners by registration plate or VIN https://www.vegvesen.no/en/dinside/kjoretoy/finn-eier-og-kjo...
In Portugal anyone can request the registration certificate from the IRN, that contains the owners information.
The governments aren't bound by GDPR and can totally do this, but as a private party it would generally be illegal for you to scrape this data.
>I’ve seen multiple attempts to make the same argument you are by disgruntled private aircraft owners every now and then. None have succeeded in any official venue.
Same is true of literally all GDPR violations, we've only just introduced these laws and catching up on the enforcement backlog will take decades.
Not only that, but most governments are doing a very shit job funding the enforcement authorities.
The obvious solution will be to allow impacted individuals to litigate GDPR violations by themselves.
But it's at least as reasonable to think that people will keep buying EV versions of their favorite cars. Not only is there significant brand loyalty in the car markets, but there's no particular reason to think that Telsa can be all things to all people. Tesla only has 3 models total; Toyota alone has 5 models on the top-25 list. The current Tesla model lineup appeals to a pretty specific demographic, and I don't see much sign Telsa can expand beyond that.
There's plenty of sign that other manufacturers will catch up. Consumer Reports has studied 20 EVs. They recommend 5. Tesla only has one model they recommend, and it's in the middle the scores for those 5. The Kia EV 6 gets a 91 and the Genesis GV60 gets an 84. The Tesla Model 3 gets a 78.
That's all before we get to Musk. Tesla got gobs of free publicity and cheap capital because of his PR savvy. But that has now gone into reverse, with no sign that Musk even thinks that's a problem: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4562466-can-tesla-survive-w...
And personally, I think "Tesla is a tech stock" and "Tesla will become the dominant car manufacturer" are theses that are at odds. Tech stocks are high margin businesses. Niche luxury cars, as Tesla has been to this point, can be high-margin efforts. But the mainstream market won't be.
Yes, there are a plenty of precedents in the usual sense of the word. Such as this case, https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ETid-851
If you're going to argue (like _djo_) that this is not a precedent because it concerns a different type of a vehicle, you're entering into some rather absurd territory.
We have a clear example showing that simply storing pictures of car license plates by a toll road operator was a GDPR violation. Aircraft tail numbers are functionally exactly the same as car license plates.
The GDPR does not at any point discuss vehicles, from a GDPR perspective it makes no difference if the vehicle is a car, bicycle or your personal submarine. Or if there's a vehicle at all! GDPR concerns all PII for an extremely broad definition of PII.
Tracking locations of personal aircraft without consent is a GDPR violation, there really couldn't be a more obvious example of one.
PS. GDPR places the onus on the data controller to prove what they're doing is legal, not the other way around. You are guilty unless proven innocent. The reasonable question is to ask "Is there a precedent for this being legal?".
The answer to that is probably not, because the European flightradar24.com does have a privacy policy anywhere. This alone is blatantly illegal, but the reason they don't have one is almost certainly that their business is fundamentally not legal in Europe.
If what flighradar24.com and adsbexchange.com are doing was legal, they would have a privacy policy explaining the legal basis for their data collection. It's fundamentally impossible for their business to be GDPR compliant without one.
There's also no context in that video, it's just a clip of a person in a car. I do not take Elon's word for anything, he's demonstrated over and over and over that he will act in bad faith. The one party he probably would/should not lie to, the police, doesn't seem to have any report from him about this event.
[1] https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1603454821700452365
[2] https://www.facebook.com/ElonJet/posts/pfbid02Ldh5x93kQe6E6E...
Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.
