zlacker

[parent] [thread] 49 comments
1. greggm+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-12-16 22:23:26
It could be worse. You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows. I currently have 13 browser windows open (each with 3 to 15 tabs) and another 9 windows of other things (terminal, vscode, etc....) and IMO The Cmd-Tab vs Ctrl-Tab vs Ctrl-Up vs Ctrl-Down suck compared to Windows. I really want to easily switch to the previous window, not the previous app. Command + backtick doesn't work either. It doesn't switch to the previous window. It switches to the previous window "in the same app" which is not actually the previous window as that could be from another app.
replies(13): >>ggfgg+e2 >>mitemt+K3 >>blacks+y4 >>jltsir+p5 >>tim--+57 >>microm+kb >>amyjes+yc >>wolver+kd >>hbn+Sh >>millzl+sl >>collin+g51 >>systol+sR3 >>afiori+wX9
2. ggfgg+e2[view] [source] 2021-12-16 22:38:32
>>greggm+(OP)
Honestly that sounds like you aren’t garbage collecting enough. I have perhaps 3-5 tabs open in one browser and 3-5 apps open at any time. Also working in VSCode, terminals and browser mostly.

I coworker runs his windows box with about 100 tabs iOS. Sometimes. Just close some shit.

replies(1): >>willia+Ia
3. mitemt+K3[view] [source] 2021-12-16 22:48:03
>>greggm+(OP)
Maybe you’d like this: https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos
replies(1): >>Sparky+mr
4. blacks+y4[view] [source] 2021-12-16 22:52:14
>>greggm+(OP)
Hmm, I find it pretty practical, cmd-tab from one app to another, cmd-backtick to toggle between windows, I mean, it's a different paradigm, sure, but you can still move around from the keyboard? I do find it a little annoying that there aren't consistent shortcuts for moving between tabs in everything that uses them, could be cntrl-tab, could be alt-arrows...
replies(4): >>gunapo+G5 >>stormb+Nr >>Propha+2A >>alin23+C31
5. jltsir+p5[view] [source] 2021-12-16 22:55:33
>>greggm+(OP)
This was the feature that convinced me to buy a Mac ~15 years ago. When I'm working, I keep jumping between a few apps (e.g. browser, emails, terminal, IDE, text editor, PDF viewer, reference manager), and the additional level of hierarchy makes switching to a specific application easy. Before macOS, I was using both Windows and Linux. Alt-tab was often useless in both, because it was flooded with redundant windows.
replies(1): >>opan+F7
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6. gunapo+G5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 22:56:46
>>blacks+y4
I have alt-backtick mapped to my favorite terminal app in Linux, and control-backtick mapped to a new browser window. I'd be buggered if I ever switched to Mac!
replies(2): >>jacobm+B6 >>dkonof+6d
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7. jacobm+B6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:02:26
>>gunapo+G5
These keybinds are relatively common on Linux too, they're Gnome defaults.
replies(1): >>joomba+Lg
8. tim--+57[view] [source] 2021-12-16 23:05:38
>>greggm+(OP)
The app 'Contexts' will change your life if you feel like this.
replies(1): >>jgalen+Y9
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9. opan+F7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:09:17
>>jltsir+p5
On GNU/Linux with the Sway Wayland compositor, I have a bunch of keybinds to focus a program by app_id (wayland) or class (xwayland) so I can jump to specific windows even on other monitors or workspaces. This wouldn't solve the issue of multiple windows of the same program, but I find I rarely have such a thing. I bind the actions to ctrl-super-foo where foo is a letter associated with a mnemonic like b for browser or v for video (player). I then also made a key in my qmk (keyboard firmware) config where pressing it once acts as ctrl-super and also like a sticky key where I can let go and then slowly press the next letter instead of holding the modifiers down. I've been very happy with this setup.

I do tend to have multiple terminals (local tmux session, remote tmux session, tmux session dedicated to my text editor), which I launch with custom app_ids so that they all have their own separate keybind.

Just to let you know you can probably get something pretty personalized outside of macOS as well!

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10. jgalen+Y9[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:22:42
>>tim--+57
Contexts is great, I like it better than alt+tab on Windows 10!
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11. willia+Ia[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:27:02
>>ggfgg+e2
I tend to agree. I have one window from each app open at any time, and dedicated hotkeys to bring up each app. Having to guess how many cmd+tab I'd need to get to the app I want breaks my flow so I set up opt+h to bring up Firefox, opt+j VSCode, opt+k Slack etc etc.

But obviously, to each their workflow!

12. microm+kb[view] [source] 2021-12-16 23:31:57
>>greggm+(OP)
does cmd + backtick still work for switching windows on a mac? I seem to recall this shortcut
replies(1): >>presen+Mc
13. amyjes+yc[view] [source] 2021-12-16 23:40:38
>>greggm+(OP)
I have to use a Mac for work, and I've been using WindowSwitcher as a cmd+tab replacement. I liked it enough I paid for it at the end of the free trial.

It's excellent, except I wish the mouse interacted it on click instead of mousover. Still better than the default.

(another tool along those lines I use is uBar, which is a Windows-style taskbar for macOS)

replies(1): >>joomba+ch
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14. presen+Mc[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:41:56
>>microm+kb
Yep switches windows for the active app, very useful
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15. dkonof+6d[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:44:18
>>gunapo+G5
Why? Cmd+tilde/backtick is neither of those...
16. wolver+kd[view] [source] 2021-12-16 23:46:45
>>greggm+(OP)
There is no extension or utility that will do it?
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17. joomba+Lg[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 00:09:58
>>jacobm+B6
They're also customisable.
replies(1): >>jacobm+DG1
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18. joomba+ch[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 00:12:21
>>amyjes+yc
Contexts is pretty good too (another cmd tab replacement).
19. hbn+Sh[view] [source] 2021-12-17 00:15:37
>>greggm+(OP)
> I really want to easily switch to the previous window, not the previous app. Command + backtick doesn't work either. It doesn't switch to the previous window. It switches to the previous window "in the same app" which is not actually the previous window as that could be from another app.

I really can't figure out what your issue is after reading this several times. If the last active window was a different app, you hit Cmd+Tab. If the last active window is from the same app, you hit Cmd+`

replies(1): >>addict+5j
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20. addict+5j[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 00:24:15
>>hbn+Sh
I’m not sure why I should be thinking about whether my last active window was in the same or different app.

In windows it doesn’t matter whether I switched from a Chrome window to a Firefox window or from one Firefox window to another one.

The cognitive load is way less.

Also, CMD+’ is way more ergonomically inconvenient to hit.

replies(1): >>hbn+pk
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21. hbn+pk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 00:33:19
>>addict+5j
I guess it's a matter of preference. I use both Mac and Windows and I prefer Mac's way of doing it. Sometimes I'll have 3 IntelliJ windows open + my terminal, along with a dozen other apps that are on other desktops/workspaces that I'm currently not using. So it's nice that I can bounce between the IntelliJ windows for editing my code with Cmd+`, then when I need to hop into the terminal I do Cmd+tab, do my stuff, then Cmd+tab and I'm back in the code. Maybe it's a learning curve but it feels very natural to me.

> Also, CMD+’ is way more ergonomically inconvenient to hit.

What fingers are you using for Cmd+tab if that's comfortable but not Cmd+`? It's exactly 1 key above tab.

replies(1): >>addict+kF
22. millzl+sl[view] [source] 2021-12-17 00:41:45
>>greggm+(OP)
Me and a collegue were having this discussion a couple of days ago. There is a way to do it. It involved bringing up mission control selecting the window then pressing option.

Also there is this https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/

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23. Sparky+mr[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 01:21:45
>>mitemt+K3
Yeah, this app improved my entire life.
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24. stormb+Nr[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 01:24:12
>>blacks+y4
The problem is cmd-tab brings everything up. For example, if you have a terminal window and a browser window next to each other that you're flipping between, but there's a browser window under the terminal window, cmd-tab will obscure the terminal.
replies(3): >>blacks+Mx >>waterh+uL >>laserl+Z83
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25. blacks+Mx[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 02:14:21
>>stormb+Nr
Ah, sure, that makes sense. I guess I tend to be running 2-3 different browsers for different kinds of tasks, Chrome for work, Firefox for personal browsing, Brave for gmail, so I don't typically end up with multiple browser windows in the same browser. If I do for some reason, I tend to minimize all but the one I have been using with cmd-m.
replies(2): >>edoceo+1N >>greggm+Ry1
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26. Propha+2A[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 02:41:28
>>blacks+y4
I don't love it (yet). It's probably a combo of my Windows background, my ignorance of MacOS tricks, and actual limitations/flaws.

* Cmd+~ from a fullscreen window does nothing, and non-full windows of the app cycle only among each other. If I have fullscreen windows anywhere in my setup, it breaks my flow and (afaik) makes me mouse to the Window menu. I feel like MacOS's fullscreen paradigm is more to blame here, because it violates a range of other behaviors I'd expect.

* Unlike cmd+tab, cmd+~ doesn't give me a visual overview of my windows (how many? what order?). I can see why, since cmd+tab shows only icons and app names, which isn't enough to differentiate between windows of the same app (unlike alt+tab on Windows, which shows thumbnails, paths, page titles, etc.

* Cmd+~ also cycles in a static order, not most recently used. This feels like fallout from the second point, in that if you're not showing thumbnails it could get confusing.

The first one in particular took me a bit of time to realize; before I did, it just felt broken and made me not rely on cmd+~ at all.

replies(3): >>Somati+jF >>eyelid+e51 >>collin+E51
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27. Somati+jF[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 03:35:22
>>Propha+2A
Coming to MacOS from Windows (M1 line made me switch) Rectangle provided some nice window management utility that felt more Windows-like (at least for moving windows between monitors and snapping to each side). Never really liked the multiple desktop model
replies(1): >>Propha+iQ1
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28. addict+kF[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 03:35:25
>>hbn+pk
It’s not just 1 row above. It’s also a smaller key.

If you do treat it like you would CMD+Tab, the odds are you would hit CMD+1 fairly often.

replies(1): >>hbn+FL
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29. waterh+uL[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 04:30:12
>>stormb+Nr
I use a free application called Spark, which lets me bind global hotkeys to arbitrary things, and in particular those things can be "bring up the topmost window of application X while leaving the rest where they are". I have it set up so that control-shift-h brings up Terminal, control-shift-c brings up Chrome, control-shift-f brings up Finder, control-shift-n brings up Firefox, etc., and for most of those I have "Bring [to] front the main window only" set. I use the hotkeys many times a day.

https://www.shadowlab.org/softwares/spark.php

replies(1): >>laserl+D73
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30. hbn+FL[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 04:32:00
>>addict+kF
I'm really not sure why you think that would happen. It's like you're saying the Q key is in an inconvenient place because it's too small so "odds are you would hit W fairly often"

It's on the side of the keyboard. If you're on tab, you just feel for one key up.

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31. edoceo+1N[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 04:44:20
>>blacks+Mx
On my Xfce it's been Super+Tab to cycle through app windows in the current workspace for the last 15+ years.

New stuff is cool and all but Xfce has been so boring for so long I keep forgetting I've upgraded.

One time tho, the buttons on dialog windows moved to the top (GTK thing?) - yea, took like a week to get used to it.

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32. alin23+C31[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 07:05:04
>>blacks+y4
I found Cmd-Tab to be too slow for me after coming from Windows where I used Win+number.

I had to create a new app to scratch that itch: https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd

I think the consistent shortcuts for switching between tabs are Cmd-Shift-[ and Cmd-Shift-]

It worked in all applications I used so far.

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33. eyelid+e51[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 07:22:06
>>Propha+2A
You’re totally right that fullscreen breaks cmd ~. It also breaks cmd tab in unexpected ways.

You’re also right about lack of visual feedback, which is disappointing given the various stuff that I think is still currently branded Mission Control, where obviously the fundamentals are already there.

Cmd ~ isn’t statically ordered though, it’s either application specific or based on recent use in a weird (easy to confuse) heuristic. It follows a similar (maybe identical?) pattern to recent use for cmd tab, and even app switching on iOS.

replies(1): >>Propha+JN1
34. collin+g51[view] [source] 2021-12-17 07:22:15
>>greggm+(OP)
When I first switched to Mac I absolutely hated the way the OS handle the alt tab function.

Now I'm a big fan and find it disorienting to go back to Windows but I've been here for 10 years. CMD + ~ all the way.

replies(1): >>greggm+dy1
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35. collin+E51[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 07:26:52
>>Propha+2A
I wasn't initially a fan either but I find that it's forced me to organize my tabs / windows by what I'm working on and I actually prefer it now.

Maybe you need some more time, maybe you need to surrender to the ~ or maybe it's not your jam and that's ok too.

replies(1): >>Propha+6S1
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36. greggm+dy1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 11:27:37
>>collin+g51
I've been on a Mac since 2008 so ~13 years. I still hate it, not the mac, just this one poorly designed feature ... and a few others. I don't want to have to stop-pause-think "was the last thing I used in the same app or a different app?" so that I can press the right key. Further, I only want the last window to move to the front, not all windows of the same app. Quite often (50-70% of the time?) I have say 3 VSCode windows, 4 terminals, and 3 browser windows. I need to switch between say a terminal window and a VScode window. ideally when I moved the VSCode window to the front and mostly on the right side of the screen the last terminal would stay visible but instead Cmd-Tab brings all the VScode windows to the front, covering the terminal. It's useless. Cmd+~ doesn't help, that only switches within the same app.
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37. greggm+Ry1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 11:32:04
>>blacks+Mx
I use one browser with multiple profiles. But even if I ran different browsers to solve that issue I'd have to do the same for everything else. Run 3-5 different editors instead of one editor with 3-5 windows. Run 3-5 different terminals apps instead of one Terminal app with 3-5 different windows. etc....
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38. jacobm+DG1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 12:33:00
>>joomba+Lg
Are they not customizable on macOS?
replies(1): >>joomba+sO1
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39. Propha+JN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 13:24:44
>>eyelid+e51
To your third point, is this a setting somewhere? I tested before I posted w/ 4 Brave windows, but they stay in the same order.

Makes sense, since cmd+~ immediately switches on key down to the next window; cmd+tab (like alt+tab in Win) lets you keep the selection open and choose an out-of-order app, which alters the MRU. How would you do that here? The only way I've affected it is creating/killing windows at points in the cycle. Using cmd+shift+~ for me just goes backward in the same static order.

replies(2): >>eyelid+Us2 >>CRConr+spf
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40. joomba+sO1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 13:28:25
>>jacobm+DG1
Yes they are.
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41. Propha+iQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 13:39:13
>>Somati+jF
Same here, mostly. My laptop since 2015 has been a MBP, so I've had plenty of MacOS experience, but day to day has always been 90/10 Windows. Now that I have the M1 I'm trying to use it daily, so the little grievances are more apparent (but I also have more motivation to solve them).

I've always felt like multiple desktops (on all 3 OSes) have untapped potential, but like you its never worked for me. But hope springs eternal - I try it again every now and then. I'd like to hear more about how some people use it.

Heard good things about Rectangle. I'll check it out.

replies(1): >>gnubis+x9b
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42. Propha+6S1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 13:47:36
>>collin+E51
I use all 3 OSes ~daily and have nits w/ all of them. This one's minor even as it stands, but if I can make it "click" - at least for MacOS-specific workflows - I'd love to. Each OS shines the best if I adapt to its idioms (vs. trying to make Mac feel like Win, etc.).
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43. eyelid+Us2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 16:22:33
>>Propha+JN1
Some kind of interaction with the window usually (again can be app specific) … reverses the order to the window where this sequence started, then may or may not continue the original order.

I’ve seen this most consistently in apps where I commonly have too many windows open, VSCode iTerm and Chrome being the worst offenders. Edit: my worst offenders, the apps don’t do anything unusual here.

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44. laserl+D73[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 19:05:37
>>waterh+uL
I’ve done the same using BetterTouchTool [0]. It’s named very unfortunately because it is able to assign a system-wide function to any input device, even MIDI devices. It is highly customizable.

[0] https://folivora.ai/

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45. laserl+Z83[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 19:10:54
>>stormb+Nr
It’s unfortunate that cmd-tab behavior cannot be customized not to bring all windows in front. It makes a pain working with multiple apps. And, this behavior hasn’t been the case all along, IIRC.
46. systol+sR3[view] [source] 2021-12-17 23:38:19
>>greggm+(OP)
> You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows

Switching between recently used windows, regardless of app, is bound to control+f4 by default. [Cmd+tab/~ is clearly their preferred method.]

You can switch it to something more ergonomic in 'System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts' – 'Move focus to the active or next window'.

47. afiori+wX9[view] [source] 2021-12-20 10:16:13
>>greggm+(OP)
It is always I nice moment of discovery when I learn that yet another feature I hate from Gnome was copied from MacOS
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48. gnubis+x9b[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-20 17:56:12
>>Propha+iQ1
…you know that there are more than three operating systems, right…?
replies(1): >>Propha+CXs
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49. CRConr+spf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-22 00:41:46
>>Propha+JN1
Chose another window with the mouse to change the MRU order, then test the key combos again?
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50. Propha+CXs[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-26 20:43:41
>>gnubis+x9b
Sure, and I'm positive you knew which three I meant when I said it: the three that together probably comprise 4 nines of overall desktop use, and which are compared all over this thread.

UX does differ somewhat between, Linux distros & WMs (and Chrome OS, to the extent you consider it Linux proper), and between releases of all three OSes; but within families they maintain broad continuity. I use multiple variants - again daily - and my point stands that all have untapped potential.

But I doubt you supposed otherwise, nor honestly think I'm unaware of other OSes... so why take the time to ask? Pedantry? Did I slight an OS you favor?

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