zlacker

[parent] [thread] 61 comments
1. willis+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:08:16
I'm not old and I have lived to see this sentiment come and go at least twice before. We're still on Windows.
replies(9): >>Lorkki+t2 >>smolde+93 >>scrupl+e3 >>roody1+V3 >>matkon+zb >>cdumle+cg >>Anthon+Dj >>unders+l61 >>bsder+we1
2. Lorkki+t2[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:19:22
>>willis+(OP)
On the other hand, some of it sticks. For one thing, gaming on Linux has improved by leaps and bounds approximately since the announcement of Windows 10.
replies(1): >>throwe+dA
3. smolde+93[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:22:06
>>willis+(OP)
Then why wait? Programs like Photoshop and Ableton Live work just fine through WINE. I have a hard time imagining what kind of software you can't replace on modern Linux...
replies(5): >>neltne+65 >>serf+P6 >>DashAn+Vb >>tentac+xf >>ahnick+mM
4. scrupl+e3[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:22:30
>>willis+(OP)
Thankfully we have options. I'm planning on moving my main desktop to Arch over my Christmas break from work. It's been a while since I ran Linux as my main desktop, my only complaints have been around gaming performance. I have a friend who plays the same games as I do and he's got everything working on his Arch install. That's really the only thing that holds me on Windows and if it's as smooth of a transition as I believe it currently is then I just have no reason to not give it another fair shake.
replies(2): >>Brando+o6 >>westpf+x6
5. roody1+V3[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:25:38
>>willis+(OP)
I’m not. Linux been main driver for years … even for gaming now (although wine and proton have a big part here).
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6. neltne+65[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:30:01
>>smolde+93
Even LabView runs natively on Linux now, so my reason for the last fifteen years may draw to a close soon. Microsoft decided to put Office in the cloud, so don't need Windows for that anymore... VMware is also quite good if WINE isn't good enough for some reason.

There's some rare expensive equipment that doesn't have Linux support (I'm talking $100k mechanical testing equipment and CNC machines) but those only need one computer each. Of course those probably won't support Windows 11 either, they barely supported Windows 10.

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7. Brando+o6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:35:10
>>scrupl+e3
I try to move to Linux desktop one or twice a year for the last, what, 20 years.

I have Linux on all my servers, was an early (very minor) dev on pre-1 kernel and generally love it.

The desktop is a walking nightmare. Something continuously does not work: multiple screens, waking up from sleep etc.

I really would like to move (we use Outlook but I am even ready to go for OWA) but Windows is considerably better on laptops.

Again, I love Linux and have managed literally thousands of them since 1994.

replies(8): >>aquir+ea >>anthk+Bb >>matkon+tc >>tomber+ye >>tentac+Ce >>virapt+Ju >>scrupl+Jv >>outsom+WE1
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8. westpf+x6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:35:47
>>scrupl+e3
Check out https://www.protondb.com

The only games that I really ever struggle with are ones that have anticheat. And EasyAntiCheat is going linux friendly so something like 95 of the top 100 games on steam will either work natively or via proton.

And with Valve pushing the SteamDeck is see that number going to 100 soon.

replies(4): >>medioc+Y8 >>Blueco+Jn >>scrupl+9F >>johnny+BR
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9. serf+P6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:37:01
>>smolde+93
while these can be made to work .. Fusion360/SolidWorks/CATIA/Siemens NX are notoriously hard to make work, and when they do the fixes usually only last a single patch; and these softwares (aside from SolidWorks) are all always-connected and auto-updating.

and unfortunately a lot of that software is simply career-making.

It's simply an arms-race that can't be won from the consumer perspective without applying adequate pressure to the companies to try and facilitate a legitimate release.

it's hard to run any kind of business software to run any kind of business when it's in the back of your mind whether or not Autodesk has pushed an update to break everything by the time you need to use the software and have actual clients and money waiting for the work.

I'd drop all my windows machines in a heart beat if those companies would consider the GNU/Linux market, but i'm not really holding my breath -- they make a ton of money on their captive audience.

replies(4): >>Initia+Ha >>smolde+Bi >>chris_+zl >>chabad+Yp
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10. medioc+Y8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:45:51
>>westpf+x6
Steam on linux will automatically pull in protondb profiles for your games, so you probably don't even need to explicitly "check out" protondb at this point. Most games will "just work", with the exception of big AAA games with picky anti-cheat engines.
replies(1): >>r00fus+QI
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11. aquir+ea[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:51:38
>>Brando+o6
The same, I always try but go back to Windows because on desktop it's unusable due to silly issues like what you've mentioned
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12. Initia+Ha[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:53:51
>>serf+P6
These are my problem. Situations where "maybe the export is a little wrong because an update mucked with the optimal Wine configuration" don't fly when I'm about to bet the business (or a less extreme version, drop multiple yearly salaries) on a production run of some hardware.
13. matkon+zb[view] [source] 2021-12-16 18:57:37
>>willis+(OP)
Dozens of people switched :)

At least I upgraded Windows 7 to Lubuntu

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14. anthk+Bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:57:45
>>Brando+o6
Odd, I run Slackware-current, with Fluxbox.

To suspend, I just run "xlock & loginctl suspend" from a script being called from a Fluxbox submenu. Dumb easy.

replies(1): >>mattke+Zi
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15. DashAn+Vb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 18:59:18
>>smolde+93
What about VSTs using iLok? Ive only shallowly looked at it in the past but haven't heard good things
replies(1): >>smolde+Gf
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16. matkon+tc[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:01:45
>>Brando+o6
Well, it is not like Windows is free from annoyances.

That at least for me were worse than inability to hibernate.

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17. tomber+ye[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:11:06
>>Brando+o6
Haven't you heard? It's the year of the Linux desktop :)

In all seriousness, until about a year ago when I got a discount on a Macbook and changed to that, I had been running Linux for about a decade across different laptops, and feel that since ~2017 the desktop experience has improved substantially. I bought a new laptop in 2017, installed Ubuntu on it...and that was it. I spent exactly zero minutes installing drivers or mucking with configurations, multiple monitors with HDMI audio worked out of the box, and "going to sleep upon the lid closing" just worked. Granted, I'm a bit of a Linux veteran at this so maybe there were a lot of things I was tweaking that I just don't remember since I do them so often, but I do not think that was the case, since I got my wife (who is not a software engineer) using Ubuntu as well for awhile.

I think part of what made it better was using AMD hardware for everything. The drivers are just included with the kernel, and they work great out of the box, at least for me.

I realize that telling everyone to shop for a computer based on the drivers that will be available isn't exactly a great sales pitch for Linux for the average consumer, but I suspect if you frequent HN you probably have a reasonable ability to differentiate video cards and whatnot.

replies(5): >>tentac+Qe >>bee_ri+Gq >>Decade+aH >>stonem+jH >>ghusba+8o2
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18. tentac+Ce[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:11:19
>>Brando+o6
> but Windows is considerably better on laptops.

I'll concede that if you're talking about the trackpad, Linux is disappointingly bad compared to Windows. It's really really shaky, scrolls up and down with a shockingly massive jitter. You start to wonder if the trackpad itself is malfunctioning. Sadly, the same trackpad works so much better on Windows.

This is mainly about the pointer / trackpad drivers to be fair, but it's still a freestanding issue that has the potential to really bug someone using Linux on a laptop. It gets so bad I have to carry around a mouse.

replies(1): >>stjohn+jj
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19. tentac+Qe[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:12:32
>>tomber+ye
> and "going to sleep upon the lid closing" just worked.

And "not going to sleep upon the lid closing" just works, too! I tried this when I hooked my laptop up to the TV. Closing the lid did nothing. It only went to sleep when you closed it and unplugged the HDMI. I really really liked that, despite it being a tiny detail.

replies(1): >>tomber+hh
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20. tentac+xf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:16:02
>>smolde+93
> Programs like Photoshop and Ableton Live work just fine through WINE.

Could you expand on this, please? What was your experience working with Photoshop in WINE? What version / CC of Photoshop did you use? Did you use PlayOnLinux, which supports this IIRC?

replies(1): >>smolde+4h
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21. smolde+Gf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:16:30
>>DashAn+Vb
VSTs using iLok barely work on Windows/MacOS, I'd imagine their chances of working on Linux to be fairly slim, courtesy of the fact that the DRM is often larger than the plugin itself. Some manufacturers like U-HE have taken it upon themselves to start releasing Linux builds of their VSTs (albeit without support) and they seem to work really well from what I've tried.

So yeah, DRM is still an issue but the tides may be turning, especially now that the audio subsystem on Linux just got a massive rework.

22. cdumle+cg[view] [source] 2021-12-16 19:19:46
>>willis+(OP)
Realize the people who complain how hard it is are the people who are stuck. The people who don't made it out aren't complaining. Get out takes effort, but also it depends on how you approach it. If you look at trying to leave as in "how to run what I have now without Windows OS," you're going to have a bad time. Instead, I would suggest a few approaches that make a transition a lot easier:

_Look at it as opportunity_ Other platforms have other ideas about how things should work. Instead of trying to replace Windows, take the time to realize that it's not the only way to solve problems. The Unix world has a pretty different idea about what's the way to work, which is often foreign until you realize there is a method to the madness. If you want opinionated and guided, MacOS is designed to have very strong "you won't have to worry about that" goal. Linux is the opposite and very flexible. So, you'll want to look at a lot of different distributions, as they all have particular goals in mind.

_Reconsider your current software_ Look at your current software and see if you can find replacements that are cross platform. This can mean software that runs on multiple platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android, iOS, etc). This can also mean switching to cloud/self-hosted software. The software I use I choose through the lens of "if I have to give up my current platform of choice, does this go with me?"

_Sync your environment_ It can be daunting to jump ship to another OS if all your stuff is stuck on a different machine. I highly suggest SyncThing. It is a multi-platform, self-hosted synchronizer. Get a new machine (Linux, Mac) and sync your important files from your other machine. Now, you try out working on the new machine without loosing your work. Install some tools. Try getting stuff done. When you feel you've been held up for too long and need to get some stuff done again in Windows, all your stuff is magically sync'ed. Eventually, you'll find you're doing most of your work on the new machine, and you'll decide what to decommission from the old one.

_VM/Wine/Proton_ Windows support under Mac and Linux has come a long way. Maybe you still need a very specific piece of software. That's fine, just plan on taking time to figure out if you can still get it to work on your new platform.

About 12 years go I jumped from Windows to Mac and about 4 years ago I started working with Linux, as well. And, so can you. Today is your first day to start making changes.

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23. smolde+4h[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:24:05
>>tentac+xf
Photoshop CS6 works pretty reliably on the majority of setups, I remember having an... ahem, perfectly legal copy installed without needing to use any install helpers whatsoever. WINE just downloaded all of the dependencies before launching the installer and it worked like a charm. According to WineHQ[0], the only features it seems to be missing is the updater that came with it. Creative Cloud seems to be a bit more hit-or-miss, but I genuinely don't know many people running CC these days. It might be worth doing your own research there.

Ableton Live 10 works fine though, I played around with it for a while before switching to Bitwig (which has a native Linux build), and I really didn't have any complaints besides the CPU usage being marginally higher than native Windows. I haven't tried it recently either, so the situation may well have improved.

EDIT: just reinstalled my copy of Live 11, it works out-of-the-box with WINE installed and no configuration.

I can't go around making claims that it's perfect, but it's pretty damn close. You may as well see for yourself, all the software (WINE, Linux, etc) is free.

[0] https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iI...

replies(1): >>xxpor+vo
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24. tomber+hh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:24:55
>>tentac+Qe
Oh yeah! I had forgotten to mention that.

I can't really blame people for thinking that the Linux desktop experience sucks, to be fair. As someone who used it in 2012 and went through the pain of getting an Optimus graphics card working correctly, and dealt with the weird rendering issues of Gnome 3, and had to write a bootup script to disable "tap to click" on my mousepad, it's a reasonable complaint to say that the Linux desktop is unfriendly.

I think a lot of people would genuinely like the 2021 Linux desktop experience if they tried it, but I fear that it will be quite difficult to shake the (well earned) stigma.

replies(1): >>tentac+Eo
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25. smolde+Bi[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:32:03
>>serf+P6
You're not necessarily wrong, but the vast majority of recent WINE developments have been going into making it a much more stable experience. The past decade of WINE development has pretty much been about throwing the kitchen sink at your program and praying that it works, but companies like Valve have made some pretty wild overhauls to the system that allow for both leaner and more predictable prefixes. It's still not perfect (and as you've suggested, will likely never be), but the gap is definitely closing. We've gotten to the point where people are confident shipping Linux consoles because the Windows compatibility layer is just that good. Game studios are able to support Linux-based platforms without targeting a build for the OS in the first place. As the technology continues to be refined, I can definitely see some CAD and studio software developers experimenting with the tech.

Much like you, I'm pretty pessimistic about the whole thing. It's safe to assume that nobody cares about it, but it's also still too early to say for sure. In 5 years, WINE could well be a stable development platform for third-party developers who want to focus on a Windows build but also offer compatibility with other operating systems. Stranger things have happened.

replies(1): >>Initia+sA
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26. mattke+Zi[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:33:32
>>anthk+Bb
Good satire!
replies(2): >>opan+RZ >>anthk+Zk3
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27. stjohn+jj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:35:20
>>tentac+Ce
Yeah some drivers are still garbage. My asus laptop works great with trackpad but my dell not so much (it's an older laptop)
replies(1): >>tentac+Ym
28. Anthon+Dj[view] [source] 2021-12-16 19:36:23
>>willis+(OP)
> I'm not old and I have lived to see this sentiment come and go at least twice before. We're still on Windows.

In that time we've seen Microsoft concede the mobile market to iOS and Android and the server market to Linux and Google Docs manage to take a major chunk out of MS Office.

Microsoft is still extremely profitable, but it's not because of Windows anymore. Which is why they're now comfortable risking defection by screwing over the Windows customer more than ever. But that's what happens at the end, not the middle.

replies(1): >>hakfoo+ry6
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29. chris_+zl[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:44:27
>>serf+P6
Fusion 360 has a webassembly version, runs remarkably well!
replies(1): >>hobos_+kD
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30. tentac+Ym[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:50:14
>>stjohn+jj
No shit! My laptop is a nearly 9 year old Dell Latitude. Haven't tried the ASUS trackpads, but IIRC it was quite smooth on an old Windows 8 netbook I had. Really miss that thing.
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31. Blueco+Jn[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:53:25
>>westpf+x6
This is great! Games are what is holding me back the most... I am hoping that the Steam Deck really takes off and more and more games are supported.
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32. xxpor+vo[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:56:31
>>smolde+4h
Does low latency audio work through WINE? I don't care about the specific tech used, as long as midi->hearing audio works well enough to actually play a piano.
replies(1): >>smolde+3F
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33. tentac+Eo[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 19:57:06
>>tomber+hh
> I can't really blame people for thinking that the Linux desktop experience sucks, to be fair.

Nor me. A lot of it has been small things in my experience though, like this trackpad being terrible, or GNOME crashing once in a blue moon. I've definitely not experienced the level of pain you had with Optimus, or the rendering issues, which seems like a good thing. Although... on the subject of rendering issues, Firefox doesn't like it when the system is woken from sleep and has a really weird glitching effect until you maximise and restore the window.

On this laptop Linux hasn't been that bad, honestly the worst thing for me is this genuinely bad trackpad driver that has massive jutter and is hilariously broken. I might learn C so I can look into making my own.

I do agree on your last point(s). It's got substantially better, but as always there are little things that majorly hold it back (trackpad!) when the rest of the system isn't actually that bad. I'd much prefer it to Windows, despite its flaws.

replies(1): >>tomber+NA
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34. chabad+Yp[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:03:01
>>serf+P6
At least for fusion360, check out this project: https://github.com/cryinkfly/Autodesk-Fusion-360-for-Linux

It makes using fusion on wine really easy, and it runs surprisingly well too.

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35. bee_ri+Gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:06:54
>>tomber+ye
I'll typically do a minimal starting distro and lots of tuning, which works decently I think in the desktop world. But whenever I tried to apply this to a Laptop it would fail miserably, I think because my various static configurations don't work great for typical laptop use cases.

Boring old Ubuntu with some DE customization works totally fine on a laptop, though. I don't know why I tried to do this hard-mode for years.

replies(1): >>tomber+UB
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36. virapt+Ju[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:29:23
>>Brando+o6
> Something continuously does not work: multiple screens, waking up from sleep etc.

That's my experience with Windows as well though. On Dell xps on windows my external monitor goes blank sometimes and sleep randomly causes overheating and fast battery drain. On the other hand Linux handles it just fine. Win is not consistently better anymore.

replies(1): >>rapind+jN
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37. scrupl+Jv[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:34:35
>>Brando+o6
I've been running Arch on my 8th (or maybe 7th?) Generation ThinkPad X1C since I bought it in 2018. I've had no issues with multiple monitors, hibernate, etc. I never got the fingerprint reader working but I don't care to use it regardless, so... Otherwise, though, it's been completely solid the entire time I've had it and it's my daily driver for personal project work.
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38. throwe+dA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:56:12
>>Lorkki+t2
Gaming on Linux gave up on trying to build native ports and Valve put some real effort into making their Windows compatibility layer that sits on Linux good.
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39. Initia+sA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:57:34
>>smolde+Bi
It would take a lot of progress for me to bet my livelihood on WINE functionality for niche software (whose customer support I pay for, and whose support agents would hang up on me the moment it became clear I was having trouble while not running on Windows).
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40. tomber+NA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 20:58:44
>>tentac+Eo
Actually, outside of having trouble disabling tap to click, I haven't had a ton of issues with the trackpad.

I also haven't had the Firefox rendering problems, but I think that might be because for the last Linux laptop I had, I specifically sought out a graphics card that was likely to not have any issues.

> I might learn C so I can look into making my own.

I've thought about that too. If I weren't on Apple now I probably would have already started on that, but the closest thing I've done to any kind of "driver" has been to make custom FUSE mount.

replies(1): >>tentac+v91
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41. tomber+UB[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:04:27
>>bee_ri+Gq
Yeah, I used to run a vanilla Arch install on my laptop, and I did manage to get it working almost as well as Windows or macOS after about a week of tinkering, but after a certain point I realized that I want to work on cooler problems than mucking with systemd or dkms, so I just installed Ubuntu and never looked back until I bought a Macbook last year.

I think the newest versions of Ubuntu are great. They've started to give me everything I like about macOS [1] while being FOSS(ish) and portable to any computer I want.

[1] Not comparing Ubuntu to macOS directly, but more of a macOS "feel" in the sense of how I use it.

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42. hobos_+kD[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:11:55
>>chris_+zl
I remember there being a browser beta version, but I thought this was pulled.

Has it come back? Because that would be wonderful!

replies(1): >>chris_+gA2
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43. smolde+3F[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:23:09
>>xxpor+vo
Depends on what you consider low, Live reported that it was around 45ms of latency using the default settings on the DirectAudio driver, I didn't bother to install ASIO4ALL and try it that way though. You could also bring it down by reducing the buffer size, but I didn't really mess with that either. Native DAWs can hit 5-10ms of latency though, I'd bet with a minimal amount of tinkering you could get it to hover around 15ms through WINE.
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44. scrupl+9F[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:23:23
>>westpf+x6
Thanks for that!
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45. Decade+aH[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:32:10
>>tomber+ye
I’m using an AMD system as an OBS Studio streaming system, and Linux was not great.

I first set it up with a Ryzen 5 3600 and Radeon HD 6750, running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, because I thought I didn’t really need that much processing power. After un-blacklisting the driver for such an old GPU, I discovered I was using upwards of 80% CPU and dropping frames while streaming at 1440p, so I decided to upgrade.

Then, I tried a Ryzen 7 5700g with integrated Vega 8. First, I needed to upgrade to Ubuntu 21.10 for such a new GPU, and then OBS Studio was randomly crashing while switching between scenes. Also, hardware video encoding wasn’t working well, so it was still taking upwards of 80% CPU while streaming at 1440p. And the video outputs were finicky, sending windows to the wrong screen on power up. Random crashing is unusable, so I switched to Windows.

With Windows 11 on the Ryzen 7 5700g, the hardware video encoding works well, so the same scenes are taking less than 50% CPU while streaming at 4K (2160p) and not dropping any frames. Now I can do other things on the stream.

replies(1): >>tomber+ON
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46. stonem+jH[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:32:47
>>tomber+ye
>Haven't you heard? It's the year of the Linux desktop :)

Nah, Steam deck got delayed to next year. I plan on going Linux then. :)

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47. r00fus+QI[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:40:24
>>medioc+Y8
Yeah you may need to use Glorious Eggroll [1] for some games.

[1] https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom/releases

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48. ahnick+mM[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 21:58:18
>>smolde+93
Fortnite
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49. rapind+jN[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 22:02:48
>>virapt+Ju
I’ll add that m1 macs have been a shit show for external monitor support (ymmv but google it and you’ll find thousand page long support issues).

It’s either rocket science to get monitors to work flawlessly or it’s the B team working on it. Probably the former given that it’s also a problem on Linux and windoze.

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50. tomber+ON[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 22:05:01
>>Decade+aH
I’m sorry you went through all that. I’m not going to ask you to switch back to Linux, but it might be worth filing a bug report with Ubuntu about this, since I doubt you are the only person who wants to use a Linux computer to stream video.

I used OBS when I was on Linux and it worked exactly as I wanted it to, but I’ll concede that I 1) wasn’t gaming and b) was using software encoding.

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51. johnny+BR[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 22:28:40
>>westpf+x6
the proton side supports various anticheats, but the game dev folks still have to enable support on their side.
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52. opan+RZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-16 23:18:34
>>mattke+Zi
To clarify the parent's comment, he clicks a button in a menu to suspend, he just also said what the button is doing. It's probably less complicated than you're thinking.
53. unders+l61[view] [source] 2021-12-17 00:03:05
>>willis+(OP)
i'm not. i've moved to Ubuntu linux
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54. tentac+v91[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 00:20:53
>>tomber+NA
> Actually, outside of having trouble disabling tap to click, I haven't had a ton of issues with the trackpad.

Ahh, interesting! Not sure why, but it seems that some people have a horrible experience with the trackpad on Linux, while others have a great time (from a quick observation, anyway).

As a dumb guess, maybe it's due to different drivers being used? It's exactly the same on Wayland and Linux, so I'm guessing it's happening a lot lower in the stack (I read something about libinput? Not sure where that lies at the moment.) Grr, so much to think about! Perhaps one day I'll have a much better trackpad...

> I also haven't had the Firefox rendering problems, but I think that might be because for the last Linux laptop I had, I specifically sought out a graphics card that was likely to not have any issues.

Ahh, what graphics card is that? I'm guessing it's not NVIDIA.

replies(1): >>tomber+ly1
55. bsder+we1[view] [source] 2021-12-17 00:57:00
>>willis+(OP)
Office365 being web/cloud based is a big difference this time.

A normal office worker wouldn't have much difference whether their desktop is Windows, Linux, Chromebook, etc.

Office workers follow breadcrumb trails through tech. As long as somebody gives them a document explaining how to follow the breadcrumbs, they don't care about anything else.

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56. tomber+ly1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 03:53:59
>>tentac+v91
The trackpad was using the Synclient Synaptic driver. Don’t know if that helps.

In regards to the graphics card, it was an AMD card, in an Asus ROG laptop. I sold that laptop off a year ago so I don’t remember the card version.

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57. outsom+WE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 04:54:48
>>Brando+o6
Yes the ride you get on a laptop completely depends on the laptop. I have a Dell XPS and everything is working great under Linux with that, except sleep that Intel seem to have screwed with to keep the cpu awake. Other HP laptops have been either a similar ride for higher-end one or quite difficult to get working well for a cheap one.

Part of it is the laptops are developed for windows ACPI interpreter, for windows wifi drivers, for windows system level hack drivers etc. It takes time for Linux to figure out individual workarounds. At least for XPS Dell seem to be developing also for it to work on Linux.

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58. ghusba+8o2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 11:22:06
>>tomber+ye
One problem here is that you always get posts like this. I've seen discussions about Linux on desktop going back twenty years, now, and there are always people saying it was problematic a few years ago and is so much better now. But then always plenty of people still having trouble and plenty of listed in-thread issues with sleep, trackpads, multi-monitor, configuration, compatibility, etc. It seems like you have to get lucky or do a lot of research. Or both.

Windows is always getting worse, too, but still basically works on all hardware. I've been thinking of switching away, given how bad Windows 11 looks to be and how irritating Windows 10 has been. But then, Windows XP, Vista and others were also known to be terrible but still mostly worked.

On balance, I'd say that Windows is likely to continue a user-hostile decline but still mostly work and Linux on Desktop is likely to always have a lot of effort involved if you want everything to work well. But there's probably no point at which Linux will work well on all hardware or Windows will be less usable by default.

replies(1): >>tomber+494
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59. chris_+gA2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 12:55:06
>>hobos_+kD
It’s active.

https://fusion.online.autodesk.com/

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60. anthk+Zk3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 16:27:47
>>mattke+Zi
xlock = locks your desktop with a screensaver (or not).

& = puts xlock in the background so the shell can continue parsing commands without waiting for xlock to finish.

loginctl = sends the command on the right to the login manager.

suspend = self-explanatory.

Thus, upon waking up from suspend, your machine is still locked up by xlock. Simple.

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61. tomber+494[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-17 19:50:48
>>ghusba+8o2
> It seems like you have to get lucky or do a lot of research. Or both.

Yep, no question here. While Linux compatibility has gotten a lot better in recent years, you're definitely rolling the dice a bit in driver-land if you don't research beforehand.

That said, since pretty much every big distro is free, it's not necessarily a bad idea to just download it and try it out, at least with a Live USB Ubuntu image or something. If it works out of the box, then maybe you should install it, and if it doesn't, just unplug the flash drive and restart the computer and stick with Windows. It's entirely possible (and even likely these days) that it will Just Work (tm), and that might influence your decision in switching.

> But there's probably no point at which Linux will work well on all hardware

Yes and no; I think Linux tends to do exceptionally well on older hardware. I've been able to breath life into decade-old computers by just installing Linux Mint with MATE desktop [1], and generally by the time a computer is designated as "old", drivers on Linux are often better than they are on Windows, and due to how stupidly customizable Linux has become, you can get extremely lightweight desktops that require basically nothing to run (e.g. LXDE, MATE).

On newer hardware? Eh, as I said, you're rolling the dice a bit. Generally if you stick with AMD hardware, you are fine, as I said, but that's by no means guaranteed, and to me getting WiFi to work out of the box is the scariest thing, since if you cannot get connected to the internet, it's difficult to fix any of the problems.

[1] I did this for my grandmother who is still running an old AMD64 single-core computer. All she uses it for is browsing the web and checking email (not even YouTube) and she refuses to buy a new computer. Linux Mint has been a godsend.

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62. hakfoo+ry6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-12-18 18:01:18
>>Anthon+Dj
It feels like, to an extent, Microsoft was all but admitting they were giving away Windows for home users (how many of us are still on perpetually upgraded Win7 licenses?) and betting (the desktop software sector) on commercial licensing and Office.

I notice a lot of OEM PCs, for example, come with an Office 365 trial install. I'm sure the OEM deal is "Windows is 30 cents cheaper if you include the trial."

But if the OEM is already installing Ubuntu or whatever, they 1) no longer need to negotiate to shave pennies off the Windows license and 2) have an office suite pre-installed, potentially capturing a large number of the easy customers who'd click on the first thing available.

How does Microsoft keep that sales channel open?

I can't imagine them going the road of the shovelware antivirus vendors and outright paying OEMs for presence. But I could see them packaging up a cut down "Linux Subservices for Windows" product. This would be basically a blessed virtual machine package, which OEMs would be willing to include-- or maybe even pay a token sum for-- because, well, people still want to run their games and legacy software. More importantly, it's a way to get millions of people to install a MS-provided package on their desktops, which could include cross-promotional offers and telemetry. (Yes, there will be the inevitable shut-up packages from third parties, but they have those for Windows already).

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