zlacker

[parent] [thread] 30 comments
1. mushuf+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:50:00
If video games or art or movies are depicting the appropriate scenarios, such as a scene involving army medics, wouldn't that be a constructive use of the symbol? It would spread awareness and education.

A green cross would confuse people.

replies(4): >>bingid+k >>tyingq+M >>crooke+Z4 >>sofixa+45
2. bingid+k[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:51:31
>>mushuf+(OP)
A green cross would confuse no one. It's already used all over the world. You've probably seen it and the color hasn't even crossed your mind.
replies(2): >>jdavis+e1 >>threat+a3
3. tyingq+M[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:53:40
>>mushuf+(OP)
That's where I'm confused. I see the issue with products appropriating it as a sort of brand hijacking...like the example of a first aid kit with a red cross.

But tv, movies, games, etc, just showing an accurate representation of real life, within the media itself seems...normal.

I think if they have to, the least confusing thing would be a red square with a white cross inside it. That's what a lot of first aid kits seem to do. Though perhaps the Swiss wouldn't be thrilled. Maybe a white cross in a red circle?

replies(3): >>ben0x5+K3 >>crooke+s7 >>kipcha+n9
◧◩
4. jdavis+e1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:55:09
>>bingid+k
In my limited experience it’s more of a southern European symbol. For example in the US I’d associate it with cannabis.
replies(2): >>bingid+T2 >>Hamuko+v5
◧◩◪
5. bingid+T2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:03:57
>>jdavis+e1
Well, I suppose with healthcare the way it is in the US... maybe smoking cannabis before going to a hospital is a good idea.
◧◩
6. threat+a3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:05:04
>>bingid+k
It's already associated with weed and pharmacies. The trademark is also already registered in some major countries.

Where do you get this confidence that there's no confusion with the green cross?

replies(1): >>bingid+a4
◧◩
7. ben0x5+K3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:07:56
>>tyingq+M
I don't think games are very good about doing an accurate representation there. They mostly seem to slap a red cross on anything "healing" related, like not-non-combatant military medics (Starcraft medics and medivacs come to mind, which the game specifically expects you to fire at).
replies(1): >>mcguir+lt
◧◩◪
8. bingid+a4[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:10:08
>>threat+a3
>Where do you get this confidence that there's no confusion with the green cross?

The continents of Europe, Africa, Australia... I've also seen it used in China but I'm not as familiar with Asia because I haven't lived there.

I'm sorry, but if your only example is the US then you're likely to be wrong about a lot of things.

replies(2): >>threat+Xm >>pugwor+Xo
9. crooke+Z4[view] [source] 2021-07-09 19:14:44
>>mushuf+(OP)
> such as a scene involving army medics

This is actually a completely inappropriate scenario. The point of the Red Cross symbol is that it indicates an internationally neutral organization that is very specifically not associated with any country.

replies(1): >>alison+fT
10. sofixa+45[view] [source] 2021-07-09 19:15:10
>>mushuf+(OP)
You hit the nail on the head!

Army medics != Red cross, and that's a big difference.

If a red cross is taken to mean just army medics, they might be considered to be "just" the enemy's medics, a "legitimate" target for some, unlike the Red Cross who are neutral and help everyone.

replies(2): >>mcguir+Pt >>alison+kT
◧◩◪
11. Hamuko+v5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:17:33
>>jdavis+e1
Definitely a thing in Finland, which is not in southern Europe.

https://www.apteekki.fi/

◧◩
12. crooke+s7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:28:02
>>tyingq+M
> an accurate representation of real life

In real life, the symbol is pretty strictly limited to a specific international organization well-known for their neutrality in armed conflict. Portraying it as just meaning 'healing' takes away from the power of that neutrality.

replies(1): >>tyingq+qb
◧◩
13. kipcha+n9[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:40:29
>>tyingq+M
To complicate things one further layer down, what about games (Escape From Tarkov's AFAK for example) having products in them that do hijack the red cross, which is somewhat common in real life.
replies(2): >>tyingq+5j >>tomc19+Pu
◧◩◪
14. tyingq+qb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:52:37
>>crooke+s7
>the symbol is pretty strictly limited to a specific international

It's not though. Lots of military ambulances, from many countries, not associated with the Red Cross, have a red cross on them.

One example, there are many more: https://www.google.com/search?q=british+military+ambulance&t...

replies(2): >>bingid+fd >>mcguir+Zs
◧◩◪◨
15. bingid+fd[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:04:39
>>tyingq+qb
These are medical units that fall under the protections of the red cross as outlined in the Geneva Conventions.

"Under the Geneva Conventions, the three distinctive emblems of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal are intended to identify and protect medical and relief workers, military and civilian medical facilities, mobile units and hospital ships during armed conflict."

https://www.redcross.org/content/dam/redcross/atg/PDF_s/Inte... (PDF)

replies(1): >>tyingq+yd
◧◩◪◨⬒
16. tyingq+yd[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:06:55
>>bingid+fd
Ah, but going back up to the top, the Red Cross seems to be unhappy with in-game depictions of this reality.

Edit: Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the Red Cross was complaining about military ambulances, hospital ships, and so on, depicted in games. In addition to less realistic uses.

replies(1): >>bingid+Lf
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
17. bingid+Lf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:22:20
>>tyingq+yd
Because it's used generally as "health" and not "protected health worker" in video games.

I suspect the red cross would not take issue with a game using the red cross to depict untargatable aid workers.

replies(1): >>jhgb+HC
◧◩◪
18. tyingq+5j[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:46:53
>>kipcha+n9
As you say, some actual US military first aid kits have a red cross on them...here's one I've seen in real life: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0106/5435/1460/products/1a...
replies(1): >>bingid+Pm
◧◩◪◨
19. bingid+Pm[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:08:11
>>tyingq+5j
This falls under the appropriate case as defined under the Geneva Conventions, because these would be used by people administering aid in armed conflict.
replies(1): >>tyingq+tO
◧◩◪◨
20. threat+Xm[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:08:49
>>bingid+a4
People have already replied to you to let you know that various major European countries use the green cross to refer to a generic pharmacy.

You already acknowledge this elsewhere, and you've also already acknowledged that there's special meaning to the red cross as opposed to merely referring to pharmacies.

I don't know what you're doing excluding Asia or the USA either, while saying

> A green cross would confuse no one.

And then following up with

> I'm sorry, but if your only example is the US then you're likely to be wrong about a lot of things.

replies(1): >>bingid+As
◧◩◪◨
21. pugwor+Xo[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:20:16
>>bingid+a4
> I'm sorry, but if your only example is the US then you're likely to be wrong about a lot of things.

That is uncalled for.

replies(1): >>bingid+Cr
◧◩◪◨⬒
22. bingid+Cr[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:37:45
>>pugwor+Xo
It's objectively true. The US ignores many widely accepted international standards, and in multiple cases stands alone in doing so. It's not the defacto world view and shouldn't be treated as such.
◧◩◪◨⬒
23. bingid+As[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:44:49
>>threat+Xm
Using the green cross for a pharmacy supports the suggested use as a generic symbol for health...

I didn't exclude Asia, I stated that my experience there is more limited than the continents I listed. The US isn't a reliable authority on any international standards.

If you started up a new video game and the health packs had green crosses instead of red ones, would you be confused?

◧◩◪◨
24. mcguir+Zs[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:47:59
>>tyingq+qb
"Countries around the world protect the red cross emblem and limit its use to official Red Cross organizations and programs, as well as the medical services of their armed forces. In the United States, only the American Red Cross and the medical corps of the Armed Forces are permitted by law to use the red cross emblem. Some U.S. companies were granted an exception that were already using the emblem before 1906. Use of the red cross emblem by anyone else is not only prohibited, but also unlawful in the United States and around the world." (https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/news/2020/...)
◧◩◪
25. mcguir+lt[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:50:47
>>ben0x5+K3
Holy shit. They're medics, they're showing a red cross, and you're supposed to shoot at them. (https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Medic)

Oy.

◧◩
26. mcguir+Pt[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:54:11
>>sofixa+45
Ah, ectually, it's specifically for the IRC and military medics. https://images05.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/ful...
◧◩◪
27. tomc19+Pu[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 22:01:52
>>kipcha+n9
DOOM's health pickups have had the red cross on them, it was released in 1994. DOOM was a widespread cultural phenomenon, at least in the US. Did the Red Cross try to address this at all?
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
28. jhgb+HC[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 23:05:02
>>bingid+Lf
But they're not "untargetable". Laws of physics say so.
◧◩◪◨⬒
29. tyingq+tO[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-10 01:12:23
>>bingid+Pm
Yes, but then depicting a military first aid kit in a game, as it appears in real life...is somewhat normal. At least to me. That's what you see on TV and movies.

And, FWIW, those first aid kits in big green plastic boxes are mostly used by regular soldiers. The medics have different kits in backpack looking containers called an M-9.

◧◩
30. alison+fT[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-10 02:04:57
>>crooke+Z4
That's not true and the OP covers this point.
◧◩
31. alison+kT[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-10 02:05:30
>>sofixa+45
This is not true.
[go to top]