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[parent] [thread] 49 comments
1. pedrog+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-02-08 08:47:19
Hopefully, more devs will do what this dev is (said to be) doing.

> Consider it burned. #Terraria for @GoogleStadia is canceled. My company will no longer support any of your platforms moving forward.

Of course, it's very difficult for small devs to do this. It takes an already solid business to be able to stand up like this. As always, I think this is the only way for Google to change, but I don't think it can happen.

replies(3): >>3327+I >>thetan+9k >>sf_rob+lH
2. 3327+I[view] [source] 2021-02-08 08:52:02
>>pedrog+(OP)
Good on him. Takes courage and an established product to do this.

Good example of standing up.

replies(3): >>DaiPlu+K1 >>WA+H3 >>Bunsan+MD
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3. DaiPlu+K1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:02:19
>>3327+I
Unfortunately this opens the door to unscrupulous devs publishing their own knock-off versions - or even repackaging the official Terraria Windows game and passing it off as their own work (resource/asset swaps, etc).

My impression from reports I've read about all the major App Stores is that they won't put much effort into processing violation notifications or takedown requests when the publisher or developer filing the complaint doesn't have an account of their own on the store - even less when they're banned (like how Terraria's devs were) - so it could be weeks or even months and the publisher of the knock-off or pirated copy gets to keep all the money they've made provided they've transferred it out of their payment account, I think?

replies(3): >>virapt+W3 >>hedora+64 >>rawbot+94
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4. WA+H3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:20:42
>>3327+I
> Good example of standing up.

But he won't pull Terraria from the Play Store I guess. Because he has no choice unless he wants to wreck his business.

replies(4): >>TonyTr+q5 >>chmod7+M5 >>codetr+36 >>gambit+86
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5. virapt+W3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:22:40
>>DaiPlu+K1
> repackaging the official Terraria Windows game and passing it off as their own work

Those would be easy to take down due to code/asset reuse and name reuse. You don't need to be an author on the platform to file DMCA reports. Otherwise, there are already lots of actual Terraria clones by different names.

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6. hedora+64[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:23:55
>>DaiPlu+K1
If that happens, they should sue Google for dealing in counterfeit goods.

They’ll have a ridiculously strong case.

replies(2): >>robin_+z8 >>DaiPlu+db
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7. rawbot+94[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:24:07
>>DaiPlu+K1
The Stadia version is the one cancelled. I doubt Google doesn't have a tougher screening process for games for Stadia, since they are the ones running the game. It is highly improbable that a knockoff game will land on it.
replies(1): >>gambit+J4
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8. gambit+J4[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:29:48
>>rawbot+94
Yep. Also the approval process on Stadia is very complex and you need to set up so.much.stuff. It's not like their playstore where you can release almost anything. Even if you have an already fully working game on Stadia, just the process of meeting all technical requirements and setting up the pages on the backend and all the hooks can take months. It's far too much effort for something that wouldn't even go through the submission process, or if it did it would be removed immediately.

Same reason why you don't see knock offs on Playstation - the approval process is complex, very long and pretty costly.

replies(1): >>rawbot+K5d
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9. TonyTr+q5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:37:50
>>WA+H3
That's actually an interesting point. If it is tied to the same Google account, will he still get money from apps sold through the play store? Can he pull an app from the play store if he cannot even log in?
replies(1): >>dathin+I41
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10. chmod7+M5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:40:44
>>WA+H3
The Play Store Terraria is a different publisher. It's likely not his decision to make - and he shouldn't care considering that makes dealing with Google on that front is not his problem.

Also the revenue of the PC version should be roughly 4x all of the mobile versions combined (twice the amount of units sold, double the price).

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11. codetr+36[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:42:47
>>WA+H3
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.and.games5...

Still there as of yet.

But maybe he means that he won’t be pushing any updates to Google Play?

Current Version 1.4.0.5.2.1

Updated December 8, 2020

Requires Android 4.4 and up

Time will tell I guess

replies(1): >>exikyu+yJ
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12. gambit+86[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 09:43:17
>>WA+H3
Play Store isn't struggling for content. Removing terraria from it has zero impact on Google's bottom line. Stadia on the other hand very much is - removal(or cancellation) of an extremely popular indie game from the platform just accelerates its inevitable demise, something that will very much hit google's bottom line.
replies(1): >>moron4+Mt
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13. robin_+z8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 10:05:49
>>hedora+64
Another way of putting it: if a 3rd party published a Mario game on Playstation, do you think Nintendo would hold back just because they are not also there?
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14. DaiPlu+db[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 10:29:22
>>hedora+64
Amazon deals in counterfeit goods all the time and there's still been no substantial changes to how they deal with it either.

If you sue a behemoth like Google or Amazon, they'll likely gladly make a settlement with you that's considerably greater than the actual damages because they value the NDAs and lack-of-PR damage from the inevitable Wall St. Journal headlines...

replies(1): >>gnopgn+ue
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15. gnopgn+ue[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 11:01:15
>>DaiPlu+db
The difference there is Amazon is not creating copies like you would with software
16. thetan+9k[view] [source] 2021-02-08 11:59:53
>>pedrog+(OP)
I think it's also probably easy to do this with stadia since it's effectively 0 users. What would he say if steam treated devs like google does?
replies(4): >>brmgb+4y >>keving+WA >>andrew+sU >>kingbi+CB1
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17. moron4+Mt[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 13:14:48
>>gambit+86
Even if they haven't said it out loud, Google has already decided to cancel Stadia, so unfortunately cancelling a game for it will have zero impact on Google.
replies(2): >>delect+zz >>seanki+Vm1
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18. brmgb+4y[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 13:38:14
>>thetan+9k
If Valve treated game developers like Google does, Steam would have followed the path of Stadia which is failing despite being technically a good product.

That's my personal take on the current situation: despite owning one of the largest digital store, Google sucks at being a publisher. The actual automated ban is mostly inconsequential. Every large publishers have technical issue from time to time. What's unique to Google is that you can't effectively contact anyone to have them sorted out.

If you are an indie dev with a track record and works with Steam, XBLA, Epic or Nintendo, you will be in touch with a company representative.

replies(3): >>newswa+211 >>cables+jd1 >>astran+8W1
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19. delect+zz[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 13:46:51
>>moron4+Mt
Google closed one of their first party Stadia game development studios. They haven't decided to cancel Stadia as a whole yet, at least not publicly.
replies(1): >>moron4+lC
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20. keving+WA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 13:53:53
>>thetan+9k
Many smaller devs have pivoted to leverage alternative platforms like Itch, Epic Games Store, Game Pass, etc alongside Steam for monetization, and some have ditched Steam entirely based on complaints with Valve's developer relations and pricing. Valve seems unlikely to ever make any concessions to win back the hearts of smaller developers, but they did panic once Epic Games Store and other storefronts started capturing exclusives for large titles by offering big studios a reduced cut (20-25% in some cases) to keep them around.

Another way to look at this: Valve's treatment of developers (not nearly as bad as Google, to be clear) is mostly tolerated because of Steam's inertia and market share. Google is acting like Stadia has inertia and market share when it has neither.

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21. moron4+lC[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 14:00:26
>>delect+zz
We've seen the playbook often enough. If you think they aren't going to close it down in 3 years, you're wasting money.
replies(2): >>delect+OD >>Sohcah+1c2
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22. Bunsan+MD[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 14:06:38
>>3327+I
Not really, Terraria has already been ported to all systems, including Android.

the amount of people using Stadia that don't have access to a device that could play terraria is likely very small.

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23. delect+OD[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 14:07:00
>>moron4+lC
Stadia hasn't gotten a dollar from me, and won't. I absolutely think it'll be gone by then, but that's not the same thing as "has already decided to cancel".
24. sf_rob+lH[view] [source] 2021-02-08 14:24:25
>>pedrog+(OP)
Agreed about small devs, but other small devs also have to make countless decisions about which platforms/products to use for their app/platform/website. At the very least, Google should be worried that a good tie-breaker is "Is it a Google platform?".
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25. exikyu+yJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 14:33:28
>>codetr+36
Google Play / Android != Stadia
replies(1): >>dathin+Z31
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26. andrew+sU[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 15:18:14
>>thetan+9k
It's interesting you don't consider Android one of Google's platforms.
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27. newswa+211[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 15:46:46
>>brmgb+4y
> technically a good product.

Do you mean with technology or something like "technically it could have worked in the market"? Because if its the latter then I disagree. Its a service on which my entire library can disappear, I have to pay full price + subscription price and maybe buy new hardware (to play on TVs). I have no idea who this is for.

replies(2): >>brmgb+CA1 >>tomc19+Oc2
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28. dathin+Z31[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 15:59:22
>>exikyu+yJ
> Consider it burned. #Terraria for @GoogleStadia is canceled. My company will no longer support *any of your platforms* moving forward.

Emphasis mine.

But isn't Terraria "complete" in the sense that maybe besides some bug fix there won't really be any updates anymore? (But potential successors to Terraria??)

Also given that it's about "moving forward" I highly doubt they will revert any existing support.

But their next game(s) might very likely not ship on Google Play (but potential alternative App stores).

In the end I guess their main marked is anyway Steam followed by the consoles (Switch, Playstation, XBox).

I just wonder if they sell more on GooglePlay or on the Apple App Store?

replies(2): >>exikyu+Mc1 >>ajford+7k1
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29. dathin+I41[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 16:02:41
>>TonyTr+q5
He is a private person.

The games are published by an indie game studio.

Normally this is done over an separate, non personal, account. Sometimes even multiple non personal accounts for multiple products.

So RE-LOGIC's Google account should not have been affected.

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30. exikyu+Mc1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 16:38:37
>>dathin+Z31
Oh, right. Completely overlooked that bit.

I agree with you. It certainly will be interesting to see how this works out...

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31. cables+jd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 16:40:54
>>brmgb+4y
> If you are an indie dev with a track record and works with Steam, XBLA, Epic or Nintendo, you will be in touch with a company representative.

Yep. I worked for a small video game publisher with only four people in the entire company and we had a designated account representative at Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft we could (and did) contact when we had issues.

Might be harder as an indie dev, but if you have any track record, like you said, I'm sure they know someone they can contact.

replies(1): >>8yteco+ep1
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32. ajford+7k1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 17:10:41
>>dathin+Z31
The Android port appears to be published by 505 Games and Codeglue, and more recently Pipeworks, according to Wikipedia.

It's likely that the primary devs have little to no control of that port, including the ability (and possibly ip rights) to take it down.

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33. seanki+Vm1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 17:22:37
>>moron4+Mt
> Google has already decided to cancel Stadia

I believe you were going for hyperbole, but it reads more like misinformation instead. Please reconsider saying misleading shit like this, especially on HN.

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34. 8yteco+ep1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 17:35:04
>>cables+jd1
We were a really low volume AWS customer. We had an account representative.
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35. brmgb+CA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 18:32:10
>>newswa+211
> Do you mean with technology or something like "technically it could have worked in the market"?

Yes, I mean the technology. I played cyberpunk on it. It worked really well (better than I expected a streaming service to work).

> I have to pay full price + subscription price and maybe buy new hardware (to play on TVs).

You just need to pay the game to play in 1080p. The pro tier is if you want 4k and comes with free games. You can actually play free to play games like Destiny 2 for free on Stadia.

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know however. Google marketing was terrible.

replies(2): >>newswa+VJ1 >>Ashanm+z32
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36. kingbi+CB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 18:37:50
>>thetan+9k
His post implies he's dropping support for all Google platforms, presumably including Android, where Terraria is consistently one of the top selling games. That seems like a much more difficult decision.
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37. newswa+VJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 19:17:33
>>brmgb+CA1
> You just need to pay the game to play in 1080p...pro tier...4k and comes with free games

This has to be the most bizarrely conceived product strategy ever. I know I am not a gamer, but... who is this targeting?

replies(1): >>LegitS+hZ4
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38. astran+8W1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 20:20:28
>>brmgb+4y
Valve does treat game developers poorly, and it can’t be fixed because their no-internal-structure setup means nobody can actually change anything at the company. They’re bad at dealing with Japanese content, if you get a reviewer who decides it’s “more gross anime shit” (as millenials like to do) they ban your game sight unseen with no appeal. Kind of a problem when the newer younger people into anime aesthetic are also the ones making all the LGBT content.
replies(2): >>adnzzz+i42 >>brmgb+4g3
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39. Ashanm+z32[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 21:00:18
>>brmgb+CA1
Your mileage may very depending on a variety of factors. I got a free Stadia kit (controller + Chromecast Ultra) for being a YouTube Premium/Music subscriber, and decided I'd give a good and honest attempt at playing through a full game on Stadia.

I played through Superhot and the best I can say is latency is impressive given it's beaming my inputs to a server, rendering, and beaming the frames back to me (though still not as good as just playing locally). But I had some horrible issues. Several play sessions had to end because my internet was being unreliable, as home internet tends to do. Not sure if someone started streaming Netflix or what, but that's kind of the issue -- I don't want someone else doing something on my network to be able to affect my gameplay session. Or if my ISP is just experiencing high traffic, or if the internet in my neighbourhood goes out, etc. There's so much that can and does go wrong, even if it's 99.9% reliable, that's not near enough for a video game.

Thankfully the game I was playing wasn't particularly time-sensitive, if it started lagging I could stop for a second and the game doesn't move forward (that's just how Superhot works, for anyone who isn't familiar). But I was seeing on the front page of the store you can buy Celeste and I just could not imagine playing a precision platformer like that with the bit of latency that exists, plus the possibility I get a lag spike and by the time it catches up I'm already dead and restarting the segment.

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40. adnzzz+i42[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 21:03:33
>>astran+8W1
As an indie dev I disagree very heavily with this. Games like Hentai Nazi (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1183970/Hentai_Nazi/) are allowed to be on the store because they're generally very permissive, as long as you're following the laws that they have to follow because they're in America. If you're making games with sexual content and characters of questionable age (as many of these banned anime games do), then it's reasonable that some of them will get banned, since Valve has to obey the law.
replies(1): >>astran+Tk2
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41. Sohcah+1c2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 21:41:15
>>moron4+lC
> "If you think they aren't going to close it down in 3 years, you're wasting money."

and

> "Google has already decided to cancel Stadia"

mean entirely different things. Of course people expect Stadia to get cancelled, but to claim they've already decided to cancel it is disinformation. It's a blatant lie. Don't spread fake news.

replies(1): >>moron4+RC2
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42. tomc19+Oc2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 21:45:47
>>newswa+211
> I have no idea who this is for.

It's for Google, trying out rent-seeking in a consumer channel with high fixed costs

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43. astran+Tk2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 22:26:53
>>adnzzz+i42
Yes, those are ironically more likely to make it through because it makes it look like they’re following through on their promise to not moderate any store content. It’s all luck though, we don’t know what never made it in.

Actual foreign developers who don’t speak English don’t have as much luck explaining themselves as indie irony-VN devs and can’t fix problems if Valve sees a picture of an anime and decides it was questionable sexual content when it wasn’t.

(Often it does still work out, some of the VNs had some really out there actual sexual content because they’re weirdos and the work was improved by removing it for Steam/Nintendo platform so

replies(1): >>fuzxi+mt2
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44. fuzxi+mt2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-08 23:11:47
>>astran+Tk2
Do you have evidence of this still happening? I know games getting rejected for no real reason was somewhat common back around the Greenlight era, but I haven't heard anything like that since they moved to the minimum moderation system and started allowing porn games.
replies(1): >>astran+uX2
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45. moron4+RC2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-09 00:18:50
>>Sohcah+1c2
No, the fake news is Google having any plans to make anything out of Stadia. They don't just decide the night before to shut a project down. Google has a long history of leaving projects to fallow for months to years before finally admitting to everyone that they hadn't been putting resources in and are finally shutting the project down. It's insidious because, if you don't know the playbook, you might think you can count on the service to stick around. Look at everything VR they did: some great products that sat around for a full year before Google finally admitted they weren't doing anything more with it. I fully expect Google has plans already to shut down Stadia, but haven't told anyone yet because... I don't know why. Why do they ever just let this shit go on forever? Sims kind of face-saving or senior-engineer-retention program.
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46. astran+uX2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-09 03:31:06
>>fuzxi+mt2
https://twitter.com/DistantValhalla/status/12561308666670325...

The difference is that now when they moderate, they call it something other than moderation and instantly permaban you and refuse to discuss it.

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47. brmgb+4g3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-09 06:54:46
>>astran+8W1
> Valve does treat game developers poorly

Valve definitely doesn't treat developers poorly (well their commission is too big but they are quite reasonable in how they interact with developers).

> They’re bad at dealing with Japanese content, if you get a reviewer who decides it’s “more gross anime shit” (as millenials like to do) they ban your game sight unseen with no appeal.

No, they don't do that. They ban games involving sexualisation of minors (e.g. your Twitter links below). Also I don't think there is a millennial conspiracy regarding Japanese content. I'm French I have literally been raised on Japanese import and the content you are linking seriously creeps me out.

replies(1): >>astran+PFh
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48. LegitS+hZ4[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-09 19:05:30
>>newswa+VJ1
I think the only way it makes sense is if you can't afford the upgrade to a new console or PC, and even then the issue is that my experience with Stadia's stability and lag make it not appropriate to play response-timing sensitive games.

People playing tekken don't even like it when one of the players is on wifi, because the difference in response time changes the game. On Stadia its a non starter.

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49. rawbot+K5d[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-12 11:17:43
>>gambit+J4
Well... https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1747-CUSA07311...
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50. astran+PFh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 06:03:28
>>brmgb+4g3
> Valve definitely doesn't treat developers poorly (well their commission is too big but they are quite reasonable in how they interact with developers).

I'm including their own employees under game developers. There's various stories about people having to leave after trying and failing to get the company to actually make a game or ship any products lately.

> They ban games involving sexualisation of minors (e.g. your Twitter links below).

Dunno if the games contain that or not, all I can tell you is they don't have illegal content in the US. They certainly can ban whatever they want. The problem is they say they don't moderate the store, and they don't negotiate the not-moderation, so now you can't find out how to avoid it.

The developers are not criminals or trying to gross you out, but they do have weird fetishes and I think might be physically incapable of making something Westerners would be fine with without a lot of handholding. I mean, Jun Maeda seems to think he's doing a good job at writing women, but they all come out acting like they have an IQ of 10.

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