All of these extra costs associated with overtime etc because of these riots and looting are a direct result of employing shitty cops and completely avoidable. The costs should be taken directly from the pension funds of cops as far as I’m concerned, cities should not bear the costs of overtime because of riots caused by cops killing people.
If we had a critical mass of good cops, we likely would need less overtime overall because the relationship would be better between law enforcement and citizens, especially minorities.
Police need to remember they serve us, and by taking the job, they have vowed to put their lives on the line for people. We have no need for cowards who fear for their life and just shoot every possible threat.
Law enforcement is already a sweet gig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rKA6ROAVk
(Newport Beach Police Department recruiting video, from 2008)
And the problem is just the salary and QI? I don't think so.
> More than crime, modern police forces in the United States emerged as a response to "disorder." What constitutes social and public order depends largely on who is defining those terms, and in the cities of 19th century America they were defined by the mercantile interests, who through taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. These economic interests had a greater interest in social control than crime control. [2]
--
[0]: http://www.lapdonline.org/history_of_the_lapd/content_basic_...
[1]: https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-y...
[2]: https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/history-policing-united...
Meanwhile fast food employees on minimum wage get fired for much, much, much, much less.
I think the problem lays elsewhere.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-jos...
Doubling the total compensation there would mean about 50% of those people would be making 500k+/year. I don't think they're as underpaid as you think they are. Most of those people on that list already make more than me as a non-FAANG Software Engineer in the region.
Basically I think it would be good if we could separate cops into two classes, armed and unarmed. And to earn the privilege to carry a gun, they need to prove themselves to prioritize deescalation first and foremost. They need to live up to the badge, actually working to serve and protect, not be a coward who needs to pull out a gun to handle an unarmed civilian.
[0] https://azplea.com/plea-news/the-plea-store-is-open-for-busi...
https://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2016/09/11/Weirton...
Paying more doesn't guarantee 'higher quality' but it sure helps.
(Are there any attorneys on HN familiar with, for instance, the rights to privacy of the deceased? I'm pretty sure they don't have any.)
I think it's best just to file a civil suit rather than trying to set up a system that the Supremes could very well deem unconstitutional.
What might work is for municipalities to write into police labor agreements that XX% share of any civil judgement precipitated by your actions will be borne by you alone. You're still jointly and separately liable, but the municipality would be able to go after the officer in a separate action.
Something along those lines would accomplish the same thing without bringing constitutional questions into it.
Why do we pay for police with our taxes if they aren't obligated to protect anyone?
American cops already seem to murder with impunity, it’s hard to see how more accountability could possibly make them worse.
I am opposed to punitive justice vis-a-vis restorative and rehabilitative but this is the system we are in.
A police officer who steals or murders is offending the community on multiple fronts.
State,PDSalary,Median,Difference
Alabama,"42,383.00","49,396.00","-7,013.00"
Alaska,"48,418.00","68,400.00","-19,982.00"
Arizona,"44,987.00","62,311.00","-17,324.00"
Arkansas,"42,668.00","49,778.00","-7,110.00"
California,"47,600.00","70,001.00","-22,401.00"
Colorado,"45,488.00","72,620.00","-27,132.00"
Connecticut,"48,738.00","73,011.00","-24,273.00"
Delaware,"45,549.00","65,002.00","-19,453.00"
Florida,"40,904.00","54,401.00","-13,497.00"
Georgia,"43,399.00","56,000.00","-12,601.00"
[1] https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Po...
[2] https://dqydj.com/average-income-by-state-median-top-percent...
Alternatively, you could require insurance, similar to medical malpractice insurance, that pays out for law enforcement malfeasance. If you’re uninsurable due to your actions (egregious and/or chronic), you’re no longer a cop. The cost to your colleagues (premiums) also goes up because of your behavior.
This takes the financial burden off taxpayers, but still uses economic incentives to encourage the behavior we expect from public servants.
It puts a strong incentive on those to take responsibility for their coworkers. To cultivate a culture of integrity, through interactions, through hiring and firing, through setting an example for those you lead. Cops love to talk about having each other's backs; let's see them put those words into action where it counts.
So we should compensate cops the equivalent salary of a software developer, to create incentives for a career change, and then we can train former cops as software developers. We might end up with more bugs in software, but at least there will not be any police abuse any more.
He kept getting freebies and discounts on his after work shopping trips and he didn't realise why until he caught his reflection in his mirror and realised his police lanyard was showing, people thought he was a cop!
He also on more than one occassion got pulled over for breath tests and/or speeding only to get flagged on when they saw his lanyard. He reckons he would have looked like a sergeant(? Can't remember exactly) due to his suit and the car he had and the cops wouldn't have wanted to piss off a superior.
If the person suing "dies in a random armed robbery, so sad", are you going to put maximum effort into investigating their murder?
If you see your coworker destroying evidence of misconduct, do you look the other way because reporting it costs everyone in the department money?
Premiums could be priced in such a way that it takes into account your personal record, to incentivise your own behaviour; your local/metro PD's record, to incentivise them policing each other; and the state's record in an attempt to address systemic and cultural issues.
Your body cam "malfunctioned"? Congratulations, you just increased the insurance premiums for yourself and all your colleagues.
Anyway, anyone with half a brain can see that logging risks are accidental and not due to combat and violent confrontation
Unless these are LOTR ents of course
Let's say you get hurt falling off a tree. You wont suffer violence.
You ever been in a fight? Ever? This is a real question. Answer it please.
Those salaries are also in line with the average salary.
Which is very very good in US, compared to the rest of the World.
For comparison, in Italy a policeman earns on average 60% of the lowest salary you posted.
it is supposed to be a working class job, with good men doing it, not a "professional highly paid killer's job".
p.s.: 50% of Americans earn less, 30% earn much less, than that.
So yeah, it's good, especially for being one of the worst police force in the western World.
Victims of police shootings in US 2019: 1.004
Victims of police shootings in Europe 2019: 60 (including Switzerland, that's never been EU - zero kills - and UK which is not in EU anymore - 3 kills -). But let's round it to one hundred, still an order of magnitude less, in the face of a comparable population size.
If I was the US government I would expect a better job from them, before paying them more.
p.p.s.
To be even more precise:
Total Line of Duty Deaths 2019: 147
Including 24 9/11 related cancer, 22 automobile crashes and 19 heart attacks.
Only 48 died because of a gunfire, so for every cop who died in a gunfire, they killed 21 people.
It looks scary to me, I don't know what do you think about it.
I consider the police in my country (Italy) to be quite brutal, but we had only 5 officers killed in 2019 and 3 people shot dead by the police.
The idea that policing is inherently dangerous is most useful to police when negotiating the next contract.
Carrying a gun as a police officer is a privilege because of all the power and authority that comes with it.
Tell me why the Mexican Mafia has no teeth. Enlighten me. Tell me why the Aryan Brotherhood is less dangerous than Kubernetes
It’s not ever worth discussing with y’all, seriously. The privilege here is so insane, you’ve obviously never been anywhere near a ghetto