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[parent] [thread] 44 comments
1. idontw+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-01-26 16:54:28
I wonder if the EU will begin trying to recruit American software engineers. I’d love to move to France.
replies(5): >>captai+B >>dlahod+61 >>nehal3+92 >>the_sl+M3 >>ivolim+Ue
2. captai+B[view] [source] 2026-01-26 16:57:08
>>idontw+(OP)
I doubt Americans will even pick up the phone or respond to LinkedIn messages / emails when they will se the budgets for the software Engineering roles in the EU.

I am saying that as an European, just to be clear.

replies(3): >>toomuc+P1 >>idontw+M9 >>swiftc+cn
3. dlahod+61[view] [source] 2026-01-26 16:58:30
>>idontw+(OP)
Will not. You should love to move youself to pay 30% more taxes and work for 30% less salary (not sure what percentage to apply first).
replies(2): >>captai+Y3 >>swiftc+yp
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4. toomuc+P1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:00:25
>>captai+B
Not everyone is optimizing for total comp. Some are optimizing for better lives. It's not a wild concept considering how many people get pulled into startups, 90% of which fail, under the guide of "mission" and lower market comp. Do you pick a mostly assured better quality of life? Or an equity payout lottery ticket/fairy tale? Certainly, there is a minority of folks making wild comp at FAANG, but that is a privileged minority of total tech and IT workers.
replies(2): >>baal80+y4 >>tick_t+191
5. nehal3+92[view] [source] 2026-01-26 17:01:38
>>idontw+(OP)
Why wait? If you can get a work visa you might as well, independent of this push. English proficiency in France isn't amazing though (speaking as a Dutchman that visits France most summers), so learning French would be a big help.
replies(1): >>idontw+ob
6. the_sl+M3[view] [source] 2026-01-26 17:07:43
>>idontw+(OP)
They've been incentivizing it for years. Talent passport, EU Blue card and the Tech Visa. As I have heard they'll pay you to move there.

Expect 50% salary and taxes that will make your eyes water. French bureaucracy is kafkaesque even in 2026.

Other than that I agree I'd love to move there.

replies(3): >>eloisa+06 >>eb0la+Un >>rapnie+Po
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7. captai+Y3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:08:21
>>dlahod+61
more like 50+ % less salary, just saying
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8. baal80+y4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:10:14
>>toomuc+P1
> Some are optimizing for better lives

Of course. I just hope these people know that for example healthcare in Europe is by no means free.

replies(3): >>toomuc+J4 >>ceejay+j6 >>janspe+LJ2
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9. toomuc+J4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:10:59
>>baal80+y4
My health insurance for a family of four in Spain is $2k/year. In the US, it was exceeding $25k/year with premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. While not free, it is accessible.

There was a time in my life we had to decide in the middle of the night if we could afford to take one of our children to the ER in the US when they were a newborn. I will never have that feeling in Europe, and that is priceless. Tax me more, I will happily contribute to a functioning governance system. I like taxes, with them I contribute to civilization. As an American, I am all in on Europe. It's not perfect, but the bar is in hell.

We Asked 300 People About Health Care Costs. The Numbers Are Shocking. - https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/22/opinion/health-insurance-... | https://archive.today/MnYz9 - January 22nd, 2026

replies(3): >>znkynz+Ft >>tick_t+x91 >>durkie+cV2
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10. eloisa+06[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:17:11
>>the_sl+M3
Taxes are not really an issue because of the services you get out of it: free healthcare, free education for your kids, etc.

But yes, salary before taxes is much lower than in the US. If your goal is to make as much money as possible, either stay in US or move to a different European country (Northern Europe or Switzerland).

replies(2): >>nxm+37 >>toephu+ho
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11. ceejay+j6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:18:10
>>baal80+y4
It's not free, but it's much cheaper. (And yes, that includes taxation.)

https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/health-spending.html

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OECD_health_expendit...

As a bonus, all that spend doesn't make us better in outcomes.

https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low#life-expec...

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12. nxm+37[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:20:26
>>eloisa+06
As a software engineer in the US you're not really worrying about access to health care, and have access to public schools as well.
replies(5): >>belter+Cb >>Insani+ed >>tracer+8f >>iamEAP+zn >>znkynz+3u
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13. idontw+M9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:30:19
>>captai+B
With a baby on the way, I'd seriously consider it for their lifetime benefits. Where does one begin looking?
replies(1): >>jeppes+0j
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14. idontw+ob[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:35:50
>>nehal3+92
Do you have a suggestion of where to begin looking? Doesn't have to be France either.
replies(1): >>nehal3+Xd
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15. belter+Cb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:36:36
>>nxm+37
"Health Insurance Is Now More Expensive Than the Mortgage for These Americans" - https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/aca-health-insurance-c...
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16. Insani+ed[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:42:27
>>nxm+37
What if you get laid off?
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17. nehal3+Xd[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:45:26
>>idontw+ob
I'm not sure, it depends on what kind of work you're looking for. For the Netherlands, I'd start here.

https://www.tech-careers.nl/job-seeker-visa-for-tech-roles-i...

18. ivolim+Ue[view] [source] 2026-01-26 17:49:03
>>idontw+(OP)
In the Netherlands we return 30% of your taxes in the first 10. So we welcome you as well. We may pay less compared to the USA but we have health care, better work life balance and we all talk English.
replies(2): >>captai+uj >>toephu+pp
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19. tracer+8f[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 17:49:25
>>nxm+37
> As a software engineer in the US you're not really worrying about access to health care

You're "not really worrying" ... whilst you are in a job.

There fixed that for you.

As I am sure you are acutely aware US is the home of lay-offs and is generally easy to fire people.

If you loose your job in the US it becomes panic stations because you loose that precious employer-paid healthcare overnight.

Meanwhile in Europe ? Take your time job hunting a new job, healthcare is still free.

replies(1): >>adev_+vk
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20. jeppes+0j[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:05:26
>>idontw+M9
I don't know about France, but here in Denmark you'd generally find tech jobs on LinkedIn.

If you have a decent amount of experience I don't think you'd be looking for very long.

But as stated by other commenters, the salaries and lower and the taxes higher.

What you get back is great worker protection, child care, free education and generally a feeling of safety for yourself and family. We also have a democracy that offers more than two choices!

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21. captai+uj[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:08:06
>>ivolim+Ue
the first 10 what? Years? It's actually not like that: https://www.government.nl/topics/income-tax/shortening-30-pe...

From 1 January 2024, expats who meet the conditions receive the following tax benefits:

- 30% tax free for the first 20 months;

- 20% tax free for the next 20 months;

- 10% tax free for the last 20 months.

So that's a tapered reduction over the first 5 years and the amount of money that you gain after tax is between negligeable and insultingly small.

Basically in its current form "The Dutch 30% ruling" is not really worth it, if you want to move to The Netherlands do it for other reasons, and the advertisment of this mechanism feels borderline disingenious in its current form.

replies(1): >>mk89+jF
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22. adev_+vk[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:11:52
>>tracer+8f
> Meanwhile in Europe ? Take your time job hunting a new job, healthcare is still free.

Currently, healthcare coverage tend to be better in several European countries when you are jobless... because the system try to compensate the fact you do not have income anymore.

Don't get me wrong, their is many 'flaws' in several European healthcare systems and it is far from perfect. but it tends to be more "human" and less "for profit".

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23. swiftc+cn[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:22:43
>>captai+B
I know several folks who've migrated from US -> EU tech roles in the last few years. Yes, you earn less and pay (somewhat) more taxes. But if you have a few kids the difference in cost of education pretty much wipes out the difference, and some folks really value the stress reduction of a robust social safety net (layoff protections, healthcare coverage while unemployed, etc)
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24. iamEAP+zn[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:24:24
>>nxm+37
I left the US, not because I was worried about healthcare for myself or my family, but because of how I felt it reflected on me that I was fine choosing to stay and cash a large check every month while others around me had to worry about healthcare.
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25. eb0la+Un[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:26:08
>>the_sl+M3
But in the other hand you don't have to worry about mass shootings. You can freely walk (mostly) wherever you want without risking your life (that is not normal in most of the world). And you're not going bankrupt because of a minor/medium medical condition.

Europe is a _very_ different place.

Not everything here is so bad.

replies(1): >>the_sl+cY3
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26. toephu+ho[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:28:17
>>eloisa+06
"free"... as in paid for with high taxes
replies(1): >>jodrel+Ex3
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27. rapnie+Po[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:30:33
>>the_sl+M3
> They've been incentivizing it for years.

There is also NGI Sargasso which had EU grants being awarded to collaborations between parties in the EU and the US, working on internet innovation projects. Looks like that funding program has closed. Not sure if these open calls were slashed by the Trump government.

https://ngisargasso.eu/

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28. toephu+pp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:32:37
>>ivolim+Ue
Isn't the primary tongue of locals in the Netherlands Dutch? Yes you know English, but don't the locals speak Dutch or German to each other?
replies(1): >>ifwint+2d1
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29. swiftc+yp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:33:30
>>dlahod+61
> pay 30% more taxes

This is scaremongering - taxes are in no way 30% higher in EU.

Someone pulling mid-6-figures in the Valley is already paying a ~35% effective tax rate (state + medicare + federal). That same person taking a low-6-figures job in Spain would pay ~40% effective tax rate - and Beckam's Law would likely cut that to 24% for the first 6 years in any case

replies(1): >>dlahod+LT4
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30. znkynz+Ft[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:51:08
>>toomuc+J4
That article is just mindblowing. My countries Health Service is far from perfect, but that is insanity.
replies(1): >>toomuc+Qw
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31. znkynz+3u[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 18:53:26
>>nxm+37
What happens to your health insurance if you get too sick to work?
replies(2): >>lotsof+aE >>msla+i02
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32. toomuc+Qw[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 19:07:02
>>znkynz+Ft
This is a component of what those who can qualify for some sort of visa are fleeing. The economics are undeniable.
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33. lotsof+aE[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 19:43:48
>>znkynz+3u
The bet is that you will earn enough prior to 50 or maybe even 40 so that you won’t have to work, and then you can live off the investments and wherever you want.

High risk, high reward and all that. Although, the previous 20 years of high compensation are obviously no indication of the next 20.

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34. mk89+jF[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 19:49:57
>>captai+uj
I think it was like that some years ago. Now, as you said, it's really useless. 20 months are just the time to find an apartment, furnish it and get used to the place.

Afterwards you have to pay some of the highest taxes in the world....

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35. tick_t+191[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 22:25:34
>>toomuc+P1
I think you're not quite understanding just how bad EU pay is for software. Frankly with the $$ you basically always going to come out ahead with the more comp especially since USA software companies normally offer great healthcare and comparable vacation.
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36. tick_t+x91[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 22:27:53
>>toomuc+J4
I mean the issue here is your arguing on hackernews. The vast majority of people on this site in the USA just don't have these issues. Health care is taken care by the employeer and they are paid more.
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37. ifwint+2d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-26 22:43:17
>>toephu+pp
Dutch people still speak Dutch to each other so if you were going to live there permanently and wanted to properly participate in society you would need to learn Dutch.

However the average level of English ability in NL is extremely good, you won't meet many people who don't have really good English especially for younger generations. Definitely not the case in e.g. France or Italy

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38. msla+i02[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 05:01:49
>>znkynz+3u
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_o...

> The FMLA allows eligible employees to take up to 12 work weeks of unpaid leave during any 12-month period to care for a new child, care for a seriously ill family member, or recover from a serious illness.

There's limitations on that, but the common idea that Americans don't have healthcare is unfounded and appallingly ignorant.

replies(1): >>LunaSe+iU2
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39. janspe+LJ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 11:24:03
>>baal80+y4
Nobody in Europe thinks that healthcare just exists for free, but that it should be available to who need it for free and are happy to pay for that via tax.
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40. LunaSe+iU2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 12:39:30
>>msla+i02
So why is it that medical debt reached more than > $200B ?
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41. durkie+cV2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 12:46:41
>>toomuc+J4
i have questions about this! is there a way to get in touch with you?
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42. jodrel+Ex3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 15:54:10
>>toephu+ho
"In 2024, the United States spent an estimated $14,885 per person on healthcare - the highest healthcare costs per capita across similar countries. For comparison, Switzerland was the second highest-spending country with $9,963 in healthcare costs per capita, while the average for wealthy OECD countries, excluding the United States, was $7,371 per person."

"Despite spending nearly twice as much on healthcare per capita, utilization rates for many services in the United States is lower than other wealthy OECD countries."

"In fact, the United States spends over $1,000 per person on administrative costs — approximately five times more than the average of other wealthy countries"

"Despite higher healthcare spending, America’s health outcomes are not any better than those in other developed countries. The United States actually performs worse in some common health metrics like life expectancy, infant mortality, unmanaged diabetes, and safety during childbirth."

- https://www.pgpf.org/article/how-does-the-us-healthcare-syst...

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43. the_sl+cY3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 17:34:40
>>eb0la+Un
> But in the other hand you don't have to worry about mass shootings.

I don't fear mass shootings any more than I fear terrorist perpetrated subway or event bombings.

> you're not going bankrupt because of a minor/medium medical condition

Medical debt and the discourse around it is interesting. Not having insurance is the fundamental issue, medical debt itself is legally mandated to be negotiable. As in they are legally required to find a negotiable payoff price that will work for your personal financial situation, similar to school debt. I pay $70/month for school debt and will for the next 25 years. Is that a lot? Yes. Does it matter to me? Not so much. I could be wrong about the medical debt, but I don't think i am.

> You can freely walk

This is huge and something that would drastically improve my quality of life in a substantial way. Love Europe for this. Love.

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44. dlahod+LT4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-27 21:14:10
>>swiftc+yp
first, one have to prove he is 24 not 40. taxes can tell 24 and tell you do 40 becauses they decided so.

add social security percentage. while one still need real insurance and pension saving on top. yes, one 6 figure person have to pay two times. once for self and other one unemployed local drunk.

and on top, when one buys anything, all things are taxed 2x compared to usa(but i guess trump tries fo equalize that).

on top. there are prices for locals and foreigners. one will pay 2x for coffee, rent, parking, all.

and yeah, one is foreigner? does not know hidden language of locals? wait in all queues 2x longer. so social security medcine is something one never sees.

replies(1): >>swiftc+bE6
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45. swiftc+bE6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-28 10:35:53
>>dlahod+LT4
> there are prices for locals and foreigners. one will pay 2x for coffee, rent, parking, all... does not know hidden language of locals? wait in all queues 2x longer. so social security medcine is something one never sees.

Mate, I made this exact move ~5 years ago, it's really not that hard to learn a foreign language and navigate a bit of bureaucracy (although I will admit, Spain may be better than most in this regard)

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