zlacker

[parent] [thread] 44 comments
1. thesz+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-01-07 22:18:24
I am not a weightlifter, I am an amateur powerlifter, and I do pretty intense resistance training for my age (54yo) and my weight (112kg) and I eat about 800g to 1kg a day of meat - duck, pork or beef. Even if I eat 1kg Wagyu beef, it would give me about 3000 calories, slightly less than 3500 calories I need to keep my muscle mass. I would happily eat even more meat but circumstances prevents me to do so.

I used to drink protein shakes, but now I am actively against these. Artificial sweeteners provoke insulin release [1] [2] that leads to type-II diabetes.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2887503/

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10568...

replies(3): >>locall+03 >>b00ty4+43 >>hombre+Q41
2. locall+03[view] [source] 2026-01-07 22:32:40
>>thesz+(OP)
You can get protein powder without flavoring. I drink that either pure or with a little bit of flavored protein mixed in (something like 3:1) because the flavored stuff is so sweet I can't drink it. Some brands I could literally do 3 parts flavorless, 1 part flavored and it would still taste too sweet.
replies(1): >>thesz+C7
3. b00ty4+43[view] [source] 2026-01-07 22:32:56
>>thesz+(OP)
you can get protein powder that doesn't contain artificial sweeteners. You can get protein powder that doesn't contain any sweetener. You can even buy pure protein powder without any additives at all.
replies(2): >>thesz+B8 >>_bent+0w
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4. thesz+C7[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 22:54:17
>>locall+03
Why you get protein powder of unknown origin instead of the meat?
replies(3): >>NewJaz+C9 >>little+wb >>locall+TU
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5. thesz+B8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 22:58:32
>>b00ty4+43
Humans are top predators. We eat more meat of various kind than any other predators, including other predators like bears.

Lions can't eat ducks or chickens. We can and do.

Why should I, as a top predator, drink a protein powder instead eating a meat of a big mammal?

replies(9): >>NewJaz+F9 >>Dylan1+K9 >>little+db >>tricer+Gd >>sidrag+kf >>temp08+7i >>b00ty4+8j >>lifis+ww >>otikik+5l1
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6. NewJaz+C9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:05:12
>>thesz+C7
The origin is not unknown.
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7. NewJaz+F9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:05:30
>>thesz+B8
You should acknowledge when you shift the goal posts.
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8. Dylan1+K9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:06:06
>>thesz+B8
I, okay? Next time don't make it sound like the reason you dislike protein shakes is sweeteners!

Why did you drink them before, if you appear to fundamentally object to the idea?

replies(1): >>thesz+fg
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9. little+db[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:14:28
>>thesz+B8
> including other predators like bears

Bears are a terrible example to pick, as they aren't real “predators” in the first place. They are omnivorous, eating more fruits, roots and insects than meat, by far. Depending on their species and where they live they may eat fishes as well, but not that much meat at all.

And of course as omnivorous ourselves, we eat far less meat than actual predators like wolves and felines.

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10. little+wb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:16:31
>>thesz+C7
Whey has the same origin as beef meat you know?
replies(1): >>loeg+tp
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11. tricer+Gd[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:29:50
>>thesz+B8
> Lions can't eat ducks or chickens. We can and do.

As in they can't catch them? Or they can't survive on a diet of them? I'd be surprised if it was the latter.

replies(1): >>thesz+1j
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12. sidrag+kf[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:39:53
>>thesz+B8
agree with the people that say you are moving the goal posts, but to answer this question anyway...

As someone who lifted for a good handful of years, there are a few reasons i used protein powder, it was a very affordable way to add 25-50g of protein and some random fruits or peanut butter or whatever(i'd usually blend up a shake).

It was also a good way as someone who struggles to eat a surplus, to hit my goals as it just went down way easier than an additional full meal.

It is ALSO easier to cut weight and maintain protein goals by utilizing simply water and protein powder.

when it came time for me to cut, im simply swapping milk for water, and removing the peanut butter, and suddenly that "meal" is ~400 calories less.

So the very simple answer? convenience/affordability.

replies(2): >>thesz+yi >>astura+Tr2
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13. thesz+fg[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:43:55
>>Dylan1+K9
I did not know better that's why I drink them.

Now I know better and I don't.

replies(1): >>Dylan1+Eg
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14. Dylan1+Eg[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:46:18
>>thesz+fg
"know better" in what way, that applies to sweetener-free protein?

You must have always known humans were apex predators, and that was the only non-sweetener reason you listed.

replies(2): >>thesz+i31 >>little+Yw1
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15. temp08+7i[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:54:20
>>thesz+B8
> Why should I, as a top predator, ...

I can't imagine anyone actually saying this with a straight face (also I am totally using this line for everything now). What a way to view oneself!

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16. thesz+yi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-07 23:57:14
>>sidrag+kf
I use intermittent fasting, 18+ hours fasting between meals. It is convenient, it is affordable, it gives me ketones to squat 140kg for twenty (20) reps being 54 years old without, literally, breaking a sweat, and, before all, raises blood concentration of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF).

Fat's thermal food effect is 3% of fat's energy, while sugar and amino acids have 8 to 10 times more of their energy converted to heat (25% and 30%). That thermal effect raises the body temperature and makes body to sweat.

Ketogenic diet also allow for fat burn through the year, not at the cut stage only. I once managed to burn fat and bulk at the same time, burning 2 kg of fat and adding 4.5 kg of lean mass in three months, just by switching to intermittent fasting and hypertrophy-specific training. Without PEDs - they interfere with thinking.

replies(1): >>samiv+wB1
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17. thesz+1j[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 00:00:42
>>tricer+Gd
The cannot catch them so they are not adapted to them.

Our cat does not eat lamb as he is not adapted to lamb, but he does eat a lot of duck purring to the skies.

replies(2): >>tricer+Nk >>stouse+4d1
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18. b00ty4+8j[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 00:01:01
>>thesz+B8
Dawg, you buy meat at the grocery store. you aren't an apex predator out here running down water buffaloes and dik-diks on the savannas of Africa with spear in-hand.
replies(1): >>serf+wm
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19. tricer+Nk[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 00:12:01
>>thesz+1j
Do you have a source for lions not being able to subsist on a diet of poultry?
replies(2): >>rascul+NL >>thesz+m71
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20. serf+wm[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 00:24:13
>>b00ty4+8j
our genetics haven't had the time to figure that out, yet.

that's parents' point ( I think ? )

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21. loeg+tp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 00:46:09
>>little+wb
Yeah, they both come from Costco.
replies(1): >>little+7P1
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22. _bent+0w[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 01:30:44
>>b00ty4+43
thanks for the dietary advice, b00ty4breakfast
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23. lifis+ww[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 01:35:01
>>thesz+B8
Actually humans are most similar to chimpanzees and bonobos, which eat meat but very little and mostly eat fruits, nuts and seeds.
replies(1): >>thesz+F31
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24. rascul+NL[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 03:33:51
>>tricer+Nk
Seems like it would take a lot of chickens to maintain a lion, and that would possibly require a large amount of effort for little gain compared to larger game. Lions can definitely catch chickens if there are some around and they care to.
replies(1): >>tricer+RM
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25. tricer+RM[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 03:45:17
>>rascul+NL
I meant in a zoo. Of course it's not realistic for a lion in the wild to live exclusively off poultry.

The person I responded to seemed to seems to believe lions eating only poultry would develop nutritional deficiencies of some kind. Maybe that's true but I'm interested to learn if there are sources. Not just gut feel "they don't eat them in the wild so they can't do it".

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26. locall+TU[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 05:14:03
>>thesz+C7
It's convenient. I have no idea where the meat came from either.
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27. thesz+i31[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 06:40:38
>>Dylan1+Eg
I learned that humans are apex predators a couple of years ago.

Meat contains essential fats to various degrees while protein powder does not at all. Usually, protein powder ([1] as an example) is not exactly matched to the human profile of amino acids [2], that means extraneous amino acids will be converted to glucose and stored as fat.

[1] https://explosivewhey.com/blogs/fitness-nutrition/what-is-wh...

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11291443/

Notice that ratio between leucine and methionine is 3/1 in consumption profile and is much higher in the whey protein profile. This leucine most probably will be wasted.

replies(3): >>Dylan1+5a1 >>little+Dx1 >>Delk+5k2
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28. thesz+F31[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 06:45:22
>>lifis+ww
Chimpanzees have greater gut to support their longer intestines, which they need to digest fibrous food.
29. hombre+Q41[view] [source] 2026-01-08 06:58:33
>>thesz+(OP)
Your best evidence is a rat study and a narrative review?

Kinda makes zero cal sweeteners look good.

replies(1): >>thesz+qb1
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30. thesz+m71[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 07:20:34
>>tricer+Nk
Lions can subsist on a diet of poultry, but suboptimally.

If we assume that lions' best diet is beef [1], then chicken [2] would be less optimal for them.

[1] https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/171797/100g/...

[2] https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/171140/wt9/1

Look at the amino acid ratios. Leucine to valine ratio is about 0.66 for chicken and 0.8 for beef. This means that protein synthesis will be bound by valine in case of chicken and what is not used in the protein synthesis will be converted to glucose and then stored as fat. Chicken will be about 80% (0.66/0.8) as nutritious as beef, judging just by two essential amino acids ratio.

replies(2): >>Dylan1+Co1 >>tricer+8V1
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31. Dylan1+5a1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 07:42:04
>>thesz+i31
You need to burn thousands of calories every day. Most of the protein you eat should get burned.
replies(1): >>thesz+1d1
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32. thesz+qb1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 07:54:27
>>hombre+Q41
It is hard to experiment on humans. Here is an experiment on monkeys: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39978336/

At least aspartame increases insulin secretion in them.

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33. thesz+1d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 08:10:01
>>Dylan1+5a1
By storing 10g of fat (90 calories, 3.5%-5% of daily calories) per day you accumulate 3.5 kg of fat after an year. By eating protein that cannot be utilized by your body fully (wrong amino acid profile) you are storing extra fat and build less muscle.

Whey protein most probably would bound muscle protein synthesis by methionine available, and make substantial (I think 40%) amount of calories from leucine in it to be converted to glucose. Two 33g servings of whey protein can be converted to 1g of fat, just from leucine alone.

replies(1): >>Dylan1+Qn1
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34. stouse+4d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 08:10:24
>>thesz+1j
When was the last time you caught a duck?
replies(1): >>klondi+aO4
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35. otikik+5l1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 09:29:33
>>thesz+B8
One has to be very careful when drawing parallelisms from the animal kingdom.

Lions challenge the dominant male, and if they win, they kill all of their offspring and take all of their females.

Hopefully you are not doing that with every male you encounter that happens to be physically weaker than you.

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36. Dylan1+Qn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 09:54:54
>>thesz+1d1
Whether you store fat is based on whether you eat an excess of calories. Some protein being only usable as fuel is fine, because you need fuel. If that fat isn't being immediately burned, then eat slightly less.
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37. Dylan1+Co1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 10:01:10
>>thesz+m71
What is not used in protein synthesis will be converted to glucose and then used to power their cells.

You're badly misusing that amino acid data.

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38. little+Yw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 11:23:59
>>Dylan1+Eg
Humans aren't even, in fact, apex predators. We are the preys of big felines (tigers in Asia, Jaguar in South America, Lions in Africa and Asia) which are the true apex predators in their respective ecosystems.
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39. little+Dx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 11:28:23
>>thesz+i31
> I learned that humans are apex predators a couple of years ago.

I'm afraid you're going to unlearn it, as humans are below big felines in the food chain.

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40. samiv+wB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 12:02:26
>>thesz+yi
Hello, very similar story here. Been weight training for 30 years and focusing on natural body building for the past 5 years.

I struggled a lot with my nutrition and eating "regular food" always mad me fat. I tried various keto and low carb variants but never made it work and always hit a wall after 2-3 weeks. UNTIL I discovered intermittent fasting. After having done the intermittent fasting for about 5 years I started another low carb/keto journey but this time I went all in on fat and protein. No holding back. And I also cut excessive vegetables (especially the raw stuff). So now I'm eating all the eggs, meat, butter, bacon as much as I want. About a year in. The results so far.. dropped 4kg body fat and put on 2kg of muscle.

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41. little+7P1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 13:50:50
>>loeg+tp
And from cow, ultimately.
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42. tricer+8V1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 14:23:46
>>thesz+m71
> If we assume that lions' best diet is beef

I was asking for a source for this assumption. Lions in the wild eat gazelles, giraffes, zebras, and buffalo, not cattle. I guess there isn't a great source so I'll leave it.

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43. Delk+5k2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 16:22:01
>>thesz+i31
If humans are considered apex(-ish) predators, it's because there's mostly nothing "above" us in the food chain. We aren't typical prey for any other animal, so we are at the top-ish.

It doesn't mean the diets of humans are biologically supposed to consist of huge amounts of meat.

Most apex predators are of course obligate carnivores. But humans are probably near the top because the use of weapons and tools makes us highly dangerous, so most land animals are wary of humans. Even many predators don't prey on humans for food.

(Although some large land predators do, mostly when they're desperate for food.)

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44. astura+Tr2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-08 16:56:46
>>sidrag+kf
>It was also a good way as someone who struggles to eat a surplus, to hit my goals as it just went down way easier than an additional full meal.

Which is hilarious since current bro-science is that protein is the most filling macronutrient.

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45. klondi+aO4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-09 10:47:43
>>stouse+4d1
My dad told me of one Christmas he spent in Sheffield in the early 60s. He'd been ill or something and missed his train back home so he was moping about miserably. Then his Polish flatmate came home, took him to a park and taught him how to catch a duck (he mimed the actions used, with some string as a snare) which they roasted for Christmas dinner. There's something grim, damp, probably illegal, but also convivial and ingenious about the story that makes me think of Withnail and Marwood in Regent's Park.
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