zlacker

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1. miki12+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-10-01 22:16:55
You're always building a castle in someone else's kingdom.

If you're publishing on your own website instead of a social media platform, your new Kings are your domain registrar, registry operator and ultimately ICAN itself, your hosting provider, Let's Encrypt, all the email providers you need to be able to deliver to (notably Microsoft and Google), and probably also your payments provider.

Despite what people say, the internet is not decentralized, and it's no longer possible to build a site that isn't in anybody else's kingdom.

This is mostly a good thing, if this wasn't true, somebody would have set up a site that was a safe haven for child porn, and there'd be nothing that anybody could ever do about it.

replies(12): >>lolind+v3 >>Sigmun+y4 >>throwa+29 >>bitnas+fa >>6510+Nc >>roenxi+kk >>dartos+pU >>croes+D41 >>Gud+q51 >>rchaud+tw1 >>veunes+2A1 >>rendaw+JY2
2. lolind+v3[view] [source] 2024-10-01 22:41:09
>>miki12+(OP)
When you get to this level of granularity the metaphor really starts to fall apart, but the principle is still there: identify your points of failure, the risk of them failing, and ensure there's a plan B.

Most businesses can treat their domain name as fail-safe. If you have a .com/.org/.net, pay well in advance, and aren't doing anything that's currently illegal in the US, you're not going to lose it unless there's a dramatic political shift that's earthshattering for ~everyone.

On the other hand, social media platforms arbitrarily locking you out is a daily occurrence for tens of thousands of innocent people per day. This isn't just a hypothetical risk, it actually does happen to people and businesses all the time. Even the most law-abiding business should not build their castle in a social media platform.

replies(2): >>Veuxdo+s6 >>throwa+fR
3. Sigmun+y4[view] [source] 2024-10-01 22:48:49
>>miki12+(OP)
At this point you only have your own kingdom if you have a standing army with nuclear weapons, you are sovereign, everyone else rents, this is just physics, the details are social contracts.
replies(2): >>tshadd+t5 >>EarlKi+Tn
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4. tshadd+t5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 22:54:25
>>Sigmun+y4
Having your own nuclear weapons is probably like having firearms in your home in that you’re actually more likely to be the victim of that class of weapons.
replies(2): >>Sigmun+p6 >>accoun+ggd
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5. Sigmun+p6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:01:39
>>tshadd+t5
The alternative is you don't have them and you rent protection from someone who does.
replies(1): >>tshadd+Xe
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6. Veuxdo+s6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:02:11
>>lolind+v3
> On the other hand, social media platforms arbitrarily locking you out is a daily occurrence for tens of thousands of innocent people per day.

If you're at all legit, you don't have to worry about being locked out.

Everyone has to worry about being downranked to oblivion, which is the new normal on most SM sites.

replies(5): >>BadHum+H7 >>dandel+ab >>lolind+Bb >>strken+Zj >>naviga+lF
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7. BadHum+H7[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:10:08
>>Veuxdo+s6
> If you're at all legit, you don't have to worry about being locked out.

Complete ignorance of the people who arbitrarily get flagged by algorithms to no fault of their own or get on the bad side of someone at these companies who have a grudge.

replies(1): >>zdragn+k8
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8. zdragn+k8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:15:12
>>BadHum+H7
You mean like the Texas home schooling Facebook group that keeps getting dinged because Facebook keeps asserting that the word "Texan" implies they are selling drugs?
9. throwa+29[view] [source] 2024-10-01 23:20:21
>>miki12+(OP)
This logic extend to governments as well. It's a spectrum which in many ways the mega platforms are directly comparable in their economic impacts to governments. This requires a more nuanced analysis than a reductive "it's a private company".
10. bitnas+fa[view] [source] 2024-10-01 23:28:15
>>miki12+(OP)
This is addressed in the article…
replies(1): >>xeyown+2I
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11. dandel+ab[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:34:35
>>Veuxdo+s6
> If you're at all legit, you don't have to worry about being locked out.

That's not correct, just on HN you can frequently see articles about people getting locked out of Google, Paypal, Facebook, etc. with no explanation given. I've been banned for suspicious activity on a social media site on an account I hadn't used in years, probably because someone was trying to steal the username.

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12. lolind+Bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-01 23:36:57
>>Veuxdo+s6
My wife got randomly banned from Facebook Marketplace for a year. Appeal after appeal was ignored, then randomly they restored access more than a year later.

A year is enough time to kill a business.

13. 6510+Nc[view] [source] 2024-10-01 23:42:55
>>miki12+(OP)
You can make a html website in a torrent. Works surprisingly well.

One time I had a copy of someones website that got deleted and experimented a bit.

The index was paginated linked page titles 50 per page. I combined the paginated pages so that each had 2000 entries (I think it was, maybe 5000) Then I wrote a bit of js that takes a search query from the url?q= looks if it exists on the page, if nothing is found load the next html document and append the query to the url. To my surprise it paged though the pages remarkably fast.

If you want to you could, in stead of display the content, display a search box on each page with the query in it, have a row of dots for the page number (on page 4 display 4 dots)

Displaying 50 or 500 blank pages one after the other goes pretty damn fast if you load them from the file system. They can also be pretty damn big. If you put the content in comments the rendering engine wont touch it at all.

When you update the website you can make a new torrent that has the same folder name and the same files inside. Run a check and the client will discover you had nearly everything already. The only restriction is that it may not change existing html documents.

For that you can just attempt to load non existing scripts in the folder. Have script1.js attempt to load script2.js and 2 look for 3 etc

Can publish updates on a telegram channel.

replies(1): >>Y_Y+tV
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14. tshadd+Xe[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 00:00:12
>>Sigmun+p6
Right, I’m hinting that it’s probably not worth maintaining your own nuclear weapon system in order to host your own website and email newsletter.
replies(1): >>Sigmun+2k
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15. strken+Zj[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 00:48:10
>>Veuxdo+s6
I was once involved in my friend's SaaS startup and he got locked out of Facebook ads for having an inactive account and then spending too much money in the first day. "Too much" in this case was a few hundred dollars. Turns out you're meant to slowly increase your spend over a week while doomscrolling shitty clickbait, otherwise Facebook thinks your account has been compromised.
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16. Sigmun+2k[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 00:48:50
>>tshadd+Xe
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe"
17. roenxi+kk[view] [source] 2024-10-02 00:51:33
>>miki12+(OP)
> This is mostly a good thing, if this wasn't true, somebody would have set up a site that was a safe haven for child porn, and there'd be nothing that anybody could ever do about it.

I doubt it is true, and I'd assume people have set up a site. If the media industry failed to exterminate torrenting with enormous economic incentives to do so why would the crusade against child abuse achieve more success? It isn't technically possible to stop people communicating with each other over the internet.

replies(1): >>throwa+JZ
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18. EarlKi+Tn[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 01:30:09
>>Sigmun+y4
A certain medieval gentlemen from Alamut would beg to differ. One does not need a standing army and nuclear weapons so much as the ability to inflict your politics on others credibly and unavoidably. There are many ways to do that, not all of which necessarily involve violence.

Put another way: There are many minority populations throughout history and up to this very day that have managed to carve out a niche in their host population without necessarily employing mass violence to do it.

replies(1): >>throwa+uR
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19. naviga+lF[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 05:19:16
>>Veuxdo+s6
> If you're at all legit, you don't have to worry about being locked out.

This is simply false. We were locked out of Meta Ads Manager for no apparent reason. When we contacted Meta customer support—setting aside the casual racism I faced for not being a native speaker—all they could offer was, "Oops, that shouldn't have happened; we'll refresh your account." As a result, we lost approximately $5k in business because we couldn't reach our audience at its peak.

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20. xeyown+2I[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 05:53:39
>>bitnas+fa
Yes, but you had to scroll to see it. Way too hard these days.
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21. throwa+fR[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 07:39:21
>>lolind+v3
This is not a safe assumption. You're just one crazy person willing to harass the family of whoever runs the registrar away from being 'too difficult to work with' and getting your account nuked. They don't charge enough to stick their neck out for you.
replies(3): >>pyrale+BZ >>graeme+NA1 >>accoun+Oed
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22. throwa+uR[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 07:41:42
>>EarlKi+Tn
All politics is violence by other means.
replies(2): >>HPsqua+b31 >>EarlKi+R42
23. dartos+pU[view] [source] 2024-10-02 08:16:10
>>miki12+(OP)
> Despite what people say, the internet is not decentralized.

Do people say this? I’ve never heard anyone outside of web3 land say this.

IIRC it’s one of the big disappointments of the internet that is evolved in such a centralized way.

But also you can deploy a website which doesn’t rely on ICANN or a hosting provider, lets encrypt, email, or any of that.

Your only “king” would be an ISP (which you could also run yourself, if you were so inclined)

It wouldn’t be an easily accessible castle, but it’d be yours.

replies(1): >>immibi+5l1
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24. Y_Y+tV[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 08:29:24
>>6510+Nc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help
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25. pyrale+BZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 09:18:02
>>throwa+fR
We're also one button press away from thermonuclear apocalypse.

Knowing what's more likely and what's less likely is still useful information: social media turning bad is a daily occurence, while dns registrars' family members have been safe for a pretty long time now.

replies(2): >>throwa+a11 >>ctxc+cp2
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26. throwa+JZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 09:19:31
>>roenxi+kk
It's already happened. The Trump shooters brother was arrested for CSAM only because it was discovered during the investigation of his brother.
replies(1): >>Thunde+u41
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27. throwa+a11[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 09:37:04
>>pyrale+BZ
Nuclear security had many buttons and many people.

Harassing people is far more accessible and has a proven track record of success.

replies(1): >>pyrale+Q21
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28. pyrale+Q21[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 09:54:39
>>throwa+a11
> has a proven track record of success.

Do you have examples of someone successfully harassing a registrar employee into breaking the registrar's ICANN accreditation terms?

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29. HPsqua+b31[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:00:57
>>throwa+uR
It does make Clausewitz's saying about war being "politics by other means" back in context when you put it that way.

But really politics is just about "one person causes another to act". This can be through persuasion. It doesn't have to be force (or fraud for that matter).

replies(1): >>throwa+451
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30. Thunde+u41[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:14:47
>>throwa+JZ
Well, for all the "safety" of the kingdoms there, it didn't stop it.

So the kingdoms have not prevented it, and many probably have facilitated it, and maybe not always unintentional (as in, someone from inside the company was "in on it").

replies(1): >>throwa+G41
31. croes+D41[view] [source] 2024-10-02 10:16:23
>>miki12+(OP)
>But wait! Your mailing list is hosted by Mailchimp which is another company, and your website is hosted by GoDaddy or Squarespace? Aren’t they evil kingdoms too?

>Not really. They are just hosting platforms that are invisible to your followers.

>The general public doesn’t have to go to Mailchimp.com to read your newsletter or squarespace to view your blog. Your readers go to your domain.

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32. throwa+G41[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:17:03
>>Thunde+u41
The FBI also temporarily ran a CSAM site which raises ethical and legal questions.
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33. throwa+451[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:20:04
>>HPsqua+b31
Persuasion is merely the implication of force. All actions can be explained through the language of force from the tenuous to the direct.
replies(2): >>HPsqua+A51 >>EarlKi+352
34. Gud+q51[view] [source] 2024-10-02 10:24:22
>>miki12+(OP)
Just because you are using someone else’s services doesn’t mean you’re in their kingdom.

Self hosting (which I think you should be) is more like being Luxembourg. Sure, you still have to appease the neighbours, and occasionally you might be invaded, but overall you still get to see your own taxes and keep the culture somewhat independent.

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35. HPsqua+A51[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:25:40
>>throwa+451
Consider the persuasion of making a sale. That's not force. People can sell political ideas in the same way, they can spread virally.

EDIT: Also I consider economics, politics and marketing as basically "mass psychology". Hence all the problems with replication in those fields.

EDIT 2: And with these things being psychology, there's a big "default biological drives" component. A lot of the motivations for political etc actions are internal to each person.

replies(1): >>throwa+a71
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36. throwa+a71[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 10:44:03
>>HPsqua+A51
The replication issues in those fields are partly attributable to the fields inability to explain behavior in terms of the biological imperative.

There is the theoretical rational actor which while very misunderstood is also subject to the stochastic and entropic reality. The 'internal motivation'

Persuasion can be divided into carrot and stick. The stick the implication of force against the individual and the carrot the promise of the ability to use force against other actors. This can be further expanded to negative force inherent from a relatively worse off position for not taking the carrot.

With some creativity all behavior can be formulated from a few simple primitives.

replies(1): >>HPsqua+3P2
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37. immibi+5l1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 12:46:19
>>dartos+pU
You still need an IP address. You can build your own network on top of point-to-point layer-2 connections, which have no central authority, but it won't be reachable from the Internet.

BTW: anyone interested in this should join DN42, which is an alternative central authority, and does more-or-less this. Although 99.9% of DN42 links are internet VPNs because that's cheaper, physical links are also accepted because they're cooler.

(This reply was delayed by an hour by HN's rate limit)

replies(1): >>dartos+fJ1
38. rchaud+tw1[view] [source] 2024-10-02 13:54:52
>>miki12+(OP)
> your new Kings are your domain registrar, registry operator and ultimately ICAN itself

To whom have these bodies caused problems, to anywhere near the same extent as mass market social media networks?

replies(2): >>append+OB1 >>piyuv+3C1
39. veunes+2A1[view] [source] 2024-10-02 14:18:25
>>miki12+(OP)
Full independence is nearly impossible
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40. graeme+NA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 14:23:03
>>throwa+fR
Yes, and a cray person could blowup your house or your business premises,
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41. append+OB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 14:31:08
>>rchaud+tw1
Nobody said that this happened? The commenter is pointing out the faulty absolutist suggestion of the clickbait title.
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42. piyuv+3C1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 14:32:29
>>rchaud+tw1
OP is close to defending sovereign citizens.

Well-regulated, established organizations are not threats to liberty; on the contrary, they’re required for a well functioning community (of netizens)

Some kings thought that they were bound to gods so in the name of total freedom they announced themselves as “god-kings”

replies(2): >>int_19+Y52 >>Andrex+7X4
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43. dartos+fJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 15:16:15
>>immibi+5l1
I’m not an expert (or all that knowledge, honestly) in ISP level stuff. I just know it can be done.

If you ran your own ISP and purchased wholesale bandwidth, would that not just include an ipv6, at least?

replies(1): >>immibi+yQ1
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44. immibi+yQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 15:56:45
>>dartos+fJ1
You can get an IPv6 range from your ISP, or directly from the central authority in your region. (IPv4s are too scarce to get a range, so you'll only want to have one and that will have to be part of your ISP's range because you can't advertise just one.)

Purchasing wholesale internet bandwidth is another way of saying purchasing internet service (a lot of it). The company that sells you that is your ISP.

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45. EarlKi+R42[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 17:14:25
>>throwa+uR
If you think that all politics is violence then you're always going to be woefully ineffective at it. Never bring a shotgun to a negotiation when a well-placed fact (or fiction) will do.
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46. EarlKi+352[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 17:15:44
>>throwa+451
Persuasion is the art of supplying facts to enable mutual self-interest. Not everyone has an implacable class interest.
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47. int_19+Y52[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 17:21:34
>>piyuv+3C1
It's not an either-or. Organizations are required for a well-functioning community, but they're also threats to liberty insofar as they represent easily capturable concentrations of power.
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48. ctxc+cp2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 19:15:50
>>pyrale+BZ
Agreed. I don't know why the other thing is even an argument.
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49. HPsqua+3P2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-02 22:59:11
>>throwa+a71
Interpersonal actions can be "win-win", "win-lose" (of which zero-sum is a subset) and "lose-lose". No force is needed to enter into a win-win arrangement.
replies(1): >>throwa+kL3
50. rendaw+JY2[view] [source] 2024-10-03 00:50:24
>>miki12+(OP)
> a site that was a safe haven for child porn, and there'd be nothing that anybody could ever do about it

They could arrest the person and take down their servers, same as now.

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51. throwa+kL3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-03 10:41:15
>>HPsqua+3P2
My goal in this exercise is to be able to decompose all behavior into a few simple rules.
replies(1): >>HPsqua+OM3
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52. HPsqua+OM3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-03 10:58:06
>>throwa+kL3
You may find this article interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

replies(1): >>throwa+iy6
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53. Andrex+7X4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-03 19:10:48
>>piyuv+3C1
I'm 33 and this is an argument I haven't considered, or have heard worded in such a way. Thank you for giving me a lot of food for thought the next few days.
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54. throwa+iy6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-04 10:44:46
>>HPsqua+OM3
I don't find that particularly relevant to my line of thinking. My goal is to build layers of abstraction up from automata to where all behavior can have a rational basis or aberration thereof from a stochastic and entropic process.
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55. accoun+Oed[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-07 13:22:10
>>throwa+fR
The registrar does not own the domain, they just registrar it for you. If push comes to shove they need to let you transfer the domain to another registrar of you choosing after which your users will be able to reach you the same way as always.

Not so much with social media where the respective tyrant has a TOS that makes it clear they can tell you to pound sand whenever they feel like it.

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56. accoun+ggd[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-07 13:31:44
>>tshadd+t5
Your claim about nuclear weaposn increasing the risk of being subjected to nuclear attacks has no historical basis. If anything, there is evidence for the opposite.

Even for private firearm ownership you'd need to show more than just correlation to make that claim.

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