zlacker

I have a trivial example: saying grace. As a lapsed catholic I found all manner of religious traditions extremely tedious as a child and especially as a teenager. I expunged all of them as soon as I turned 18. But recently we have been expressing gratitude before meals. This helps me slow down as I've always been a rapid eater and suffered indigestion; I also enjoy the food more as a result. The grace prayer is gratitude to God in whom I no longer believe. But I think acknowledging the enormous role played by pure chance in our lives is very important.

>>ccppur+(OP)
I am the opposite of you, a lapsed atheist I suppose. And I noticed that among the religious there is an openness to professing gratitude about everything. Amongst my secular friends, there is rarely a time anyone professes thankfulness (outside receiving something new).

It's not as if the latter are ingrates, but the social ritual of showing gratitude is not there among them, and maybe in some small way, that does breed less thankfulness in the long run...

>>aprilt+71
What is for you the purpose (or result) of (undirected) thankfulness?

I find religious people passionate about following the rituals of their religion (for many more than the intention), in a similar way as atheists are passionate about other rituals (their sport, their eating routines, etc.).

For me the absence of thankfulness equals more with awareness. Should I be thankful I have a house? I prefer to be annoyed other people don't have, or that I can't do better (ex: have a house that generates less carbon, etc.).

>>ccppur+(OP)
The older I get the more I wonder about how strange it is to be anything at all. How crazy it is to take it for granted.

I was dead for what we assume to be billions of years since this universe popped up, and soon I will be for what we understand to be far, far longer. These moment are precious, and those meals and the people we share them with are too. It makes so much sense to express gratitude for them.

That little moment to remind yourself that it’s all borrowed from the universe and will need to be given back is, I think, essential to actually living. Without that appreciation, does any of it really matter at all? Without it you’re only seeking the next thing to desire. Eventually there won’t be a next thing to desire, and you’ll have never had a chance to savour any of it.

>>vladms+y3
I found this to be a good answer: >>41667503

>>ccppur+(OP)
That’s an interesting perspective, and it makes sense it works. Thankfulness is known to provide a lot of psychological benefits, such as greater appreciation of the thing you are thankful for.

Where it goes wrong though is if we take it too far and start connecting this to some non-existent deity, which in turn makes us construct an incorrect model of the world (such as if we’re not thankful for the food, then next year there will be a drought as a punishment).

I suppose codifying beneficial practices into religion or spiritual beliefs is just part of being human.

>>ccppur+(OP)
Why not use a more suitable speech?

Also, I think it depends on how you come to these rituals. If it's just something you grew up with there's a good chance it's just some words you stumble through before a meal.

>>ccppur+(OP)
Try saying an Our Father before going to bed. As a therapeutic.

It has the advantage that it is compatible with most (all?) preligions, certainly the Abrahamic ones.

Try it as a therapeutic. To release all the angst and problems before going to bed.

(If you recall your catechesis, that's laying your your problems at the feet of the cross)

>>rnd33+yb
I think you're attempting to indict Christianity via a faulty understanding of its most basic precepts.

> (such as if we’re not thankful for the food, then next year there will be a drought as a punishment).

It's funny that you mention this, because two thousand years ago, a new religious movement came up that believed exactly that (Christianity).

>>vladms+y3
There's a major problem with having too little of a sense of agency. From that we see cycles of poverty and violence from people who seem unable to help themselves. I think this problem is widely recognized.

There's however also a problem with too much agency. It breeds anxiety, discontent, unhappiness. Not everything in your life is under your control, and expressing undirected gratitude is one way of acknowledging that.

>>vladms+y3
The purpose? To remember that what we have was given to us. To be grateful we were given the gift of life. To be grateful that it was given with intention and not randomly.

The result? I definitely find it's helpful navigating the ups and downs in life. Like any other skill, if you practice gratitude you can be grateful even when you've had a significant loss, and it really helps you pull through that. Vice versa you can remain humble through significant improvements in life.

>>ccppur+(OP)
I'm not particularly religious, but I was raised catholic and I try to go to church with the kids every sunday. I view the ceremonies (especially church) as a meditative process. You train your psyche to associate the ceremony with entering into a particular mind state. Its not so much the specific words you are saying as much as it is the process.

>>vladms+y3
I think acknowledging the huge role played by chance in your home ownership (and elsewhere in your life) is very important to stay humble, and to have more correct beliefs and fewer incorrect ones. I call it gratitude.

>>ccppur+V52
Not a native English speaker, but when I hear "thankfulness" I kind of hear "to someone/something" (not that much for "gratitude"). Now "humble" I resonate much more with, but I don't see it connected to "thankfulness". People can be "thankful" to someone and feel very entitled at the same time.

Humans have been fighting against "chance" for the whole evolution (chance of starving if you don't catch something, chance of suffering if you take a bug, etc.). I fully agree, you should not feel responsible for it, but you should not like it (or thank it) either.