Where is the pro-digital-control constituency hiding out? Surely the manufacturers wouldn’t be going so hard this way if market research bore out quite that degree of resistance.
I still prefer physical controls over digital ones, which seemed to be conflated in your comment. I think this preference bears out in the market as well, since we're seeing some car manufacturers bring back physical controls for certain tasks.
On the other hand, there's also the blatantly counter-consumer choices that also suggest that simply ignoring what people want isn't out of the question. See GM's removal of mobile integration, Mazda's rejection of touchscreens, etc.
> Where is the pro-digital-control constituency hiding out?
Like so many debates online, this one gets polarizing and hyperbolic really fast. Communities around specific car models are more likely to have fans of the UI, and they're unlikely to venture out into other forums discussing the stuff because of how adamant people are that they're wrong.
This is especially handy if I'm navigating new places, where I can get the map right there in front of me. No need to look to the side, so can keep my eyes on the road more.
That said I think Renault has struck a nice balance between digital and physical. AC controls are physical, as is volume/mute and a few more.
All the physical buttons are still available via voice commands, which I also like. If a lot is happening on the road it's sometimes better to be able to keep both eyes on the road and hands on the wheel.
And as much as I dislike touch, at least it works well and the hardware driving the screens is snappy and responsive, like a good tablet.
The reason nobody talks about it on forums like this is the same reason moderate people almost never post online. The internet is full of aggressive people who think it's OK to be a bully if they are morally justified. And this is one of those topics where people feel like they have to "defend" their preferences aggressively.
I've posted about this in another HN thread and got some good discussion going. If anywhere is going to have reasonable discussion, this is likely the place.
On to my opinion: I have a 2022 Model Y Performance and a 2023 Model 3 RWD (base model). I am a personal fan of minimalism and I can absolutely see their "intent" with the minimalist approach, but I do think it needs more work in several areas.
Elon once said, "All user input is error." I can see what he means by this. In an ideal world you don't have to change much in a car as it knows your intent.
Where this works well, it works REALLY well. Stuff like climate control, maps/charging, seat adjustments, and more are just "handled" in modern cars and by putting 10+ buttons that are rarely touched out there, you're cluttering up the physical space and increasing manufacturing complexity.
Where this works poorly, it can REALLY hurt. For example, their automatic windshield wipers that use Vision only. They fluctuate between being acceptable to unusable every other update. They are clearly trying to make it better, but a cheap rain sensor would have likely saved them millions in software engineering at this point. And because the windshield wipers are built to be automatic... the manual controls SUCK on a touchscreen.
Personally, when I get into a non-Tesla now, I feel extremely cramped and the cars feel extremely messy to me. The Model Y has a good amount of interior space, but it feels EXTRA big because there's so little visual noise. And realistically, I probably interact with my touchscreen once per drive on average.
I think people tend to think of worst-case scenarios with minimalist screen-centric approaches and pretend like they are frequent occurrences. For some people they will be. If I lived in Costa Rica in the mountains where it rains 95% of the year, I would be really annoyed to have these crappy auto-wipers. But, a simple rain sensor could have made this so much better.
Though today's interfaces are not perfectly optimized or at their end-state yet, I think Tesla is a good example of where we're heading and I love it. Hopefully within 5-10 years I can get into a car, state where I want to go, and everything else is magically handled for me. That is the ideal end state and I think these minimalist interfaces are a step in that direction.
Whether or not this is the future some people WANT is a completely understandable discussion though.
For the past few years, we've started to see major UX changes (buttons & mechanical gauges going away) and huge amounts of new infotainment that are now possible because we've stopped hiding the digital nature of everything.
Lots of us hate that, but it does no good to focus the hate on the wrong thing ;)
Yes, at least in theory: I can remove gauges I don't care for, and have the ones I do care for instead.
However in my experience (mostly renting low-end cars so it might be a lot better on the higher end)
- the customisability is very limited, and usually does not have what I'm interested in
- digital screens are used as an excuse for completely worthless animations
- some of the digital readouts ridiculously low granularity / functionality, I've seen digital fuel jauges taking the entire height of the dashboard yet only having 8 segments, that's worse than even the most basic of fuel jauges from the 80s
Anyway like digital displays, I just wish they were more functional, and less shit.
Digital (dematerialised) controls however, are a whole other kettle of fish.
But, they are. In intermittent rain one wants to be able to adjust the wiper speed, not press a button on the left stalk then have to touch a tiny button on the touch screen. Likewise, if the windshield is fogging up, the last thing one wants to do is to have to look away from the road and navigate the climate controls on the touch screen.
The example of my car with a lot of buttons:
https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/hyundai/santa-fe/2017/oem...
What benefit do I get from PHONE being a physical button? Or INFO, or SETUP, or BLUELINK? I shouldn't be using those buttons while the vehicle is in motion. I shouldn't even really be using MAP or NAVI or MEDIA while the vehicle is in motion either, I should be adjusting such things while the car is stopped. And the SEEK/TRACK buttons and volume knob are actually redundant, those controls are also on the wheel so I shouldn't be using those while driving either. And what, I'm going to navigate folders of media while I'm driving with the FILE/ENTER knob?
If the car is stopped, why should I care if its physical or not? I'd prefer the larger screen to actually see more of my media or the navigation or what not when stopped. All these buttons just get in the way when stopped, they're not helpful in the slightest.
And then when I'm actually moving I'd prefer the larger screen as then the navigation and map is much larger so its way easier to understand what its telling me with a fast glance if I'm unsure about the next turn.
About the only buttons I actually need to use here when the vehicle is in motion is the defroster. Everything else here is stuff I probably shouldn't bother touching while in motion. The climate control is auto, so I only end up touching it a few times a year.
I do understand the other poster here talking about a convertible though. Driving when its cold out with the top down I'd probably prefer more physical buttons, but this isn't a convertible.
In the end, all the controls I should actually be using while driving should be on or directly around the steering wheel. I shouldn't have to touch anything in the center console while the vehicle is moving. Ideally, I shouldn't have to take my hands off the wheel at all while the car is in motion.
As for digital gauges vs having needles, I'd probably always take a decent digital gauge. The needles were already digital for decades so any talk about reliability or vendor lock or maintainability is moot. They take up more space than just showing a number. Combined with the fact the digital gauge also shows other useful information like the next turn information for navigation, LKA information, auto-cruise information, etc its way more useful than just a big circle vaguely showing my speed and a big circle showing me RPMs which isn't really necessary 99% of the time in an automatic. There's a slight argument to be made about brightness with night vision but they're usually able to dim pretty dark when you're truly out there. I haven't had a problem seeing while driving around at night even far out in the country with no streetlights.
But auto-wipers work GREAT in cars with rain sensors.
So this isn't a critique of screen-only interfaces, it's more of a critique of Tesla's vision-only approach.
