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1. janeje+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-18 03:16:36
The wording is very clearly hostile and aggressive, especially for a formal statement, and the wording, again, makes it very clear that they are burning all bridges with Sam Altman, and it is very clear that 1. it was done extremely suddenly, 2. with very little notice or discussion with any other stakeholder (e.g. Microsoft being completely blindsided, not even waiting 30 minutes for the stock market to close, doing this shortly before Thanksgiving break, etc).

You don't really see any of this in most professional settings.

replies(3): >>fsckbo+U1 >>clnq+e4 >>DonHop+No
2. fsckbo+U1[view] [source] 2023-11-18 03:29:19
>>janeje+(OP)
boards give reasons for transparency, and they said he had not been fully candid.

You are interpreting that as hostile and aggressive because you are reading into it what other boards have said in other disputes and whatever you are imagining, but if the board learned some things not from Altman that it felt they should have learned from Altman, less than candid is a completely neutral way to describe it, and voting him out is not an indication of hostility.

Would you like to propose some other candid wording the board could have chosen, a wording that does not lack candor?

replies(1): >>janeje+D2
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3. janeje+D2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 03:34:24
>>fsckbo+U1
> You are interpreting that as hostile and aggressive because you are reading into it

Uhh no, I'm seeing it as hostile and aggressive because the actual verbiage was hostile and aggressive, doubly so in the context of this being a formal corporate statement. You can pass the text into NLP sentiment analyzer and it too will come to the same conclusion.

It is also very telling that you are being very sarcastic and demeaning in your remarks as well to someone who wasn't even replying to you, which might explain why you might have seen the PR statement differently.

replies(1): >>racket+Yr
4. clnq+e4[view] [source] 2023-11-18 03:47:52
>>janeje+(OP)
It is quite gauche for a company to burn bridges with their upper management. This bodes poorly for ever hoping to attract executives in the future. Even Bobby Kotick got a more graceful farewell from Activision Blizzard, where they tried to clear his name. It is only prudent business.

Certainly, this is very immature. It wouldn't be out of context in HBO's Succession.

Whether what happened is right or just in some sense is a different conversation. We could speculate on what is going on in the company and why, but the tactlessness is evident.

replies(2): >>riboso+d8 >>ryandr+hx
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5. riboso+d8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 04:19:27
>>clnq+e4
> Whether it's right or just in some sense is a different conversation.

The same conversation if it's "mature", surely? I'm failing to see how one thinks turning a blind eye to like, decades of sexual impropriety and major internal culture issues to the point the state takes action against your company is "mature". Like, under what definition?

replies(1): >>clnq+hb
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6. clnq+hb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 04:41:08
>>riboso+d8
Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous. It does no good to harm a company further. Kotick did enough damage, he left, all that needed to be said about him was said, tirelessly. Every effort to get him to offer some reparations - expended.

So what was there to gain from the company speaking ill of their past employee? What was even left to say? Nothing. No one wants to work in an organization that vilifies its own people. It was prudent.

I will emphasize again that the morality of these situations is a separate matter from tact. It is very well possible that doing what is good for business does not always align with what is moral. But does this come as a surprise to anyone?

We can recognize that the situation is not one dimensional and not reduce it to such. The same applies to the press release from Open AI - it is graceless, that much can be observed. But we do not yet know whether it is reprehensible, exemplary, or somewhere in between in the sense of morality and justice. It will come out, in other channels rather than official press releases, like in Bobby's case.

replies(1): >>watwut+uF
7. DonHop+No[view] [source] 2023-11-18 06:23:04
>>janeje+(OP)
>The wording is very clearly hostile and aggressive

At least we can be sure that ChatGPT didn't write the statement, then.

Otherwise the last paragraph would have equivocated that both sides have a point.

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8. racket+Yr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 06:57:26
>>janeje+D2
When you look at the written word and find yourself consistently imputing clear intent which is hostile, aggressive, sarcastic, and demeaning which no one else but you sees, a thoughtful person would begin to introspect.
replies(1): >>janeje+z01
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9. ryandr+hx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 07:48:22
>>clnq+e4
People get fired all the time: suddenly, too. If I got fired by my company tomorrow, they wouldn't treat me with kid gloves, they'd just end my livelihood like it was nothing. I'd probably find out when I couldn't log in. Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell? We don't have royalty in the USA. One person is not inherently better than another.
replies(3): >>disgru+VV >>clnq+B51 >>insani+3B1
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10. watwut+uF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 09:02:11
>>clnq+hb
> Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous

To tell it in an exaggerated way, maturity should not imply sociopathy or completely disregard for everything.

Obviously I am referring here to Kottick situation. But, the definition where it is immature to tell the truth and mature to enable powerful bad players is wrong definition of maturity.

replies(1): >>clnq+V31
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11. disgru+VV[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 11:20:20
>>ryandr+hx
Because upper management have more power than you or I. If either of us were fired, it's unlikely to be front page news all over the world.

It sucks, but that's the world we live in, unfortunately.

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12. janeje+z01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 11:55:16
>>racket+Yr
Again, I'm not sure why you and the other person are just out for blood and keep trying to make it personal, but you can clearly feed it into NLP/ChatGPT and co and even the machines will tell you the actual wordings are aggressive.
replies(1): >>jstarf+pX1
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13. clnq+V31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 12:18:19
>>watwut+uF
I respect your belief that maturity involves elevating morality above corporate sagacity. It is noble.
replies(2): >>watwut+Bt1 >>Shamel+bT1
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14. clnq+B51[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 12:28:41
>>ryandr+hx
> Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell

Injustices are made to executives all the time. But airing dirty laundry is not sagacious.

replies(1): >>anonym+j02
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15. watwut+Bt1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 14:53:12
>>clnq+V31
I am not even demanding something super noble from mature people. I am fine with the idea that mature people do compromises. I do not expect managers to be saint like fighters for justice.

But, when people use "maturity" as argument for why someone must be enabler, should not do the morally or ethically right thing, then it gets irritating. Conversely, calling people "immature" because they did not acted in the most self serving but sleazy way is ridiculous.

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16. insani+3B1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 15:42:36
>>ryandr+hx
Because no one cares if you get fired but people really care if a CEO gets fired. The scope of a CEO's responsibilities are near-global across the company, firing them is a serious action. Your scope as an engineer is, typically, extremely small by comparison.

This isn't about being better at all.

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17. Shamel+bT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 17:18:49
>>clnq+V31
That comes across as pretty condescending. It's not like you have some sort of authoritative high ground about what does and doesn't constitute professionalism in the business world. It sounds to me that your version of professionalism is in line with what gets prescribed at your average mindless corporate human resources or public relations department. Which is fine, but there's zero proof that that is the correct way to do things, and it's actually naive on _your_ part to accept the status quo as is. And, as I said, incredibly condescending to assume it is somehow the "mature" point of view.
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18. jstarf+pX1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 17:40:57
>>janeje+z01
I'll bite. I even led the witness on this one by outright asking if it's aggressive.

> "a deliberative review process by the board, which concluded that he was not consistently candid in his communications with the board, hindering its ability to exercise its responsibilities."

> The provided text is not explicitly aggressive; however, it conveys a critical tone regarding the individual's communication, emphasizing hindrance to the board's responsibilities.

Did you actually run this through GPT...or did you poll Reddit?

replies(1): >>Camper+Uo2
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19. anonym+j02[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 17:56:18
>>clnq+B51
All I saw was one phrase indicating there was cause for termination, with no additional explanation. This doesn't seem like airing dirty laundry to me.
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20. Camper+Uo2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 20:10:21
>>jstarf+pX1
Context matters. It's hyper aggressive by the standards of similar communications (press releases announcing management shakeups) by similar entities (boards of directors).

Obviously it's not aggressive by the standards of everyday political drama or Internet forum arguments.

replies(1): >>racket+MZ5
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21. racket+MZ5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 20:41:05
>>Camper+Uo2
A text being objectively measurable as aggressive is a very different supposition than a text being subjectively, contextually aggressive.

It's fair to say that usually if the board isn't obfuscating or outright lying in their announcements, that itself is an indicator of acrimony.

But usually, the board can financially incentivize a CEO to "step down" or even help them find a soft landing at another company to make it look like a mutually agreed on transition. Since they know this oustered CEO isn't interested in making nice in public, they really had no choice but to try to get in front of the story.

Given the fallout which is still spreading, I think they would've rather cut him a fat check for an explicit or implicit NDA and thanked him for his amazing contributions while wishing him well on his future endeavors if that option had been on the table.

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