zlacker

[parent] [thread] 49 comments
1. sanswo+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-10-04 20:22:39
I don't update my phone every year but I also don't really want the progress of software or tech in general determined by the laggards.
replies(3): >>kimber+V3 >>hamand+zj >>jen20+1H
2. kimber+V3[view] [source] 2023-10-04 20:39:09
>>sanswo+(OP)
I think that a new phone release should just be warranted. The trigger should be "we made significant improvements that couldn't be applied in software to the old device" instead of "it's October"
replies(5): >>sanswo+W7 >>tshadd+uv >>Improv+tz >>dheera+eL >>ako+KZ
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3. sanswo+W7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 20:55:09
>>kimber+V3
An improved camera can't be something applied in software, a faster chip can't be applied in software. So by your own standard every version is warranted.
replies(2): >>kimber+1f >>rurp+9n
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4. kimber+1f[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 21:30:22
>>sanswo+W7
"significant" is the key word here. I'd be hard pressed to think of a generational release of an existing phone line in the last 5 years that I would describe as a "significant" improvement.

The things you listed (camera and chip speed) are basically the only things left that these companies can claim is better than last year's model, but only because it's so easy to use synthetic benchmarks and numbers that mean nothing to make them sound like a dramatic improvement despite the fact that we've reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of diminishing returns on the user experience for smartphones in their current form. More megapixels don't matter anymore, CPUs are hardly a limiting factor and yearly gains on their performance are marginal at best, and we have more than enough RAM for pretty much all use cases.

My point is that if these companies insist on re-releasing the same phone every time, maybe they could space it out a little.

replies(3): >>sanswo+8n >>admax8+4F >>dghlsa+6I
5. hamand+zj[view] [source] 2023-10-04 21:57:49
>>sanswo+(OP)
If anything it seems to me like hardware advances are directly correlated with increasingly worse software.
replies(1): >>sanswo+bo
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6. sanswo+8n[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 22:19:56
>>kimber+1f
Just because you don't value the type of improvements doesn't mean there aren't improvements. It just means you probably don't need to upgrade this year.
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7. rurp+9n[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 22:20:01
>>sanswo+W7
My last three phone upgrades have been decidedly 'meh', and I only upgrade every 2-3 years. There have been some marginal improvements in battery life and performance, and some software niceties; but those get counteracted by bloat, regressions, and UX churn. Replacable battery and storage becoming less common is categorically worse for users.

A phone with upgradable parts and minimal bloat would be better than any recent phone I've had, but it would also be less profitable for Google so obviously they will avoid that as much as possible.

replies(1): >>ethbr1+yA
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8. sanswo+bo[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 22:27:02
>>hamand+zj
People have been saying this literally since the release of the pentium and probably earlier. From where I'm sitting software is millions of times better today than it was in the 90s when I first started hearing people saying this(usually complaining about developers using C++ instead of assembly).

Even just on the iphone the improvements in software have been dramatic over the past 10 years. Go install one of the early versions of ios on the simulator some time to see how far we've come.

replies(5): >>Barrin+Tq >>grumpy+Aw >>dheera+UL >>scarfa+PV >>vetina+002
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9. Barrin+Tq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 22:50:04
>>sanswo+bo
> From where I'm sitting software is millions of times better today than it was in the 90s

I feel compelled to bring up this tweet from John Carmack I just saw a few hours ago. The most popular editor on the planet feels laggier than stuff Borland made in the 90s, on hardware probably a thousand times as fast. I don't know how anyone can say software is great with a straight face.

We have supercomputers in our pockets and on the slightly aged phone my dad refuses to upgrade from four years ago many apps lag. They display like 5 widgets or 20 rows of items at any given time

https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1709651442762481877?s=20

replies(3): >>drchic+gs >>sanswo+us >>kaba0+e31
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10. drchic+gs[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 23:00:27
>>Barrin+Tq
The ratio of users who give a shit about 100ms of input lag on a 4 year old phone is tiny compared to devs who cared about typing lag 20 years ago
replies(1): >>TeMPOr+vz
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11. sanswo+us[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 23:01:34
>>Barrin+Tq
Turbo C++ was my first IDE(a birthday present when I was a kid) and I will always be grateful of it for triggering my love of programming but to say that is even in the same category as a modern IDE is a huge stretch. Of course modern stuff is laggier for most IDE's as it's doing real time analysis on your code as you type. If you want to compare it with a Borland IDE from the 90s open up notepad and start typing.
replies(1): >>pjmlp+wm1
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12. tshadd+uv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 23:29:26
>>kimber+V3
But it's silly to imply that there would be a new release every October even if they hadn't designed a new phone and prepared it for mass manufacture. What determines whether each release is "warranted" is, roughly, whether people buy the new one.
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13. grumpy+Aw[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-04 23:39:48
>>sanswo+bo
> From where I'm sitting software is millions of times better today than it was in the 90s when I first started hearing people saying this.

Define better. I enjoyed computers more in the 80s. There was less bureaucracy. Cubase on the Atari ST never crashed. The modern C++ one does crash, often.

replies(1): >>sanswo+5C
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14. Improv+tz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:04:57
>>kimber+V3
im all about keeping my phone 5+ years, but I think that “significant” progress is likely only realized in small incremental amounts..
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15. TeMPOr+vz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:05:11
>>drchic+gs
It isn't. The users are just conditioned to shut up. Technology universally sucks, but it's magic, and it's all a supplier-driven market with high natural barriers to entry - meaning vendors don't give a flying fuck about what the users think, the users are to buy what they're given and be happy about it - so everyone just accepts it's how it's supposed to be, and adjusts their lives to work around tech being shit.
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16. ethbr1+yA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:16:51
>>rurp+9n
Honestly, one of my favorite phones was the Motorola (what's now) Power.

Middling specs. Huge battery.

I'm still on a Pixel 4a 5G now, because I haven't seen any reason to upgrade.

But I'm a "I want to be able to accidentally run over my phone with a car, shrug, and go get another one" type of person. (Despite the fact I've never actually cracked a screen...)

replies(2): >>ryanbr+KB >>aeriqu+9d1
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17. ryanbr+KB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:29:30
>>ethbr1+yA
I still use a Motorola G(whatever, honestly can't remember) Power. Works fine, doesn't lag. The camera is nothing to write home about but I have a DSLR for good pictures and all my phone pictures are crap due to a hand tremor that stabilization can't accomodate for anyway.

Battery lasts forever and a day and there's never been a situation where I've felt prevented or limited by the phone.

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18. sanswo+5C[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:32:41
>>grumpy+Aw
Better features, better functionality.

Much like with old IDEs old DAWs did a lot less. If you truely prefer it why aren't you still running Cubase on an old Atari or emulator?

Besides that there is the whole rose tinted glasses thing. My early experiences getting FreeBSD and Slackware running on my computers, and setting up X for example were something I'd never trade and taught me a lot about debugging systems, configs, etc. But that whole process was objectively worse than today.

replies(1): >>redeem+cF
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19. admax8+4F[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:58:13
>>kimber+1f
And yet compare this years phone to a phone 5 years old. There is a large different. It just so happens that the yearly increase isn't seen as "significant" to you.
replies(1): >>Dylan1+lR
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20. redeem+cF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 00:59:15
>>sanswo+5C
both can be true. software has become objectively more abominable each passing year. spyware is being normalized, locking down and taking away control from users is being spoonfed to hipster users as "opinionated" and "curated". Have you taken a look at the chromium codebase lately? 1.5GB of compressed (lzma) "code". W T F. Just look 10-15 years ago and look at khtml, look at webkit a few years after the fork, then look at this shit? we still ordered crap from amazon back then. We still had forms to submit to HN or similar. Sure, we didnt have thin webgl wrappers, webusb, webmidi, web-wipe-my-ass updates to our japanese toilets. The amount of direct crap being put into almost everything is beyond measure
replies(1): >>sanswo+6H
21. jen20+1H[view] [source] 2023-10-05 01:16:11
>>sanswo+(OP)
Indeed so: I do replace mine every year because each generation has a successively better camera, and I value being able to take better pictures with the device I have available [1] more than I value the incremental cost to me of selling the old one and buying a new one each year (and iPhones hold their value very well!)

By the requests of the luddites here, I should not be able to do better than a 5 year old camera to appease them.

[1]: I also have a DSLR for special occasions, but I do not carry that round with me generally...

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22. sanswo+6H[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 01:16:46
>>redeem+cF
All those things you're complaining about existed in the past in the form of applets, flash scripts, and activex. They were way worse than a bunch of web* standards.

As for curated/opinionated, most people don't want to be power users. Most people never did it was just in the 90s you had little choice. If you want to be a power user today the options are still there.

replies(1): >>redeem+iq1
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23. dghlsa+6I[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 01:25:08
>>kimber+1f
Depends on your use case.

For me, the addition of satelite SOS introduced on iPhone 14 is a game changer. I do enough out of cell range activity that I carry a SPOT device.

The ability for one more device (and pricy subscription) to be eaten by my phone is fantastic.

For others it might be onboard ai capabilities.

Each incremental hardware update to an iPhone tips the utility scales for someone, and is a completely ignorable change for others. Some people don’t care a bit that the new iPhone has a 2k nit brightness, for others, that is the feature they’ve been waiting for to upgrade.

I don’t pay attention to androids much, but it is pretty rare for iPhone full number bumps not to have a hardware feature that is new.

replies(1): >>light_+Mr1
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24. dheera+eL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 01:55:41
>>kimber+V3
The reason Google releases a phone every October is because Apple releases a phone around the same time.
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25. dheera+UL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 02:05:41
>>sanswo+bo
I don't know, Microsoft Word 2.0 started up on a high-end machine of its time faster than Google Docs with its stupid progress bars.

My Tesla phone key takes 15+ seconds to connect bluetooth and unlock the car, making me look like a goddamn idiot while I keep yanking the car handle while bystanders stare at me as if I'm a car thief.

This stuff should take <0.01s in 2023 by Moore's Law. Computers should work imperceptibly fast by now for the same high-level tasks.

replies(2): >>kaba0+q31 >>vel0ci+M31
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26. Dylan1+lR[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 02:59:34
>>admax8+4F
When you say "seen as", are you trying to imply that they're wrong? Because what you said can be true without them being wrong at all.

It makes perfect sense that five non-significant changes can add up to a significant change.

So the suggestion would be 1 or 2 releases instead, after more of the changes build up, instead of 5 releases.

Personally I think yearly is fine for manufacturers that only have a couple models. But they need to actually support things for a reasonable lifetime, and should be mocked for having frequent releases if they don't have a good support lifetime.

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27. scarfa+PV[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 03:51:46
>>sanswo+bo
Sure ARM based Mac laptops are great. But x86 laptops are still just as loud, hot with horrible battery life as they always have been.
replies(1): >>ahartm+tq1
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28. ako+KZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 04:45:20
>>kimber+V3
Having a cadence helps improve quality by standardization and repetition. It’s just like with agile and scrum, the cadence improves quality, and releasing often reduces risks by making smaller changes.
replies(1): >>gambit+2i1
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29. kaba0+e31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 05:33:00
>>Barrin+Tq
In the meanwhile, I know plenty of my friends happily daily driving an iphone 8, a 6 years old device.
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30. kaba0+q31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 05:35:39
>>dheera+UL
Moore’s law has never been about speed - and serial speed has been on a very slow increase rate year-after-year for more than a decade now. The current Microsoft Word can do a million times more things than 2.0.
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31. vel0ci+M31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 05:40:11
>>dheera+UL
Why are you using Google Docs instead of Word 2.0 then?
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32. aeriqu+9d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 07:36:26
>>ethbr1+yA
I hold no love for Apple but the phone I used the longest was my iPhone 3GS. I think 5 years or so but only because it was jailbroken. (Thanks saurik!) Otherwise it would have been half as useful (or secure since I got fixes to exploits faster than Apple made then).

The initial SailfishOS phone from Jolla was supported for 7+ years and was also a really nice experience.

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33. gambit+2i1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 08:24:08
>>ako+KZ
>> It’s just like with agile and scrum, the cadence improves quality

In my experience of years working in agile and scrum methodologies all cadence does is it makes developers release unfinished code to tick boxes and show that they are productive every sprint.

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34. pjmlp+wm1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 09:06:14
>>sanswo+us
Borland IDEs were definitly better than Notepad.
replies(1): >>sanswo+4p1
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35. sanswo+4p1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 09:32:43
>>pjmlp+wm1
The editor did nothing more than notepad does today and the IDE at least back when I was using it was basically just a compiler, debugger with basic inspection window and stepping and a make system. It wasn't doing realtime formatting of your code, inspection for errors, referencing to other parts of code, autocompletion, syntax highlighting, etc.
replies(1): >>pjmlp+Sr1
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36. redeem+iq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 09:48:01
>>sanswo+6H
applets were largely unused and flash was mostly used for ads, neither of which were even remotely as huge and gross as the chromium codebase.

nowadays you have many "desktop" applications bundling their own special build of chrome just because developers are so lazy(and I'd say many severely lacking critical judgement) they feel like taking their webapp and deploying as a "desktop" application.

The situation is infinitely much worse than it was in 1995.

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37. ahartm+tq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 09:50:03
>>scarfa+PV
Hyperbole much?

2003 x86 laptop: 1-2h battery life, fan ~always on, annoying tonal fan noise

2023 x86 laptop: 6-10h battery life, fan off in idle, some kind of wide spectrum whooshing sound when on

replies(1): >>scarfa+bw1
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38. light_+Mr1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 10:05:26
>>dghlsa+6I
Yeah. Don't do that.

This is not a replacement for a SPOT device. It's a backup. You might need to move around reportedly, point it very carefully to find a satellite, coverage isn't great, even minimal tree cover is a problem, etc. Plenty of cases where a SPOT device would be a life saver and where this would not.

I too would like to ditch mine. But I'd rather be alive in a real emergency than die because I broke my leg and can't walk around in a circle pointing the phone right.

replies(1): >>dghlsa+m42
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39. pjmlp+Sr1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 10:06:55
>>sanswo+4p1
Stuck in MS-DOS?

As someone that used all their products from MS-DOS, through Windows 3.x days up to switching to Visual C++ 6.0, I clearly remeber code completion, syntax highlighting and macros, three features that Notepad isn't capable of.

As easily proven, by reading the manuals available in Bitsavers.

replies(2): >>sanswo+Wu1 >>vetina+d12
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40. sanswo+Wu1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 10:37:46
>>pjmlp+Sr1
Yeah looks like you're right about at least the syntax highlighting and macros, I can't find any reference to Borland doing code completion back then and what I did find was people from much later complaining that it'd take up to 5 seconds to return suggestions, I used it around 4.5 and really don't remember any of those features though. I guess it was almost 30 years ago now though and I was mostly just interested in making the asteroids do weird things.

So replace Notepad with Notepad++ in my previous comments. There are definitely fast editors that do the same thing as Borland editors did back then the ones like VSC do a whole lot more and support a whole lot more.

replies(1): >>pjmlp+cz1
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41. scarfa+bw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 10:52:01
>>ahartm+tq1
You realize how bad 6 hour battery life is right compared to the MacBook Air?

And my work Microsoft Surface laptop fan never shuts off.

replies(1): >>goosed+CH1
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42. pjmlp+cz1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 11:21:54
>>sanswo+Wu1
Besides moving goalposts, Notepad++ still isn't on the same league as Borland's IDEs.
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43. goosed+CH1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 12:28:07
>>scarfa+bw1
And my work x86 Thinkpad fan rarely spins up and when it does it's way quieter than my Intel MBP ever was. Also gets 8 hours battery life web browsing which is good enough.

It's almost like there's a spectrum of PCs.

replies(1): >>scarfa+TU1
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44. scarfa+TU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 13:45:11
>>goosed+CH1
I never said that x86 MacBooks didn’t suck.

My former work 16 inch MacBook Pro could easily make it through a day and half of decently heavy work and conference calls doing presentations over Chime (how do you say where you worked without saying where you worked) on battery when on site at a customer. Some of their team couldn’t make it.

My personal MacBook Air (M2) can make it 16+ hours with a relative light workload and there is no fan.

Why would I ever in 2023 still put up with a heavy, loud, low battery life laptop when I could get an M1 Air for less than $1000?

replies(1): >>smolde+OV5
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45. vetina+002[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 14:10:26
>>sanswo+bo
You reminded me the 90's joke: "What is Windows? An 386 emulator for Pentium".
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46. vetina+d12[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 14:17:33
>>pjmlp+Sr1
Turbo Pascal 7 did syntax highlighting, as well as source-level debugging. That was on top of nice-to-have features like auto-indenting.

It was a DOS, Turbo Vision application.

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47. dghlsa+m42[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-05 14:33:14
>>light_+Mr1
My SPOT has a pretty significant failure rate at getting tracking messages out (~20% of my tracking dots are unsuccessful), and has no feedback mechanism to indicate whether it was successfully sent. Unless emergency messages are sent using a different technique than tracking messages I’m not sure I trust the spot much either.
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48. smolde+OV5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-06 18:01:38
>>scarfa+TU1
My M1 Macbook Air was lucky to make it 6 hours with Docker running in the background. If I was editing text I could get maybe 10-12 hours. For my money, there are lots of machines that would run cooler and more efficiently.

> Why would I ever in 2023 still put up with a heavy, loud, low battery life laptop when I could get an M1 Air for less than $1000?

Because your workload isn't compatible with MacOS, and Apple makes no effort to remedy it at a software-level? Docker should not be more energy efficient on Windows than it is on Mac... and that's really just the tip of the incompatibility iceberg. Unless your workload is explicitly compatible with ARM, it probably Just Works better on x86.

replies(1): >>scarfa+d76
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49. scarfa+d76[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-06 18:51:21
>>smolde+OV5
So how long does you Windows laptop battery last when running Docker? How loud do the fans get?
replies(1): >>smolde+rg6
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50. smolde+rg6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-06 19:38:15
>>scarfa+d76
It hovered around 40c, about the same as my Macbook Air. Fans kicked on at 45c, so idling was silent (but working wasn't).

The real killer-app for me was just switching to Linux as my base OS. I can leave containers idling while watching YouTube at a cool 27c internally. I'm using a 6-7 year old T460s, but honestly I feel like I could get away with even weaker hardware if I wanted. A Macbook Air running Linux might be a candidate if I didn't need to wait for basic functionality to get reverse-engineered. As-is though, you can count me among the people who doesn't quite need an upgrade yet.

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