zlacker

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1. dang+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-09-29 21:09:34
[stub for offtopicness]
replies(2): >>aga98m+RNdy2 >>bhaney+7Wdy2
2. emoden+KPdy2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 19:25:23
>>aga98m+RNdy2
Perhaps verisimilar then.
3. crazyg+yQdy2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 19:30:33
>>aga98m+RNdy2
The point is that it's not based on hallucination -- it's generated out of the authentic details provided from other images.

There's definitely a middle ground here that we perhaps don't have a good word for. E.g. what do we call a painting made by an artist who sat in front of the scene they depicted, vs. a painting made by an artist from their imagination? There's certainly some sense in which the first one was an "authentic" scene.

replies(2): >>Cobras+uVdy2 >>thomas+x7ey2
4. Cobras+uVdy2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 19:57:22
>>crazyg+yQdy2
Yeah, except it's still absolutely vulnerable to hallucination. Look at the last set of images on "Limitations" page. The algorithm knows that there's a sign with text there, and it uses the original image to get the right letters in there, but it randomly reorders the letters rather than using the source image. "Real" and "authentic" is extremely misleading here.

That said, props to them for calling out the limitations so clearly. I really appreciate it when people are up front with the problems like that.

5. bhaney+7Wdy2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 19:59:52
>>dang+(OP)
Cool tech, but plastering "authentic" all over this kind of generated photography is really disingenuous and just rubs me the wrong way. I get that it's informed by real details from other photos, but that's not what authentic means.

If I buy an "authentic Rolex" and receive a Chinese Rolex clone that's built similarly based on observations of a real Rolex, I'm going to feel scammed and very upset. And I'm much more protective of my memories than I would be of a watch.

replies(7): >>cmdli+7Xdy2 >>101008+lZdy2 >>drewco+92ey2 >>neilv+R4ey2 >>thomas+96ey2 >>Quercu+a6ey2 >>dang+w7ey2
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6. cmdli+7Xdy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:06:07
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
I would argue that authentic is a relative term, and actually helped me understand the product more easily. IMO, it is “authentic” because, compared to other image fills, it tries to fill in the data using real data from other photos.
replies(6): >>endisn+FXdy2 >>jamesh+fYdy2 >>sdfghs+7Zdy2 >>tremon+I2ey2 >>marric+54ey2 >>HaZeus+55ey2
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7. endisn+FXdy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:08:18
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
IDK, when I think authentic, I think "genuine", and no image generation is genuine by definition. this is not a bad thing necessarily, but it's important to frame these things correctly.

ultimately we oughta think about what we are referring to. if we are talking about a photograph taken by someone, the authenticity is ultimately coming from the combination of the photograph and camera used. so when you think of a genuine photo in this scenario you expect it to be fundamentally taken by the user by a particular camera to create a particular photograph. you can use devices to take a photo without pressing the button, such as a timer, but the photograph and camera are both fundamental to the authenticity of the image. if the camera is no longer entirely involved in the generation of the photograph I would say that it is no longer genuine.

Reference driven as described in the article is more appropriate, but alas it is verbose. normally such pedantry bores me, but in this case it's pretty tantamount to what it is being presented in this case.

replies(1): >>tremon+q5ey2
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8. jamesh+fYdy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:11:01
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
We need a new word: authentish.
replies(1): >>smcnal+h7ey2
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9. sdfghs+7Zdy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:14:55
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
HN loves arguing about words.
replies(1): >>debugn+61ey2
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10. 101008+lZdy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:16:02
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
Yeah, I think the first example is bad. This shouldn't be used for the photos you took. What's the purpose of having a photo if it wasn't the real moment you captured? I could understand the usage in marketing or event photographies, but for memories with your loved ones (as the first example tries to show it) it just doesn't make sense to me.

Two anecdotes:

1. A friend of mine met his favourite author (traveled from one continent to another for a signing event). When he shaked hands with the author, a friend took a photo. A lady (still hated by us!) step in the middle, and blocked the photo. Maybe an IA or a talented person could remove her, use a footage photo of the author and rebuild the photo... but why? What's the purpose of that?

2. A few months ago during the pandemic I scanned all the printed pictures of my grand parents with my phone. Aftre scanning like 200s, I checked one and I zoomed in: the stupid app applied some IA to make it better and it just was worse. I don't care if it looks better for the untrained eye: my grandparents didn't look like that. I now have stupid horrible verson of the scanned photos, where my grand parents appear with smooth skin and weird eyes.

replies(2): >>IanCal+h1ey2 >>nuance+13ey2
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11. debugn+61ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:27:24
>>sdfghs+7Zdy2
And recent HN posts love to twist them and reinterpret them just for promotion.
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12. IanCal+h1ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:28:50
>>101008+lZdy2
I totally agree with 2. I'm less sure on 1. Imagine it's perfect - it would be an accurate representation of what was really there. The real photo is a snapshot of a very specific time that doesn't represent the broader context of what happened.

A different angle, if a friend had painted the encounter instead, it wouldn't be exact but it would be a snapshot of a memory.

I'm not hugely arguing in favour of it but I think there's different scales here, from cameras doing "merge pictures half a second apart so people have their eyes open" to "totally change their face".

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13. drewco+92ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:33:35
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
> plastering "authentic" all over this kind of generated photography is really disingenuous

No more so than "virtual," which used to mean "true." Or "literal" which used to be the opposite of "figurative." It's just another word being used auto-autonymically.

Definitio fugit.

replies(1): >>thomas+x6ey2
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14. tremon+I2ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:37:13
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
How do they know the data from the other photos is real?
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15. nuance+13ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:39:15
>>101008+lZdy2
Is IA French for AI? (Like UE and many other abbreviations)? I could look it up but might as well ask the question.
replies(2): >>nargek+S5ey2 >>smcnal+O6ey2
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16. marric+54ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:46:15
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
It's "authentic" in the same way that when you see something labeled authentic it makes you more likely to question if it's actually what it says it is because authentic thing don't need such labels plastered on them.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure "reconstructed" it the honest word to use.

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17. neilv+R4ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:51:19
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
They really need to not use the term "authentic" to name this.

They also need to be very, very careful when introducing capability to falsify photographic images convincingly.

Using the term "authentic" for this (and how do they even know what's an authentic memory?) doesn't sound like being very, very careful. It sounds like being gratuitously reckless.

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18. HaZeus+55ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:53:05
>>cmdli+7Xdy2
I'd call that "contextual" rather than authentic.
replies(1): >>waynes+c
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19. tremon+q5ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:55:00
>>endisn+FXdy2
I think "composite" would be more accurate to describe this process. As in, "complete a picture using image composition".
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20. nargek+S5ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 20:57:49
>>nuance+13ey2
Yes it is !

IA -> Intelligence Artificielle

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21. thomas+96ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:00:03
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
This literally goes against the meaning of the word authenticity.

Call it "realistic". Words matter.

replies(1): >>Timon3+mT
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22. Quercu+a6ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:00:03
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
Seems like it's only a matter of degree, given that modern cell phone cameras take image bursts and combine them into a single output image. Filling in details in a scene from other photos taken at the same time doesn't really seem that different to me. And seeing that photography has never really been capturing real life exactly, is it really that big a deal? Look at Ansel Adams - he heavily edited his "real-life" photographs, and changed them over the years as he made subsequent prints.

(Disclaimer: work for Google but have nothing to do with this project.)

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23. thomas+x6ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:02:18
>>drewco+92ey2
Virtual never meant real.

Literally is often used in a sarcastic context. That sarcasm depends on the word meaning what it means.

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24. smcnal+O6ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:03:59
>>nuance+13ey2
In Spanish, too — and other subject–object–verb languages
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25. smcnal+h7ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:07:29
>>jamesh+fYdy2
Like “truthy.”
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26. dang+w7ey2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:09:15
>>bhaney+7Wdy2
Ok, we've taken authenticity out of the title above.
27. thomas+x7ey2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 21:09:27
>>crazyg+yQdy2
Here are some better words of the top of my head:

Intentional

Contextual

Everything about this project goes against the meaning of authenticity.

28. aga98m+RNdy2[view] [source] 2023-09-29 19:13:56
>>dang+(OP)
I do not agree with their usage of the word "Authentic".
replies(2): >>emoden+KPdy2 >>crazyg+yQdy2
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29. waynes+c[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 21:10:45
>>HaZeus+55ey2
let me give you an example. when i draw a mustache on a face in ms paint in brown, that's contextual but not authentic.
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30. Timon3+mT[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-30 08:07:25
>>thomas+96ey2
"Realistic" is the wrong word, since that's what infill models are already doing, and the word is already used for that. You'd have to find something that differentiates between plausibly realistic and contextual realistic infill.
replies(1): >>thomas+iT4
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31. thomas+iT4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-01 18:29:47
>>Timon3+mT
> contextual realistic

That works fine.

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