zlacker

Rachel nailed it, as usual. I was an early adapter and have a houseful of Hue stuff, but over the last year or so I've switched to buying Nanoleaf bulbs. Hue is a little nicer, but not enough to make their terrible app worth the hassle.

I've seen a few recommendations now for the Ikea Dirigera hub, so fine. I've ordered one. Assuming it works as expected, I'll migrate everything next week. So long, Philips. I liked your stuff, but why'd you have to get greedy? Was being twice the price of your competition not enough?

>>kstrau+(OP)
Govee are also very popular now, I haven't personally used any but I have a mix of Hue + a bunch of other stuff powered mostly through HA and it's always worked pretty flawlessly for me using their Hue bridge of course. Even the PC color sync works pretty well with not much latency considering it's a software implementation -> network -> bridge -> wireless to the lights. It's the most non-hacker-friendly "ambilight" setup I've ever used.

>>kstrau+(OP)
I now have a couple of different app controllable LEDs. By far, the Hue app has been the best of the bunch. However, my app recently gave me the "Starting soon, you'll need to be signed in" notice. I am very unhappy with this, as everything I want my lights to do is working perfectly fine without even needing an account to be signed into.

From the moment I first saw the notice, I started wondering if I'll have to find a new app. But because "soon" has not arrived, I just have been ignoring it. I hope when "soon" arrives it will be a weekend so I have plenty of time to deal with it.

>>kstrau+(OP)
I use the Ikea lights and bridge, although mine is a few years old at this point. Everything just works and I've maybe had 1 issue in just over 4 years. Easily integrates with either Google Home or HomeKit or HA. My only complaint is (my) bridge needs hardwire ethernet access and each bridge only supports 5 devices. I bought one of the wireless physical switches which seemed like it would come in handy, but the battery died pretty quick. Not a big deal though as I never used it anyway, but having the option was nice.

>>seanp2+G
I have a Govee brand humidity sensor that works great. Bluetooth only (there are wifi models too iirc, Bluetooth was fine for my purpose), connects instantly & reliably, no account or other bs.

I haven’t gone in much for home automation so can’t speak to how well it integrates with anything else, but this thing at least works great.

>>chrsst+U2
Wait, please define "device" as used in that sentence. Not counting bulbs, right?

>>dylan6+d1
The BestBuy Insignia brand smart switches died years ago (they shut the clowd servers down and sent me gift cards for the purchase price, nice) but they keep working with HomeKit every day.

Hopefully I can just block my Hueshit at the router and they'll keep doing what they do, otherwise off to goodwill.

>>kstrau+(OP)
Matter makes it a lot easier to mix and match products from different ecosystems. You can get 3 A19 nanoleaf RGB blubs that support Matter over Thread for the price of one Hue RGB A19. The Hue might be better but I doubt its 3 times better (I have a bunch of Hue lights and no nanoleafs yet).

I'll be moving to matter blubs (whatever brand strikes the best balance between price and quality) in the future and only using Hue bulbs when its necessary for features that aren't supported with Matter (like Hue Sync).

>>bombca+F6
>clowd servers

it's like a portmanteau between clown + cloud, because most of these cloud things I swear are led by clowns. I like it a lot!!

>>kstrau+o6
Any light you want to independently control is a device. So yes, each bulb is a device. But that was with the TRADFRI, which it seems they don't sell anymore. It looks like the DIRIGERA supports up to 100 devices though, so probably nothing to worry about. Feels like I probably bought the first gen of their smart products.

>>dylan6+y8
I typod it, the spell checker fixed it, and then I thought the exact same thing, and went back and broke it again.

I'm claiming it and hereby releasing it into the public domain! :D

>>kstrau+(OP)
I’ve had great experience with the IKEA stuff. I even still have the old Tradfri hub. I haven’t really had any make problems with it, despite the reputation it has received.

I have it connected to Homekit via an Apple TV.

My main complaint is how big their outlets are.

>>chrsst+U2
> each bridge only supports 5 devices.

I still have one of the original hubs and I definitely have more than 5 devices (light bulbs and outlets) working without problem.

> I bought one of the wireless physical switches which seemed like it would come in handy, but the battery died pretty quick

I have at least 3 physical switches in use and they’ve lasted at least 2 years so far.

>>LeafIt+Tj
My first setup was for my apartment which did not have any overhead lights or a switched outlet. Ikea's came with a remote and you could use it hubless (just pair directly to up to 10 bulbs). No internet needed and it actually never broke for the 3 years I needed it.

>>bombca+gb
You need a PR for this. Someone start a repo. And while we’re at it, can we think of something better than enshitification? It just doesn’t roll off the tongue very well at all.

>>nerdix+W7
I just bought Nanoleaf bulbs and they just don’t get bright enough. Then I have issues where there’s always 2 or 3 bulbs out of 6 that don’t respond and they’re all next to HomePods and routers etc…I really hate that Philips went down this route because so far they definitely seem to have the better product.

>>kstrau+(OP)
have you used the nanoleaf api? I just want to be able to control my lights from my terminal and I'm not smart enough at hacking to get hue to work

>>heyoni+fv
I've always been partial for "slumping into the melt" - a term from forging metal and glass. Everything becomes a even bland useless but barely working mix in the crucible of modern finance.

>>heyoni+Pv
BTW, the firmware update from the last week or so made a world of difference in the stability.

I do wish they were brighter.

>>dylan6+d1
I was also very unhappy to see that notice. However, If you tap “learn more”, it sounds like creating an account is optional. You’ll only need an account to opt-in to certain features, like controlling your lights when away from home, etc.

>>heyoni+fv
enshitification is just so onomatopoeically pleasing though. it's also like one of those fun German words, but in English.

It's similar to one of those George Carlin bits where putting a curse word in the middle of an ordinary word changes the power of the word. incredible -> infuckingcredible absolutely -> absofuckinglutely

I just don't know what enification means.

>>dylan6+Kz
In German it would be Verscheißigung?

>>kstrau+(OP)
When Ikea came out with smart home stuff, I bet that they would get it right, or at least not as bad as the others (I previously suffered through the enshitification of Samsung's SmartThings). In my experience their stuff has been flimsy and not sure trustworthy. It at least works without an app, so far, but I've not been able to regain any enthusiasm for the promise of home automation

>>kstrau+(OP)
I've completely replaced all my Hue lights with Lutron Casetas. They work so much better than individual light bulbs talking to the bridge. I use Apple Home which is mostly meh, but feels more robust than Hue or Google Home.

>>kstrau+(OP)
As an electronics guy with both backend and frontend programming experience for me there are three routes when it comes to my home infrastructure:

1. Buy something dumb, non-smart, non-cloud

2. Build it myself

3. Buy something that can be hacked and used with my own infrastructure

The problem isn't even their infrastructure, it is that they decide when they want to change it. Even if it was all good faith changes, that could be a reliability issue and force me to dedicate time to the issue on their whim. I don't like that. If I run such things myself I can decide myself when to update and how much time I want to invest when (provided the system is decoupled from the public internet).

And this point isn't even about any single company trading the good will of their customers bit by bit — it is just about me not having to jump when their service changes or ends for whatever reason (and there are many).

>>dylan6+Kz
Tom Scott did a video about this a few years ago.

https://youtu.be/dt22yWYX64w

>>bombca+gb
"Why yes, our silver-haired CEO enshittified the product with a data-mining clowd service!"

>>blindr+7D
I have nearly all of our light switches on Casetas (except for things like bathroom and closets, where we're not sitting/lying down or care about dim levels).

However... in some rooms (office and board game room), I do like having the option for cool white during the day, and warm white at night. So I like having Hues there.

So, while Casetas are good for automating a single color, you still need bulb-level automation for anything involving multiple colors.

>>kstrau+(OP)
I only have three in the home office. Do ypu know how the 3rd party clients are affected with the recent changes?

>>heyoni+fv
> And while we’re at it, can we think of something better than enshitification? It just doesn’t roll off the tongue very well at all.

I think a term that doesn't slide off the tongue actually captures some of the feeling of what enshitification is.

>>atoav+iD
I do the same. Everything “smart” that I need I build myself. Just buy a few esp32 or arduinos and write it up or use it with node red.

It’s not hard if you know a little programming and electronics.

I assume that any smart devices that I can buy are just money machines, made to spy on me, or both.

>>atoav+iD
> they decide when they want to change it

Not only when, but the changes they make are almost universally a rewriting of the assumptions at time of purchase, where you lose.

>>atoav+iD
Nothing wrong with buying smart equipment, as long as it's local first using common protocols like generic Zigbee. That way you don't NEED to use the manufacturers hubs and interfaces and you substitute out for your own controller like Homeassistant or a third party Hub.

>>golem1+8C
There is already a german word for it, it's called "Verschlimbesserung". Which you could translate to "Improving but making it worse", sounds better in german so. :)

>>inasio+WC
Unfortunately, this. I have expected more from Ikea, but I guess they have to keep the prices low. :/

>>chrsst+U2
I have about four or more different products, including Hue, Ikea, Mirabella Genio.

So far Genio is cheaper and works at least as well as the rest.

>>heyoni+Pv
Philips hasn’t bern involved since the spin-off in 2016, other than Signify being allowed to sell under their name.

>>kstrau+(OP)
> I was an early adapter

I see what you did there.

>>inasio+WC
When was SmartThings good? I missed that. The only thing I use it for is an oven that, even though it is connected to the internet, can't manage to update the time when daylight savings time changes. To get the oven to update the time, you have to open the app, find the oven, go to Settings, turn OFF the "automatic time sync" option and then turn it back on again. Every 6 months.

I performed this ritual last weekend, and followed up by filing a bug report about what a shitshow the whole thing was from the feedback option in the app. I got a very nice message back from Samsung telling me my message had come to the wrong place and that I should do something different if I wanted to give feedback about the app. FFS.

>>atoav+iD
A number 4. would be: Buy from an established lighting company that publishes compatibility tests. It may not have all the bells and whistles but focuses on doing one thing right, which is to switch a light. My Lutron’s have never needed a debug since install and I get all the convenience and forget about it. I think a lot of people get into home automation to constantly tweak stuff. If that is what tickles them sure. For me, like anything automated, I want it to work in the background and provide some quality of life improvements and never have to think about it again.

>>atoav+iD
I think I have one voice-activated switch that replaced X10 in a room lacking wiring for a convenient regular light switch, a low temp alarm, and a camera/temp sensor I put together myself.

I understand there are people who like to fiddle with this stuff but mostly I don’t get the attraction.

>>atoav+iD
The trust has been broken in electronics/technology products in general

There is very little loyalty to the customer from the manufacturers, and so customers are now weary and loosing their loyalty for brands in the way consumers traditionally did.

>>mikub+tJ
Yeah, but that has no cussword component.

Verschlimmbesserung could be translated as imworsement maybe?

>>dugite+nJ
Indeed. Buy devices that comply with standards.

It's a little like buying some networking device that suppports only proprietary protocols and then complain it doesn't support TCP/IP.

My go to configuration is IKEA Trådfri + Home Assistant.

>>atoav+iD
My only remaining smart device is an off brand smart bulb on my front porch. It is set up to turn on at 6PM and off at 6AM. It disconnected from my network years ago, but has kept working great nonetheless. I think of it like a Mars probe going about its business. :-)

>>jletie+qw
I have used the Zigbee2mqtt quite well with Hue and a USB dongle: https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/

>>edward+jE
I think this shows the generational gap between the two of us. I didn't even know what a Tom Scott was.

>>jimmyd+DD1
When mine disconnected from the network I discovered it was flashing nonstop red, green, and blue. I'm surprised the neighbors didn't come over and complain

>>imp0ca+xK
i don't know why you'd expect Ikea to not be flimsy and cheap -- that's the point.

>>atoav+iD
Exactly. I violated this rule once when I bought a Nest thermostat because it was elegantly designed (this was pre-Google). Then Nest started forcing random updates that not only bricked the device a couple of times (fortunately not permanently) but also changed the UI so that at random times when I wanted to fiddle with a setting I had to relearn how to work the thing.

Finally I got smart and changed my wifi password so the thermostat couldn't talk to the Internet any more, at which point I had a very elegant, unconnected thermostat that eventually became unreliable because it couldn't draw enough current from my two-wire system to keep itself reliably charged up. I tossed it in the recycle bin and bought a $25 dumb thermostat to replace it and I couldn't be happier.

Some general notes to the idiots in C-suites at every company making home automation devices:

1. I don't work for you.

2. You have competitors.

3. You do not get to make demands on my time to re-learn your UI, download software updates, advertise things to me, or sign new EULAs whenever you so desire. I have a life and it doesn't revolve around your company.

4. You do not get to spy on me with your device and sell information about my personal habits.

5. You do not get to use your cloud connectivity to force me into a recurring payment plan just to continue to use your device.

6. If you disagree with any of the above, I would ask that you carefully reread (1) and (2). Misbehavior on your part will result in your product being thrown in the trash, no further purchases from me, and my social network being immediately warned to avoid your company like the plague.

>>kstrau+(OP)
Honestly I found the post and her attitude kinda annoying.

She dismisses Home Assistant for silly reasons, but then fully acknowledges that the IKEA thing doesn't actually work properly with the Hue kit, and worries that IKEA is going to pull some garbage in the future anyway.

It's a shame that solutions like openHAB and Home Assistant aren't dead-simple for the average person to set up, and they have a bunch of usability issues. But if you're the kind of person who is sick of companies enshittifying the things you've already bought and were happy with, you have to actually own the experience, and openHAB or HA is the only way to do that.

I've been running openHAB for 3+ years now, and while it hasn't been perfect, it does what I want and need, and I never worry about some company updating things and breaking my experience. I update when I want to, and can roll it back it the update causes problems.

>>s__s+6z
Tapping the "learn more" feels like such an adult thing to do rather than just bitching about it online without reading any of the details first.

>>kstrau+(OP)
I hadn’t heard of Nanoleaf, so I checked out their site. Immediately a GDPR notice filled my screen, which is no surprise, but they make it pretty hard to opt out. Most importantly, though, it states that they share _identifiable_ data with TikTok. I think I’ll be avoiding that brand.

> We use TikTok Ads to promote our products and services in various countries.TikTok shares information with advertisers and third-party measurement companies to show how many and which users of the Platform have viewed or clicked on an advertisement. If you use the TikTok Lite version of TikTok, information is shared with advertising networks to display personalized advertisements to you on the TikTok Lite app and elsewhere online. TikTok stores and processes data in accordance with their privacy policy.

> Data is Anonymised: No > Data Storage Locations: United States and Canada > Data Usage Purposes: Marketing

>>red-ir+wh2
Well, my entire apartment is mostly IKEA stuff.

..

And, thinking about it now, sadly you're probably right! Especially their newer stuff.