zlacker

[parent] [thread] 29 comments
1. ziml77+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-03-18 14:06:34
I'm surprised that Github stars are valuable enough to buy. Personally I never look at the star count because even if they were legit, they don't really tell me anything more useful than I get from looking at other things in the repo.

I tend to check the age difference between the earliest and latest commits because that lets me be sure it's not a project that someone spent a couple weeks coding up, dropped on github, and then forgot about. I'll also check the issues on there. I'm looking for more closed issues than open ones, but I'll also quickly scan over them to get a rough idea of how many are truly meaningful issues. I also get signals from the readme and docs. It's not a hard pass if there's issues with those, but it's certainly helpful to my opinion if they exist and are both clear and detailed.

replies(10): >>loeg+Zb >>cdiama+pc >>versio+6f >>Takenn+ff >>A4ET8a+Af >>Chancy+Sf >>renewi+Do >>varunj+2w >>_xivi+Uy >>TylerL+KB3
2. loeg+Zb[view] [source] 2023-03-18 15:40:53
>>ziml77+(OP)
I mean based on the number of repos they identified buying stars and prices advertised, the revenue just doesn’t make sense. The sellers have made like, hundreds of dollars at most. How much effort have they invested for this meager return?
3. cdiama+pc[view] [source] 2023-03-18 15:43:24
>>ziml77+(OP)
I find stars helpful when I'm evaluating several different repos to choose a particular tool for a job.

If one of the repos has many more stars, I weigh that strongly when choosing. Freshness of commits is definitely important, but for me the fact that many other people starred the repo shows that there are eyeballs and activity.

4. versio+6f[view] [source] 2023-03-18 16:01:50
>>ziml77+(OP)
I'll admit I've used them. In particular, I've used paperswithcode to find implementations of ML models. There are often a number of implementations of the same model, and the quality is highly variable. I've used stars (which paperswithcode displays) as a pre-screen. Spoiler alert, the highest started implementations are not always the best. But it still helps to triage, as a proxy for how well used it is
5. Takenn+ff[view] [source] 2023-03-18 16:02:27
>>ziml77+(OP)
You are likely not important enough to scam. The first people I can imagine this being shown to are VCs in pitch decks who are only going to see this on a powerpoint and not actually on github. Very unlikely the VC will check github itself to verify the number, and if they do, even less likely they'll verify that the stars are real.

You're the kind that checks everything. Even if you had something valuable, a scammer wouldn't waste their time with you then there are easier fish to bait.

6. A4ET8a+Af[view] [source] 2023-03-18 16:05:30
>>ziml77+(OP)
Interesting, I just use them to keep track of interesting projects ( edit: not the number of starts as a proxy; stars is basically my bookmark ). People treat them as internet points?
7. Chancy+Sf[view] [source] 2023-03-18 16:07:20
>>ziml77+(OP)
> dropped on github, and then forgot about.

I really wish GitHub would have some sort of flag for "stale" projects. I use your methods too (issues, dates, etc.), and I'm usually disappointed when search results bring up ghost projects. However, in a few instances, I found a project that was similar to an issue I was working on that went one step beyond where I was, and even though it was a ghost project, it helped. But in general, these projects don't help. I'm also disappointed that I'm thinking, "Hmmm, maybe LLMs can help..."

replies(2): >>dylan6+ni >>UncleE+6j
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8. dylan6+ni[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 16:23:21
>>Chancy+Sf
Why is stale a bad thing? It could be something that was created to serve a purpose, developed to the point that it was feature complete for that purpose, and now requires no more development yet continues to do its purpose without modifications.

It's almost like you are thinking of it as an expiration date and the software has spoiled.

replies(5): >>nine_k+im >>dasil0+3s >>javajo+Fs >>datade+OT >>Cthulh+w41
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9. UncleE+6j[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 16:27:54
>>Chancy+Sf
I have one project on GitHub that I use all the time as part of a script and only push changes when the python API breaks it. It is essentially “finished” and usually just needs a quick compile against the new python version whenever I upgrade the distro. I haven’t even had to touch for at least as long as GitHub required ssh keys so by all accounts this would be an abandoned project.

Now that I think about it — it is a python wrapper around a boost library and neither of those have made backwards incompatible changes in a long time which is quite suspicious.

replies(1): >>j1elo+ZU
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10. nine_k+im[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 16:43:38
>>dylan6+ni
"Stale" and "done" are different states. Stale is when bugs are known but not fixed, dependencies old and unsupported, build instructions do not work any more on modern versions of OSes and other environments.
replies(1): >>dylan6+UM
11. renewi+Do[view] [source] 2023-03-18 16:55:32
>>ziml77+(OP)
Displaying stars to represent traction in open source was a pitch deck phenomenon that was highly effective fitting the ZIRP.
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12. dasil0+3s[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 17:14:06
>>dylan6+ni
All software is subject to shifting environments over time that will eventually render it obsolete. How fast this happens really depends on the ecosystem—it's a function of the abstraction level and context in which it runs. C or Go code that compiles to a standalone binary will be less susceptible to this, higher level Ruby or Node code that depends on a lot of peer libraries moving in lockstep will be more susceptible. Newer languages that have some notion of backwards compatibility baked into their charter like Elixir or Rust are somewhere in between.
replies(1): >>dylan6+QM
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13. javajo+Fs[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 17:17:10
>>dylan6+ni
Stale is bad. Asymptotically approaching stale is great.
14. varunj+2w[view] [source] 2023-03-18 17:34:20
>>ziml77+(OP)
Metrics based on issues / commit activity are certainly higher fidelity.

As you indicate though, they require more effort to adjudicate. Are issues from core team members? Are commits meaningful? Is community activity meaningful? I wish GitHub would give allow us to parse things like this more easily.

My use of star count is generally a binary indicator. 1k+ is probably a legit project and below is probably still early. Beyond that, it's probably too noisy.

15. _xivi+Uy[view] [source] 2023-03-18 17:49:47
>>ziml77+(OP)
Closed issues dont mean anything though... a lot of maintainers bulk close hundered of issues as "nofix", "no activity after 3 months", and so on. Just sweeping them under the rug. And many of them pride themselves with the 0 opened issues like it mean something. Any software in the world can have 0 issues if they played this game.

So unless you are really well versed in the project and spent some time following it, stars actually might be a better indicator of the project quality and reputation.

replies(1): >>bakugo+2H
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16. bakugo+2H[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 18:43:44
>>_xivi+Uy
> a lot of maintainers bulk close hundered of issues as "nofix", "no activity after 3 months", and so on

God, I hate this. Every time I have an issue with something, look it up on the issue tracker and find the exact issue I'm having autoclosed as "stale" by a fucking bot because the author didn't reply "this is still an issue" once every 24 hours, it instantly makes my blood boil and I avoid using the software in question as much as possible in the future. Nothing screams "I care more about github numbers than my users or the quality of my software" more than this.

replies(1): >>teh_kl+fQ1
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17. dylan6+QM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 19:27:02
>>dasil0+3s
well, the original dev did release the code as open source. you are free to take their lead and continue on with modifications in your own source or even as a fork if you feel so strongly about it needing to be maintained to that level.
replies(1): >>clone1+lN1
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18. dylan6+UM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 19:27:21
>>nine_k+im
i think you're leaving out the state of "good enough"
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19. datade+OT[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 20:16:29
>>dylan6+ni
Because many languages have breaking changes in the interpreter. For example it is almost impossible to review old Python projects you have to change so much, it is easier to rewrite in many cases.

Rust and other compiled languages that have backward and forward compatibility in mind do much better.

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20. j1elo+ZU[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 20:24:12
>>UncleE+6j
Boost libs circa Ubuntu (14 or 16.04) had JSON parser that allowed comments, while the newer Boost in Ubuntu 20.04 (and I think already in 18.04) had "updated" it and then it didn't allow comments any more.

Just a small anecdote of Boost changing behavior that broke some of my stuff.

replies(1): >>UncleE+bY1
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21. Cthulh+w41[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-18 21:39:50
>>dylan6+ni
But in that case it should have a note saying it's finished or in maintenance mode (e.g. https://github.com/sirupsen/logrus); include references to replacements, offer paid support if you really need it or still use it, keep an eye on issues, and update dependencies.

Else, ask for a new maintainer. While code can be considered done (especially if no new features are added), it should never go unmaintained. If it's actually used a lot of course.

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22. clone1+lN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 04:48:25
>>dylan6+QM
Yes, I certainly could. This comment chain started with "why is stale a bad thing". It's bad because I have to do that.

There might be a maintained fork/separate project that does what I want that I would like to find instead. Or maybe I was just searching to save myself 30 minutes on a one time task and I'm not up for adopting an abandoned project.

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23. teh_kl+fQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 05:29:58
>>bakugo+2H
Are you paying the maintainer to use their software? If not then you don't really have right to make such demands on them.
replies(3): >>omaran+Ng3 >>bakugo+Xx3 >>accoun+pw5
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24. UncleE+bY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 07:25:56
>>j1elo+ZU
I kind of expect that I’ll have to do some work at upgrade time but it’s been a while. Usually python is the culprit and can only remember boost breaking something once but that was a different project. The maintainer was quite nice on trying to help me figure it out but I don’t think I ever got it working the same again.
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25. omaran+Ng3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 18:09:37
>>teh_kl+fQ1
I don't think GP said anything about making demands. They said they avoid using that piece of software and that is not a demand on the software's author.
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26. bakugo+Xx3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 19:53:57
>>teh_kl+fQ1
If you read my comment carefully you'll notice that I at no point demanded that the developers actually fix the issue.

The problem here is simply closing issues that are not fixed because they're "stale", no reason to do this unless you're obsessed with keeping the number of open issues low to deceive people into believing no issues exist. Keeping issues open does not take any effort.

replies(1): >>teh_kl+SX3
27. TylerL+KB3[view] [source] 2023-03-19 20:18:08
>>ziml77+(OP)
>I tend to check the age difference between the earliest and latest commits because that lets me be sure it's not a project that someone spent a couple weeks coding up

I doubt anyone would do this, but commit date can be arbitrarily changed.

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28. teh_kl+SX3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-19 22:43:34
>>bakugo+Xx3
Go back and read your comment carefully, it's literally a rant about the maintainer.
replies(1): >>bakugo+Cj4
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29. bakugo+Cj4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-20 01:01:49
>>teh_kl+SX3
Yes, it is. What point are you trying to make here? Being a maintainer of open source software does not elevate you above criticism.
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30. accoun+pw5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-03-20 12:20:57
>>teh_kl+fQ1
I can be upset with people lying to me even if I don't pay them and there is nothing wrong with avoiding projects engaging in such behavior and warning others about them.
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