zlacker

I (and many others I suspect) like web apps exactly because they cannot do what native apps can. If a web app was allowed to do what a native app why would I use a web app? It would just bring the bad sides of native apps to web apps.

>>msh+(OP)
1. Interoperable between all operating systems (mobile and desktop) 2. Does not lock you into proprietary ecosystems 3. Is built on free and open technology, and investing in that technology helps make it available to others 4. Is not subject to the whims, taxes and control of the gatekeepers

Web Apps can be every bit as capable as Native Apps except with security and privacy built in. For consumers, businesses and competition, Native Apps need to be relegated to to apps that require cutting edge use cases

>>mtomwe+i2
1. Web Apps are not interoperable across browsers. It's largely a Chrome world.

2. You (as a user) lack autonomy or control over them.

3. While built on "free and open technology", they are not by design.

4. Is totally subject to the whems, taxes, and control of the gatekeeper (the app developer)

Web applications have demonstratively made the experience worse for users without them knowing it. And web app developers know this intrinsically and refuse to acknowledge it.

>>Conan_+F3
1. Not in my experience. I use Firefox and with very few execptions, everything works the way I expect it to.

2. Not any more than native apps.

3. I guess.. Not sure that matters though..

4. Not any more than native apps. But what mtomweb refers to is obviously the app stores which act as gate keepers, which web apps are not subject to.

>Web applications have demonstratively made the experience worse for users without them knowing it. And web app developers know this intrinsically and refuse to acknowledge it.

What? Not in my opinion, they haven't.

>>Conan_+F3
1. They largely are, the effort to build so they run in Firefox is small and if Safari is forced to compete and then fixes the bugs + adds critical functionality then they will be interoperable on iOS as well

2. You have far more control over Web Apps than Native Apps. The permissions are more granular + via your user agent (browser) you can change privacy and security settings and install extensions to change the behaviour further.

This is not available on native.

3. We're not advocating for "free" apps (App Developers need to make a living too), We're advocating for free and open web tech.

4. Having hundreds of thousands of competing App Developers is not an issue, having 2/3 gatekeepers controlling and extracting rents is.

5. Web Applications only have to be written once, which will result in BETTER products. There's a reason Adobe, Microsoft and many other companies are all investing in Web Apps.

>>mtomwe+i2
I would say that a web app is worse than a stand alone native app from a open perspective.

Unless the app is open source why would it matter to me if it is build on free and open technology?

I would say per definition a webapp is less free than a native app as its under the control of the server operator and not running locally. I know iOS have somewhat webified apps to let them control if people can run them but the old idea of the native app would be entirely under the control of the user, even if its closed source.

I also dont think a web app can do privacy as well as a native app. A native app you can firewalled off from network access while with a web app you are at the mercy of the developer and server operator.

>>mtomwe+v6
> Web Applications only have to be written once, which will result in BETTER products. There's a reason Adobe, Microsoft and many other companies are all investing in Web Apps.

No, its so they can better get money out of the end users. A user cant keep using their 5 year old copy of XYZ, they have to pay every month or they will be cut off from the application.

>>msh+M7
With a web app there is a direct relationship between the site owner (let's say HN) and me. There is no Apple middleman in between, making rules about what the service can do or can't do, taking a cut of the profits, shutting down the service at their whim, deciding which updates are good and which are not. Same for Google on Android.

>>pmontr+1j
I think it's bold of you to assume that in a world where Apple decides to have 1st class support PWA's that it won't also come with the same restrictions as native apps.

They'll make you submit your PWA for app store review, sign your asset and JS bundles so all other's won't load, make you support "Web IAP", and go through review again every time you want to update your bundle.

Hitching your "I want to be be free of Apple's platform control" to "I want PWA's" is a recipe for disappointment.