To live peacefully in a society you have to compromise and you can’t just do as you please. Communities have certain standards and by-laws that should be respected. If you’re compelled then bring it up at the next town meeting and rally support for your cause.
What if someone decides they should park their car on the front lawn since the boat and camper take up the driveway? Or just set a couch up on the front lawn because I like to have a nap there?
That’s a very restrictive view of what a good neighbour should be. Those who are offended by the view of drying clothes and insist on dictating other people’s lifestyle are much worse neighbours than she is.
> To live peacefully in a society you have to compromise and you can’t just do as you please.
Exactly. Like accepting that some people hang their clothes to dry. That’s a step towards keeping a peaceful neighbourhood.
> What if someone decides they shiujd park their car on the front lawn since the boat and camper take up the driveway? Or just set a clinch up on the front lawn because I like to have a nap there?
Who the fuck cares? Whom would this hurt?
We don't know if she has a backyard, so it may be just... the yard.
> What if someone decides they shiujd park their car on the front lawn since the boat and camper take up the driveway?
I don't understand. What then? Why shouldn't they?
I'm not sure what a clinch is or why it's not welcome on the front lawn...
People can survive without a couch on their lawn, and there are alternatives to couches on lawns that don't require the use of a particular technology. But people need dry clothes, and the only alternative to air drying is to use a particular kind of machine. It's some Black Mirror shit.
“Clinch” was a typo; corrected to “couch”.
Can your neighbors also prevent you from putting your children sculpture or garden gnome in your garden because it's not up to their grand standards?
As to who it “would hurt” - it could very well hurt everyone’s property values and certainly hurts everyone’s eyes to have to see a car parked on the front lawn. Again, it’s antisocial behavior and inconsiderate of the vast majority of people in the area. It’s selfish.
What if they put a lawn chair on the front lawn, and sat out to read or play on their tablet or whatever, and fell asleep? Is that so bad? Or are lawn chairs somehow better than couches, and that's what makes it OK? (Are they more expensive? Better upholstered? Comfier? If yes to any of the above - where do you buy your lawn chairs?)
If I was going to park my truck | caravan | boat out the front I'd rather have a well drained raked gravel pan than a lawn growing up through the vehicle, weeds, and dead grass when I drive awy.
Aesthetics are a thing after all.
It's revealing what's considered anti-social (hang drying your clothes) and what's considered normal (driving massive, pedestrian-flattening pickups).
Indeed. And that is oppressive.
> Otherwise she’s just doing as she pleases and that’s antisocial behavior.
Doing as we please as long as it does not hurt others is the definition of freedom and liberty.
> As to who it “would hurt” - it could very well hurt everyone’s property values and certainly hurts everyone’s eyes to have to see a car parked on the front lawn.
That is entirely unreasonable, besides the fact that it is completely stupid that drying clothes can decrease property prices. It is not more dirty than anything else you can put on your lawn, and it is not a sign that the house is poorly maintained or anything.
Also, if that is your standard, why are political posters and flags acceptable? In which way does a drying shirt “hurt your eyes” (really?) more than a MAGA banner? Does your argument apply to what people wear as well, or is there anything magical about lawns?
> Again, it’s antisocial behavior and inconsiderate of the vast majority of people in the area. It’s selfish.
Not at all, this should not be any more controversial than the clothes we wear. The selfish ones are those who impose a way of life on others for no good reason.
I'm guessing my garden might be considered substandard in many suburban settings.
I'm mostly pretty sympathetic with people doing whatever is "reasonable" with their properties including drying clothes on a line. But there's clearly some point in a suburban neighborhood where broken down cars and decaying furniture will among other things depress nearby property values which is an understandable issue for the owners.
Neighborhood are often managed by a Home Owners Association (HOA). So, not codified laws, just a contract/rules you sign when you buy/rent in that area.
Outside an HOA (typically older or rural homes), you can often do what you want.
Inside an HOA (most suburban development since the 70s), you get rules that span from reasonable to crazy, but as a resident you know the rules up front.
Towns can have some of these rules too, but the detailed “don’t do X” that make the news are almost always HOA things.
In the primary example in the article, it sounds like there isn’t a rule, just neighbors complaining. The women correctly told them to piss off.
If it's so important, just make an official law. Don't allow police or towns official to enforce whatever rule they made up. Is your hair too short/long for your gender prototype? Is the music band in your t-shirt not welcome here? Is your hallowing decoration not 100% lore compliant?
It's not something that should be foisted on people after they own their property, since "you're free to move your whole life and family somewhere that allows parking on the lawn (or hanging laundry, etc) if you don't like my new rule" is rarely practical or reasonable.
The contractor doesn't know this, so plants to the center of the gate. Which is 3 or 4 rows of corn on my field.
Property lines are problematic everywhere.
Wait, isn't America meant to be land of the free? Is it their front lawn, or is it not? I live in a much less "free" country according to any American, and yet neither thing would be a problem. It's your front lawn, want to a park a car there? That's your call.
What an incredibly weird argument that is.
Yes, yes please. Is it their front lawn? As in - they own the land? And they aren't causing any harm or damage to anyone, other than the fact that you don't like it? You mentioned "property value loss" in another comment - that's not a thing. Certainly not due to a car parked on someone's lawn.
Again, I find your intention to get into other people's business just.....strange.
But the bigger point is if the community has a standard or by-law that she is just ignoring. Just doing what you want is no way to live in a society as is reflective of the selfish turn we've taken. It's inconsiderate of you neighbors and part of living socially is that a part of "who we are - our true selfs" has to be sacrificed to make ourselves bearable to others. We can't just expect everyone to accept "our truth" or whatever. Otherwise, you're antisocial.
Putting indoor furniture outdoors is inappropriate as it isn't made for outdoor use. It will grow mold and rot and fall apart and it will become a nest for rodents and attract insect colonies that can spread everywhere. It will smell bad and reflects poorly on those that live nearby. I wouldn't buy a home in an area where I saw something like that. If you were to poll my neighborhood (granted the average home is over $1,000,000) I guarantee everyone would agree. Even where I grew up which was very blue color, you wouldn't see anything like this and you could be certain a neighbor would have a talk with you if you tried.
We don't live like that.
It's not me. It's a community which agreed on a guideline, standard, by-law, etc.
> You mentioned "property value loss" in another comment - that's not a thing.
No, it actually is. Demand will suffer in locations which are unkept and trashy. I would not buy a property next to a home that had cars parked on the front lawn. I would not want to live next to someone who thinks that's appropriate and most people would agree with me.
There's a reason we stage homes when selling - we want them to be as attractive as possible. The surrounding area, if nice, will add to the value because people want to live in nice places and around nice people.
That's great. I'm grateful we live in a country where people that are compelled to always put themselves first and not have to consider other people can remove themselves from society and choose to live an isolated life away from society. I'm even more grateful for the people that recognize this about themselves and make the move.
Living socially involves sacrifices and considering those around you. They do the same and we live harmoniously together. There's some people that can't or won't do this and if they try and live socially they end up frustrated as they are rejected by their community. In some cases it results in violence and in others just miserable people that can't seem to get along with anyone and they have a constant chip on their shoulder. Removing themselves from society and going to the country is the best route here.
You have to truly be in the absolutely middle of nowhere with an amazingly huge amount of land to actually be able to "do what you want" in a reasonable manner without someone telling you no.
And I'm talking about stuff that couldn't be seen from off your property line. So many county regulations and such these days - some places 100+ miles from the nearest international airport had county building restrictions nearly as bad as the suburban development I lived in.
It's been a very eye opening and incredibly sad process for me. Land of the free indeed. It seems there is increasingly nowhere left to run away from petty authoritarians.
They should be able to bath themselves in the front yard by pouring water from they collected from a nearby creek over themselves because showers are slavery.
It's ok for people to tan animal hides in their front yard because the clothing store requires transportation which is just slavery.
I'm going to have torches inside and out because light bulbs enslave me.
I'm thinking about joining an Amish community because the machines I own have ended up owning me.
And yes, forcing other people to do or not-do what you want, by force of law and without regard for their own agency, is incompatible with freedom.
I never said it's approporiate. I wouldn't want to live next to such house either. But I find it unacceptable that you would like to regulate that away, just like I don't think it's acceptable to regulate whether someone can hang their laundry outside or not. It's a uniquely American fetishism with defining freedom as "freedom to tell others what they can or cannot do". There's a reason HOAs exist pretty much only there and hardly anywhere else. I might find the sight of my neighbour's car unappealing - but you're the one who wants to regulate what they can or cannot do with it.
Hmmm, I think there's a thing called "reason" here, as in being "reasonable".
no, we live in communities of people. We are not atomic units but rather a part of a community and the community decides what's OK and what isn't. If you can't abide by it then you need to find another community that agrees with you or move to a rural area where you can isolate yourself. In fact, I hope there is a community with no zoning or restrictions on what you can do on your property so people like you feel like you have a place. Maybe it becomes so successful everyone wants to transition to that.
Or maybe we've come up with these rules for good reason. Ever consider that?
You get it! And for me and most other people who live in cities or towns, parking a vehicle on your front lawn or other area not designed for and built for parking a vehicle (most people call them "driveways") is crossing that line.
Who said hanging your clothing is antisocial? No, hanging your clothing in defiance of a community by-law or guideline is antisocial by virtue of most your neighbors finding it that way.
You don't get to decide if you're antisocial or not. Society does.
Since this is a story about the U.S., I ask that you try to view it through the appropriate cultural lens, rather than imposing your own.
In my county there are inspectors for water and septic. That's all. So that had to be to code.
Everything else is up to the landowner.
For instance, I contribute to the local volunteer fire department. The annual festival. The fireworks on the 4th.
I pull my neighbors out of the ditch when their car slides on snow in the winter. Hell, I snowplow my stretch of gravel with my tractor if the county isn't going to get to it for a couple days and my neighbors need to get to work.
Interactions are generally more cooperative, maybe even healthier, without the always-being-in-one-another's-face.
For instance, we don't allow "trash and debris" and plant life can't be "overgrown" and your property must be kept clean and free of garbage". Things can't be "unsightly" or in disrepair. There's a bunch of ordinances that apply to these things.
If you disagree with it you can:
1) Plea to the council and/or campaign to elect someone who will change the ordinances
2) Move
Nothing on paint colour, lawns (required or not | having vehicles on them | etc), licenced vehicle disposition etc.
Most people are house proud, a number of people have very different aesthetic fromn others, some places are clearly butt ugly but that's largely their business.
Town only steps in if something is a rat infested hoarders paradise that might catch alight and belch toxic fumes at an second.
The super intrusive home owners association is largely not a problem here (but it's creeping in to the chagrin of many).
I'm still mystified by your dislike for parking vehicles on lawns, it's not great for the lawn but having neighbours that do this overnight every few days (so they can get spare car from the back, etc) I really cannot see the issue - their lawn is fine and I don't get a queasy feeling looking at it.