But it’s increasingly clear that a small premium phone is not on the roadmap. So I’ve decided to take matters into my own hands. My goal with https://smallandroidphone.com is to rally other fans of small phones together and put pressure on Google/Samsung/Anyone to consider making a small phone.
I have a very specific set of skills and industry connections that I have acquired over a long career in the hardware business (my first startup was Pebble). I will put them to use in our shared quest to get the perfect small Android phone. If no one else builds one, and enough people sign up...maybe I will be forced to make it myself.
If you want a small premium Android phone, this may be your last chance (ever?) to help bring back the phone category that we love.
There's also the Cyrcle Phone (https://www.cyrclephone.com/) which doesn't seem to be for sale anymore after its Kickstarter and Indie Go Go campaigns.
So, by all accounts, the iPhone mini has been an extremely slow seller.
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula...
Why would that form factor succeed in the Android space?
---
I see these meme on tech sites all the time: “oh phones are too big I just want something simple”. That is a valid sentiment that I think is shared by basically no average consumer. For a lot of people, phones are their primary computing devices, so a big screen is nice there. Bigger phones allow for more battery capacity. Aging populations like them because you can use screen zoom features to really blow up that text size without making the effective viewport too small.
And…people just like big stuff. I know that’s simplistic and a little condescending, but then look at SUV and truck sales.
It's a 2.5 inch 3G Android phone. http://www.cwell-hk.com/products/SOYES_XS11.aspx
Lots of small Android phones are in the recommended section on cwell-hk in the $40 range.
* https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l...
It's not a "flagship" but it is fully featured - nothing spared - and half the size of my palm. The screen is just small enough to be too annoying to do anything really distracting on. I have gotten NOTHING but compliments on it since I started using it a month ago (on a reco I picked up here).
How does it compare to the palm phone PVG100, usually available for 1/3 of the price? (new but in OEM box)
It seems much thicker.
Also, which network are you using?
https://www.unihertz.com/blogs/news/about-at-t-usage-in-the-...
> Recently, AT&T released a whitelist of smartphone brands that will continue to work on their network after February 2022. Unfortunately, Unihertz products are not among them.
I hope someone sues AT&T for its discriminative policy.
Well, it's up against the iPhone SE, which has the same size, same weight and the same processor. [1]
[1] https://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone13m...
Good luck with your switch.
The battery is the main issue, about 2h of use or 1 day if in power saving mode with every optimization applied.
It's still good enough as a travel phone, turned on only when I need to call.
0: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-exec-says-this-is-why-it-s...
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-12-mini,...
I had the previous SE from years back and it's still my preferred size, the current mini is significantly bigger than it.
As an aside, I had to switch to the 12 mini as the old SE started becoming unusable due to its age. I did switch to a Pixel 4a temporarily but that was too big for what I wanted and traded it in as soon as I could.
For one - most of the iPhone Mini sale is because of 'Halo effect', die hard fans who anyway would have bought an iPhone, bought the mini version. An Android phone maker will not have that brand pull or halo effect to establish a new category, so it would be no where near that 10M number.
Second, iPhone or Mac devices are known for hardware and software integration. That translates among other things to good battery life (similar to RAM. Apple never talks about RAM).
iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department [1], one of the factor in its low sale as compared to bigger device. A Mini Android device will have mini batteries, that means it will have no chance in h* to last through the day - the minimum requirement in this day and age.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-iph....
1: https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/technology/2022/01/...
LineageOS supported https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sake/
https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...
You can filter by specs to see how close you can get to your dream phone. There are quite a few available on the market that match the 5.5" screen size of the iPhone 13 Mini. Even by the big manufacturers like Samsung and Google. Like the Pixel 3. Which was introduced 4 years ago though.
In general, phones have been becoming larger and larger over the years. So this chart has been becoming more and more sparse over time.
But recently, the voices demanding small phones seem to become louder and more frequent.
I am curious to see if it will reverse the trend.
At some point, I will probably make a graph that shows the change in average screensize over time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation)
Edit: ah found another source as well about it being on the LTE model https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655
https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/je...
Wow, angry much? I suggest contacting your local mental health crisis hotline before you turn your internet rage into something people actually care about. In the United States, just dial 988.
Failing that, try getting a sense of humor. They're nice.
> The judge in that case drew a bright line: Under the Fifth Amendment, police could not force the suspect to communicate his passcode, but they could force him to use his fingerprint to unlock the device. The reason?
> Providing a fingerprint was “non-testimonial,” because it did not require the suspect to produce anything from his own mind. On the other hand, to give up your personal passcode is classically testimonial, since it comes from your head.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-te...
https://palm.com/pages/product
Regretfully, it filled with a lot of carrier spyware (originally Verizon) that eats the battery in the background. If cleaned up, the battery life gets much better (up to two days). But, after a month or so, for me the phone for some reason factory-reset itself. Not sure, if it was an update or initiated by the carrier or a hardware glitch or something else.
Nice, clean looking, unlocked, very inexpensive hardware (<$100 refurbished), but very poor android build.
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-sch-w2013-jackie-ch...
And in 2018, One Plus had a $3,000 phone:
https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/this-3000-oneplus-6-is-the-...
[0] https://www.androidauthority.com/pop-up-camera-phones-slider...
Comparing with my Samsung A40 (5.9" diagonally), the latter is much smaller, and also lighter: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9320&idPhone2...
Edit: Both smartphones have the same display aspect ratio, but the XR seems to have thicker edges. The screen-to-body-ratio is only 79%, compared to 85.5% on the A40. So it must be wider and higher.
The Homer was a car that Home Simpson built to exactly what they wanted without any tradeoffs for off the shelf components, trends, or sensibility of what currently was common.
It's also somewhat design by committee, with features like a more luxurious bubble for the adults, and a micro-bubble for the kids; presumably so you can ignore anything but the screams or silence.
I also suspect this fictional car might have been an ingredient in the market shifting from minivans to SUVs. Those don't have such great audio isolation but were even taller than the minivans (which were taller than station wagons). Or it could be the 'backup camera' finally reaching a tolerable price level.
And, yeah, it probably does compromise the waterproofing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaphor
Now, whether an iPhone Mini fits into that metaphor can be debated, but it's just a metaphor, after all. :-)
The simpsons also did the canyonero:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/up-against-flashy-flagships-iphon...
Or, if they really wanted the phone unlocked, they could just follow the suspect and tackle him while he is using it.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/uk-police-unlock...
I had the first Pebble and have fond memories. I have high hopes for this!!!! I also love hardware but I never made it stick for work. I was one of the first engineers at Mesur.io, but things didn't work out.
My other thought would be to make this highly configurable; there is a large cohort of HN crowd who also want an un-Googled Android phone, myself included. There are no un-Googled small android phones, however with Project Treble many of them can run GSIs such as this most popular one https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/releases . Of course Lineage OS deserves a mention, maybe you could ship with that, build on what the community already offers.
The Unihertz line of phones deserves mention, but also scorn; they do NOT support their old hardware at all. The Jelly had 1 update to Android 8.1 and was left for dead. Additionally the system updater software included in the stock ROM was spyware. So unfortunately they were written off in my book.
Finally, I would like to see band 71 LTE availability for T-Mobile in the US. It really makes a big difference in the sticks. Unihertz does not support that, and for that reason I am sticking with my iPhone SE 2016 for the moment (until I find a small Android phone....)
Can't wait to hear more!
The "RED Hydrogen One," by that fancy camera company is closer I think. At least it had some story that could hypothetically have ended with a compelling technological reason for it to exist (RED is supposed to know cameras). Although, it didn't seem to work out either, but with a sample size of 1 it could be a fluke of poor execution.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/red-quits-the-smartp...
I'm surprised none of the really consumer-oriented camera companies have broken into smartphones. Camera stuff seems like more of a selling point for smartphones, than phone stuff. But, it seems like they never really want to dive in fully.
Palm released a tiny Android phone in 2018, but the performance was crap so it didn't sell. Smaller phone means smaller battery and fewer cutting edge components, unless you fab everything yourself, making it more expensive. The tradeoffs don't work unless you're the richest company in the world.
https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/unihertz-atom-xl-rugged-sm...
I used to have a Sony Xperia X Compact and when its SIM slot stopped working, I went looking for a new phone and there was nothing of that size. I got the Ulefone Armor X7 Pro which was basically the same phone with a worse camera, less shovelware, and built to last. Still fits in my pocket, more or less.
People have somehow managed to forget this, but phones have been waterproof since ... basically forever without forgoing a headphone jack. I could link probably half the phones made between 2012-2017, but this phone is actually linked by the site itself: https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/16/9549247/sony-xperia-z5-r...
Honestly, I'm not sure what the issue is supposed to be here. I've literally never, in 12 years of owning a smartphone, dropped it in water. I have no clue how that's even supposed to happen short of it falling into a river.
Since this is a small phone, I suspect most people will probably not be using a case that adds significantly to the size. Just a guess on my part though. I can live with a camera bump if I have to, I just think a lot of us miss the candy bar designs of ~2014-2015.
...so, a current flagship? Samsung's Galaxy S22 is smaller than both the Moto X4 and Nexus 5X.
Size comparison: https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Google-Nexus-5X,Motor...
In general, phone sizes have stayed roughly constant since the Nexus 5X, though the displays are getting bigger as the bezels get smaller.
There's this little Android smartphone from Shenzhen.[2] $104 in quantity 2, $74 in quantity 1000. You can get it from Amazon for about twice as much.
[1] https://www.thelightphone.com/
[2] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Small-Cellphone-3-0-I...
Moreover, the specification that actually matters for one-handed phone users is the distance between the bottom corner of the phone (where it's held in the hand) and the top opposite corner of the screen, not the top corner of the phone. That's because that point is the furthest you'd ever need to stretch your thumb to use the phone. So actually, the displays getting bigger as the bezels get smaller has been part of the problem.
If you look at the Nexus 5X [1] you'll see that it has an enormous (by modern standards) top bezel. By comparison, a phone like the S22 has basically no bezel at all and will be much harder to use one-handed.
I enjoyed MrMobile's review: https://youtu.be/skIgG8q_lKs
How about getting one of those foldable screens in the larger standard size, and then just... tucking away the excess inside the phone body?
Y'know, like the marketing material for the iPhone X claimed it was doing: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0fd6daf2b9b742bf5dbf10... (though it actually wasn't.)
Have you tried KDE Connect? (Hint: It's not only for KDE desktop users.)
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz2_compact-reviews-908...
"U must open the case and Put some sticker behind the lcd.ghost touch happen cause have contact between lcd and battery. Grounding issue"
I'm willing to try it.
If that's true, then app devs are thoroughly incompetent at it. Take a look at at Chrome on Android. The address bar, tab menu, and settings bar are all at the top of the screen. In 2021, Apple made the same change for Safari, moving the address bar from the bottom of the screen to the top [1]. The tab grid Chrome's push for tab grid [2] made it even worse, because depending on the tab, you may need to reach across the entire diagonal the reach the tab you want. Firefox has the option of putting the address bar at the bottom (and if so, the tabs show near the bottom as well), but the navigation buttons for bookmarks are near the top of the screen.
I don't think mobile developers think about one-handed phone use at all. Based on the designs used, with interactions bouncing all around the screen, it doesn't seem to be a concern at all. Perhaps they assume that everybody holds a phone with one hand and then touches the screen with the other hand.
[0] https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2022/02/05-chrome-a...
[1] https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/17/ios-15-beta-6-redesigns-safar...
[2] https://m-cdn.phonearena.com/images/articles/372064-940/Scre...
https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strateg...
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of its mobile phone strategy.
And it last a long time not using any services that make Android what it is to most users (ie using Google service) is not a mass market selling point.
[0] https://palm.com/pages/product [1] https://jacobhenryrussell.medium.com/six-months-with-a-tiny-...
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Palm-PVG100-Premium-Unlocked-Titanium...
https://thenextweb.com/news/bad-news-for-anyone-who-wanted-t...
Addendum: I daresay many of the demographic here at Hacker News likes phones similar to that of /r/Android: headphone jack, notchless rectangular display, SD card slot, notification LED, not-too-crazy design, and there's literally only one company doing all this: Sony.
[0]: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9082&idPhone2...
* “Other manufacturers have managed to make a success of selling high-capacity smartphones. BlackView (and, for that matter, Ulephone, Doogee, and AGM) does especially well. Although they come with ginormous cells, they’re primarily designed to be hardy, and can take more of a beating than Mickey Rourke in the boxing ring.”
* “French smartphone manufacturer Avenir Telecom attempted to crowdfund the P18K on Indiegogo, but ultimately failed in a way that was previously unthinkable for a project that’s attracted so much press coverage and public interest. In total, Avenir Telecom ‘sold’ sixteen (absolute) units.”
* “there are people who would benefit from a phone with a 18,000 mAh battery. I’m talking about military users, people working in the oil and gas industry, famers, and even truckers. Avenir did nothing to cater to this valuable niche.”
* “The P18K, on the other hand, lacked waterproofing and shockproofing, making it thoroughly unsuitable for outdoor users.”
* “Avenir Telecom wanted €600 for a phone with the internals of a €200 phone. Without anything extra – like ruggedization – that’s a hard sell. It just didn’t represent good value for customers.”
* “Measuring several inches thick”
I was exaggerating a little by saying 20000mAh: about 5000 to 10000 would probably be sweet.
Also camera lenses on the P18K were not flush with reverse side - ugggh. There should be a proper shutter button (positioning and half-press to hold focus). Lenses needs protection eg. manual sliding shutter which when opened puts phone into camera mode (I have cracked mobile phone camera lenses).
Plenty of people want a proper waterproof camera (low light, macro, Tele, optical image stabilisation) in their pocket, and why not combine that with hardy mobile phone?
I can imagine making the screen plus battery plus the USB port all as a single user-replaceable part? Those are the usual culprits that get broken or need replacing.
Edit: Slight edits above for clarity. Also see Blackview Pro 11000mAh https://thenextweb.com/news/this-bonkers-chinese-phone-holds...
https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_droid_mini-5603.php
Dang can't believe it's a decade old, I still have a few sitting in a box unused.
Sharp also makes a lot of interesting phones: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/japans-sharp-aquos-r...
Plus, Xperia Compact series is from Sony.
That made me wonder: - Why does it seem like Japanese manufacturers are the only ones making "different" phones? - Many other threads are talking about the lack of components and lack of component manufacturer interest, but if so, how did the Japanese manufacturers did it? - What is special about the Japanese market that allows these phones to survive? - What difficulty would there be for let's say Rakuten to sell their phones internationally just like Sony did?
A few points of relevant observation: - Japanese consumer electronics manufacturers have a habit of keeping their best products only to Japan - such as DSLRs. - There is a strong customer base for mini devices in Japan. GPD pocket laptops are in regular stores.
I was thinking much larger optics and mechanicals, similar to a PowerShot N (except with modern video specs): Optical image stabilization, 8x optical zoom, 1/2.3" Sensor (6.17mm x 4.55 mm), Maximum aperture F3–5.9, Macro focus range 1cm. A real camera: even though I realise in the past there have been plenty of failed camera-phones in the marketplace!
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardown/6...
https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/speci...
SHIFT5me - 141,5 mm x 71 mm x 9 mm
Fairphone, Founded on the principles of ethical consumerism have consistently delivered on their promises which by itself is an extraordinary feat in the world of smartphones (or) consumer electronics in general.
Occasional but common criticisms on their devices from HN include specs not being competitive with flagships and build quality not up to expected levels(But newer devices have got good feedbacks on the build quality).
They are only available in EU + few other countries, If you don't live in their supported countries list then getting their phone might not be advisable as getting the parts easily for repair is their main USP(Besides telecom radio support).
So if you use phone as a utility and not as sustenance then Fairphone is a good choice if you can get it, Besides money goes to a socially-invested business.
https://bestsecuritysearch.com/hackers-can-eavesdrop-victims...
I was dragged kicking and screaming from my iPhone SE 2016 as apps don't work on it anymore and it would shut down when it reached peak performance capacity. I used the Pixel 4A and have switched to the iPhone SE 2022. I get wrist tendon cramp from stretching to type and pinky strain from the weight on both phones.
I also loved the Xperia Compact line as it had pro features such as noise-cancelling wired earphones and NFC. My phone history: iPhone 4, Xperia V, Xperia Z1 Compact, Xperia Z5 Compact, iPhone SE 2016, iPhone 13 Mini, Pixel 4A, iPhone SE 2022.
First of all I said 90% of people here who are interested in a small Android phone, not 90% of everyone here.
Second, I feel you're trying to make me feel like I've gone insane and can't trust my own eyes by pretending that threads about the lack of a headphone jack don't routinely make the front page here [1] [2] [3] and that comments about the lack of a headphone jack don't routinely become the highest voted comments in any thread related to phones.
I don't think your point about iPhone sales holds any water, because you could just as easily show that people buy phones that have headphone jacks. The 12 mini is a smaller phone than the 12, so you could argue that some people who don't care about the size of their phone might be preferentially buying the mini! There's no way to make an airtight argument for either a headphone jack or a small phone as someone arguing on a forum, but I believe there are a lot of people who want both.
Moreover, my argument is that the removal of the jack was not done for any engineering reason, but for profit and aesthetics. Even if you are right that 50% of people would use a headphone jack instead of 90%, that's still a perfectly legitimate reason to include one.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18538881
