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1. tines+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:39:39
Not to detract from the message here, but

> It may just be a game to you but, it means the world to us

The placement of that comma really irks me. Isn't "It may just be a game to you, but it means the world to us" the grammatically correct form? I'm somewhat surprised to see this in official communication from the Canadian Red Cross group.

I feel like I've seen this "post-but" comma more and more recently. I guess people feel like they would speak the sentence with a pause after the conjunction and therefore the comma goes there in writing.

replies(10): >>m1117+x >>nuccy+E >>chomp+S >>ykat7+Y >>wizzwi+51 >>jihadj+U1 >>agbell+z2 >>dmje+74 >>bregma+z6 >>dang+j7
2. m1117+x[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:42:40
>>tines+(OP)
They wanted to put emphasis on the pause?
3. nuccy+E[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:43:20
>>tines+(OP)
It seems they intended to make a pause after "but". For that purpose "..." instead of the comma, would actually fit better.
replies(1): >>Lammy+A1
4. chomp+S[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:44:31
>>tines+(OP)
Correct it does go before the conjunction, and an optional one after if you want to draw a pause.
replies(1): >>SamBam+k8
5. ykat7+Y[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:45:02
>>tines+(OP)
> Isn't "It may just be a game to you, but it means the world to us" the grammatically correct form?

Yep, that's what I would go with. I can't see a use case for a comma after the "but" in British nor American English.

> I guess people feel like they would speak the sentence with a pause after the conjunction

Even this feels off to me when I read up to the "but" and then pause (as opposed to pausing on the "you").

6. wizzwi+51[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:45:48
>>tines+(OP)
It's correct in German, which otherwise has basically the same grammar as English.
replies(5): >>tines+i1 >>eldais+22 >>_jal+92 >>rincew+i5 >>yatac4+A5
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7. tines+i1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:46:21
>>wizzwi+51
That's interesting. Is the pause there in spoken German as well?
replies(1): >>dgb23+w4
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8. Lammy+A1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:47:43
>>nuccy+E
This looks like a job for—Emdash Man!
replies(1): >>dang+D7
9. jihadj+U1[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:48:34
>>tines+(OP)
OT but it reminds me of that part in Borat where he's learning about not-jokes, and he says "This suit is black not," without any pause. Similarly odd sort of rhythm to the first part of the sentence before the comma.
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10. eldais+22[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:49:14
>>wizzwi+51
>which otherwise has basically the same grammar as English

German and English have similar grammar but they are very far from being the same. Particular here with commas. Clauses in German are almost always marked with commas. English uses the comma much more sparingly.

replies(1): >>schoen+O3
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11. _jal+92[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:49:47
>>wizzwi+51
German does not the same grammar as English have.
12. agbell+z2[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:51:50
>>tines+(OP)
It does seem strange. If they wanted that emphasis they could have used a quote.

> "It may just be a game to you but" Red Cross spokesperson tine said "it means the world to us."

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13. schoen+O3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 18:57:09
>>eldais+22
Yes, it's always odd to me to see native German speakers putting a comma before "that" in indirect discourse in English (like "ich glaube, dass dieser Satz richtig ist" -> *"I believe, that this sentence is correct").

In English there's also a difference in comma usage with restrictive and nonrestrictive relative clauses (restrictive relative clauses, which indicate which specific entity is referred to as opposed to others, don't use commas, while nonrestrictive relative clauses, which merely add additional information, do), but I seem to remember that native German speakers will commonly write both with commas.

*The person, who was here yesterday, has come back.

Conversely, it's sometimes hard for me to remember to use that comma in German. I want to write something like *"sie sagt dass man hier kein Komma braucht".

replies(1): >>wizzwi+Xw1
14. dmje+74[view] [source] 2021-07-09 18:58:17
>>tines+(OP)
Came here to say this. Couldn't really see past it, which says more about me than anything else.
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15. dgb23+w4[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:00:33
>>tines+i1
Generally no.
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16. rincew+i5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:04:41
>>wizzwi+51
It would not be correct in German either (source: Native speaker, went to Grammar School).

This is just another instance of North Americans (I haven't really seen this in British English speakers) placing their commata not at the boundaries between clauses/phrases, but where they pause when they read the sentence out loud. You may argue with descriptivism -- that the grammatical rules have changed and this is the new normal -- but placing a comma like this has the probably unintentional effect that reading the sentence out loud now causes you to pause in yet a different place.

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17. yatac4+A5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:06:34
>>wizzwi+51
I can't find any evidence of that being true. In this article[1] for example, all the examples either have the comma before the "aber" or none at all. I can't find any example anywhere where a comma after the "aber" would be correct nor can I think of one myself.

I also wouldn't say that German has "otherwise the same grammar as English". (Or in wrong German: "Ich auch würde nicht sagen dass Deutsch hat ansonsten das gleich Grammatik wie Englisch" - even if we're just talking about comma rules, the German version should have a comma before the "that/dass").

[1]: http://www.neue-rechtschreibung.net/2012/04/30/kommasetzung-...

18. bregma+z6[view] [source] 2021-07-09 19:11:19
>>tines+(OP)
For consistency it should also be "it mean's the world to us". Grind all my gears at once.
19. dang+j7[view] [source] 2021-07-09 19:15:41
>>tines+(OP)
Oh my goodness. I didn't even see that, probably because my brain regards it as impossible - it's the punctuation equivalent of the gorilla walking across the basketball court.

Extreme comma tension now relieved above.

replies(1): >>achero+Td
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20. dang+D7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:17:05
>>Lammy+A1
Probably the most excited I've ever personally made PG was when he saw me make an em dash on my MBP and immediately wanted to know how.
replies(1): >>dwaltr+bc
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21. SamBam+k8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:20:18
>>chomp+S
No, no optional one after. A comma shouldn't ever be used to "draw a pause" in English. It needs to break up logical fragments of a sentence.

If you want to indicate a pause to show how you want it read you can use an ellipses (...).

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22. dwaltr+bc[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:43:53
>>dang+D7
I would also like to know how!
replies(2): >>Lammy+Sf >>junar+9l
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23. achero+Td[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 19:53:44
>>dang+j7
Ha, the same thing happened to me until I saw the comment. The gorilla analogy is just right.
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24. Lammy+Sf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:07:26
>>dwaltr+bc
Compose Key followed by three dashes (two and a period for an en-dash) https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.7/doc/libX11/i18n/compose/e...

Also on Windows using WinCompose http://wincompose.info/

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25. junar+9l[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 20:45:35
>>dwaltr+bc
Well, parent comment mentioned Mac, so the correct answer is Option, Shift, and - (hyphen). There are many other characters that Macs can type with the Option key.
replies(1): >>dwaltr+4t
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26. dwaltr+4t[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-09 21:32:12
>>junar+9l
Thanks! That is great.
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27. wizzwi+Xw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-07-10 12:18:08
>>schoen+O3
Oh, yeah, this is what I was thinking of. The comma is the same side of aber as in English.
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