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1. henghe+(OP)[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:07:47
> Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

I'm not familiar with US legislation, but from my perspective this is just Musk on his soap-box making a statement. It's not something I can rely on while building a business that possibly (!) infringes one of Tesla's patents. They may retract their statement and reconsider at any time, especially when times get tough.

It's nice to hear this, sure, but I fail to see the meat in this announcement.

replies(9): >>gkober+e >>Keyfra+z >>bitJer+B >>sbov+81 >>JoshTr+G1 >>smoyer+02 >>dragon+52 >>gtirlo+h3 >>TWAndr+Nb
2. gkober+e[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:09:28
>>henghe+(OP)
They have to keep the patents (or donate them to a trusted third part, as a bunch of tech companies have done). They unfortunately need the protection. Otherwise, someone could sue them.

I think Musk's word in this case is good. He's not a nobody; his reputation is stellar.

replies(3): >>IBM+l >>tnorth+m1 >>lclark+y1
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3. IBM+l[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:10:23
>>gkober+e
They should license the patents for free to anyone who wants to use them. There's no word needed.
replies(1): >>gtirlo+E3
4. Keyfra+z[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:12:40
>>henghe+(OP)
Since this statement comes from a Chairman and a CEO, wouldn't a breach of this promise be considered as a form of bait and switch? I mean, he publicly advertises a certain promise in a function of a key operative from the company.
replies(1): >>kyrra+j1
5. bitJer+B[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:12:47
>>henghe+(OP)
Would this not be a get out of court free card in any lawsuit Tesla would try to start?
replies(1): >>tnorth+p1
6. sbov+81[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:16:48
>>henghe+(OP)
I agree, but not necessarily because Musk might randomly change his mind. The problem is if Tesla runs out of money they must sell these patents to another company whose CEO might not have the same outlook.

Longer term, the other problem is when Musk retires/dies. Of course, that probably wont affect any current patents, but it could to future ones.

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7. kyrra+j1[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:17:53
>>Keyfra+z
Agreed. But his lawyers would have wiggle room with the "in good faith" part added onto the promise if they needed to go after someone.
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8. tnorth+m1[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:18:26
>>gkober+e
A general business tip: rely on someone's reputation as a signal that you should consider doing business with them, and then rely on their signature on a contract to protect you when you do business with them.
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9. tnorth+p1[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:18:59
>>bitJer+B
I suspect that an ambiguously-worded blog post would not be legally binding.
replies(1): >>bitJer+15
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10. lclark+y1[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:20:16
>>gkober+e
http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Patent_non-aggression_pacts is an option that is a tad more legally binding.
11. JoshTr+G1[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:21:28
>>henghe+(OP)
Hopefully they'll issue a more formal statement, but even if they don't, this is grounds for estoppel.

Beyond that, anyone who wants something signed and in writing could likely drop a note to Tesla for it when doing their due diligence.

replies(1): >>ScottB+73
12. smoyer+02[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:24:44
>>henghe+(OP)
If Musk is smart (and serious about his belief in OSS), he'll keep the patents as a defensive tool and provide $0 perpetual licenses to the patents to anyone who asks.
13. dragon+52[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:24:57
>>henghe+(OP)
> I'm not familiar with US legislation, but from my perspective this is just Musk on his soap-box making a statement. It's not something I can rely on while building a business that possibly (!) infringes one of Tesla's patents. They may retract their statement and reconsider at any time, especially when times get tough.

The question is whether its a specific enough statement as to reasonably induce reliance, and whether promissory estoppel would apply. It seems to me (and I'm not an expert) like it may be close enough as to seriously threaten Tesla's ability to successfully prosecute suits, and vague enough that anyone else would still be leery about using anything Tesla has patented.

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14. ScottB+73[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:32:36
>>JoshTr+G1
For those unfamiliar with estoppel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#Reliance-based_estoppe...

That would clearly apply in this case.

15. gtirlo+h3[view] [source] 2014-06-12 17:34:11
>>henghe+(OP)
Are YOU going to built a business around Tesla's patents? If so, you just got a very credible hint that Tesla might be interested in talking to you. Isn't that great?

Sometimes I feel doing business in the US is liking playing with your toys while your mom (courts) are watching. No wonder the legal industry is so huge. It has ingrained in people's mind that other people's word are worth nothing. I wish we could look past that... go talk to the guy (or his whatever-department that handles licensing matters). If you're really interested in starting this business, it won't take much of your time.

replies(1): >>hnnewg+G7
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16. gtirlo+E3[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:36:39
>>IBM+l
Looks who's talking, the largest patent holder and bureaucratic entity on Earth. Yeah, right ;)
replies(1): >>ethbro+ig
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17. bitJer+15[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 17:46:15
>>tnorth+p1
You don't think a Judge would have serious issues with the founder and CEO suing someone after saying "hey feel free to use our patents to create legitimate products?"
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18. hnnewg+G7[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 18:14:02
>>gtirlo+h3
>It has ingrained in people's mind that other people's word are worth nothing.

Except that the legal enforcement of property rights is something that separates the First World with the rest of the planet, and is an engine for economic growth.

replies(1): >>TeMPOr+Xb
19. TWAndr+Nb[view] [source] 2014-06-12 18:58:31
>>henghe+(OP)
I interpret this as a signal that Tesla will be willing to enter into no-cost license agreements for companies wishing to use their technology, and won't pursue cases against companies who make technology that is related, and where infringement might be plausible, and could go either way when put to trial.
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20. TeMPOr+Xb[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 19:00:12
>>hnnewg+G7
Except that such big dependency on legal enforcement and settling everything in court is clearly an American think - we don't see anything near it in Europe.
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21. ethbro+ig[view] [source] [discussion] 2014-06-12 19:53:14
>>gtirlo+E3
I believe that was the joke. :)
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