zlacker

[parent] [thread] 164 comments
1. bandra+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-02-04 21:50:32
It's a tale as old as time that developers, particularly junior developers, are convinced they could "slap together something in one weekend" that would replace expensive SAAS software and "just do the parts of it we actually use". Unfortunately, the same arguments against those devs regular-coding a bespoke replacement apply to them vibe-coding a bespoke replacement: management simply doesn't want to be responsible for it. I didn't understand it before I was in management either, but now that I'm in management I 100% get it.
replies(24): >>misiti+y >>jonwin+W >>mitten+N2 >>baxtr+o4 >>mym199+R7 >>scotty+se >>ozim+Be >>cj+Pe >>snowwr+xf >>dzonga+mi >>almost+Cn >>ground+0q >>puppym+jq >>muruke+pt >>qkeast+Uu >>jaybre+5z >>kstrau+0G >>noduer+hG >>thepti+MK >>beefsa+VM >>zapthe+wN >>notyou+lR >>bjclar+vT >>bitwiz+HV
2. misiti+y[view] [source] 2026-02-04 21:53:16
>>bandra+(OP)
sorry, what do you mean?
replies(3): >>vladms+Z >>sbarre+d1 >>bandra+q6
3. jonwin+W[view] [source] 2026-02-04 21:55:34
>>bandra+(OP)
So you think this downturn will be short lived?

When management realise that the vibe coded projects are not maintainable, SAAS will be as popular as ever

replies(6): >>bandra+x2 >>osigur+E4 >>kakaci+88 >>strang+98 >>dolphi+ec >>sdf2er+ck
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4. vladms+Z[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 21:55:52
>>misiti+y
If I understand correctly many organizations will not develop original stuff internally, because nobody internally wants to be the one is shouted at if something goes wrong.
replies(2): >>bandra+b2 >>dyausp+O6
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5. sbarre+d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 21:57:10
>>misiti+y
1. Enthusiastic employee (vibe-)codes a replacement for a turnkey SaaS product that the company uses.

2. Company uses it, maybe even starts to rely on it for important business operations, and for a time the employee supports that app.

3. Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4. Employee either leaves the company or moves on to another project.

5. Pain

replies(5): >>hbn+Z1 >>pverhe+K8 >>aspenm+U9 >>mamcx+We >>misiti+sB
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6. hbn+Z1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:00:42
>>sbarre+d1
And don't forget the safety in getting to say "our systems are down because of [X TRUSTED SOFTWARE FROM LARGE KNOWN BRAND] and we're just waiting for them to fix it" instead of "our shitty internal tooling is broken and no one knows how to fix it"
replies(1): >>sbarre+m2
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7. bandra+b2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:01:57
>>vladms+Z
That's a huge part of it. But also you presumably hired a full-time programmer for a reason, and in almost every case that reason was not to have somebody to write and maintain your CRM system. So any system they build and maintain is not just another thing for you to worry about, it's a huge chunk of time that the developer isn't doing what you hired them for.
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8. sbarre+m2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:02:40
>>hbn+Z1
Yes that's reverse-implied(??) in the "Pain" step. ;-)
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9. bandra+x2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:03:49
>>jonwin+W
I don't do tea leaves so I wouldn't commit to that, particularly because I think SAAS was oversold in general even before LLMs came out. But I think the idea that the industry as a whole will shrivel away just isn't feasible, even if there is a correction.
replies(1): >>sbarre+W2
10. mitten+N2[view] [source] 2026-02-04 22:05:09
>>bandra+(OP)
what if this time it's senior developers and they actually can slap something together better then the expensive SAAS offerings?

what if the expensive SAAS offering is just as vibe coded and poor quality as what a junior offers?

replies(7): >>sbarre+n3 >>pm90+c4 >>bandra+A4 >>g947o+u7 >>kakaci+z8 >>runako+t9 >>ytoaww+bc
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11. sbarre+W2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:05:45
>>bandra+x2
The B2B startup motto of "where someone is using Excel to do something other than accounting, there's a startup waiting to happen" has been shockingly resilient over the decades, and I suspect will continue to be.
replies(2): >>Thoren+n4 >>roboca+89
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12. sbarre+n3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:07:56
>>mitten+N2
There are of course exceptions to every rule, and I'm sure some companies have been successful in building their own in-house tooling.

At the end of the day these decisions are all series of trade-offs, and the trick is understanding your requirements and capabilities well enough to make the right trade-offs.

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13. pm90+c4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:11:50
>>mitten+N2
Clubbing all saas products together just means you can’t really have a productive discussion. Saas products are on a spectrum of quality, from amazing (stripe, datadog) to terrible (fivetran, github). Its upto you as a user to make a call as to which will serve you best, what you should focus your limited resources on etc.
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14. Thoren+n4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:13:09
>>sbarre+W2
We need a new one: "Where someone is using a vibe-coded internal tool made by the creative department that keeps needing bug fixes, there's a start up waiting to happen."
15. baxtr+o4[view] [source] 2026-02-04 22:13:09
>>bandra+(OP)
This vibe-coding-will-replace-SaaS insanity is the new crypto-will-replace-fiat-money insanity.
replies(6): >>turnso+Y6 >>rishab+e8 >>DebtDe+w9 >>waynes+7n >>george+po >>fluidc+bs
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16. bandra+A4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:13:45
>>mitten+N2
To the first question, if your senior devs can do that there's almost certainly something more directly valuable to your business they could be doing than solving a problem your vendor has already solved

The second question is a valid one, and I think it will somewhat raise the bar of what successful SAAS vendors will have to offer in coming years

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17. osigur+E4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:14:01
>>jonwin+W
It seems that current advantages would compound with AI. I.e., if I am making a SaaS for Popsicle stick makers today, why I am disadvantaged with AI vs a new competitor in the space? I guess the hypothesis is the Popsicle stick maker will vibe code all of the software that they need instead. For that, we need significantly better AI than we have today - perhaps something like a 1000X improvement. Basically, this is a world in which non-technical grandparents can vibe code anything that they want. This means, it understands what you want without you being able to articulate it well in the first place.
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18. bandra+q6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:23:11
>>misiti+y
If software already exists that does X, X is a solved problem. You didn't hire a developer to solve already-solved problems.
replies(1): >>misiti+DB
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19. dyausp+O6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:24:55
>>vladms+Z
Depends on the size of the organization.
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20. turnso+Y6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:25:24
>>baxtr+o4
People really seem to believe that code is the only thing you need to make a SaaS company. It's like thinking a line cook is all you need to open a restaurant. There are so, so many other components to running a business.
replies(2): >>baxtr+z7 >>scotty+Rf
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21. g947o+u7[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:28:24
>>mitten+N2
It that works, nobody would be using Jira anymore, because people would just use a competitor that's cheaper or vibe code their internal Jira tool.

Somehow that has not happened yet in 2026.

replies(1): >>mym199+d9
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22. baxtr+z7[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:28:41
>>turnso+Y6
I agree!

Although the proponents of this idea argue that companies will create and (!) maintain many tools in-house.

It’s not so much about running a business, since you don’t sell anything and only have internal customers.

23. mym199+R7[view] [source] 2026-02-04 22:30:41
>>bandra+(OP)
We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product. In one weekend is a little much but I think its hard to deny that building will continue to expedite. What most developers don't think about is that the marketing, sales, customer service are all non-trivial parts of the business/product and all require legwork that is more than just sitting at an IDE. The nail in the coffin is that the data is a large part of company moats, and new products need time in the market to get that. Migration is also a long process and risky...so to get customers, a newcomer needs to provide way more value than what the incumbent gives.

I imagine you're going to have people trying to automate the whole GTM lifecycle, but eventually the developer that thinks they can bootstrap a one man enterprise without actually doing any kind of social interaction will run into a wall.

replies(6): >>re-thc+Ra >>risyac+fc >>overfe+2d >>Aperoc+iz >>mvkel+YE >>Nathan+fO
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24. kakaci+88[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:32:00
>>jonwin+W
They will magically realize this when their huge bonuses will be tied to something longer lasting than last quarter/year performance on some very narrow metric (which has nothing to do with sane stuff like adding long term value to some part of the company).

They are not stupid, far from it, most are (very) high functioning sociopaths. And out and up there its everybody for themselves first.

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25. strang+98[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:32:01
>>jonwin+W
All of the hype surrounding AI will subside when a SaaS company eventually deploys a moltbot version of their software and the company is driven out of existence due to the chaos that ensues.
replies(1): >>strang+3c
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26. rishab+e8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:32:46
>>baxtr+o4
No serious programmer "vibe" codes. I admit creating SaaS may not be feasible with current infrastructure but you can't ignore the insane jump in productivity that these tools can offer with the right scaffolding.
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27. kakaci+z8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:34:02
>>mitten+N2
Nice what ifs, but not valid so far. I get the motivation to think/hope so, but thats not the proper business world right now where big money are. Maybe next year it could start becoming true but then market will be a bit different too
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28. pverhe+K8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:34:26
>>sbarre+d1
I think you can avoid the pain by thoughtfully designing it to avoid lock-in. You want it so that if needed, a dev can vibe-code a migration tool to the equivalent SaaS offering. AI lowers the barrier for creating these in-house replacements, but it also lowers the barrier for scrapping them too.
replies(1): >>runako+Kb
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29. roboca+89[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:36:39
>>sbarre+W2
Paper forms used to be our main competitor.

Paper forms have some amazing features that software really can't compete with. And also some significant downsides that software fixes.

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30. mym199+d9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:37:10
>>g947o+u7
This is because what management wants and what builders want are not aligned, not because the quality of JIRA is so amazing that no other alternative could ever be created. JIRA is fine but many people I know that use have some qualms with it because the bloat is pretty crazy.
replies(1): >>bandra+sa
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31. runako+t9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:38:46
>>mitten+N2
> what if this time it's senior developers and they actually can slap something together better then the expensive SAAS offerings

A typical SaaS customer will use many pieces of software (we mostly call them SaaS now) across its various functions: HR, accounting, CRM, etc. Each one of those will have access to the same pool of senior devs and AI tools, but they will pour more resources into each area and theoretically deliver better software.

The bigger issue here is the economics of the C-suite have not changed here. Assume a 100 CPG company uses 10-20 SaaS apps. Salesforce might be $100k/year or whatever. 1Password is $10k. Asana $10k. etc. They add up, but on the other hand it is not productive to task a $150k employee with rebuilding a $10k tool. And even with AI, it would take a lot of effort to make something that will satisfy a team accustomed to any modern SaaS tool like Salesforce or Atlassian. (Engineers will not even move off Github, and it's literally built on free software.)

That's before I get to sensitive areas. Do you want to use a vibe-coded accounting system? Inventory system? Payroll? You can lose money, employees, and customer perception very rapidly due to some bugs. Who wants to be responsible for all their employee passwords are compromised because they wanted to save $800/mo?

Then, the gains from cutting SaaS are capped. You can only cut your SaaS spend to zero. On the other hand, if you have those engineers you can point them at niche problems in your business niche (which you know better than anyone) and create conditions for your business to grow faster. The returns from this are uncapped.

TL;DR; it's generally not a great idea to build in-house unless your requirements are essentially bespoke.

replies(2): >>bandra+xb >>ralniv+Of
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32. DebtDe+w9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:38:55
>>baxtr+o4
It's shocking to me how prevalent this "who needs Salesforce when everyone can just vibe code their own CRM from scratch in a day" narrative has become in the business press. Like, what???
replies(3): >>coffee+hb >>vdfs+uc >>Take84+bV
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33. aspenm+U9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:42:02
>>sbarre+d1
This feels like it goes along the lines of "people's vibe code is cluttering up our PR's, people still need to review" -- it misses the boat: models are already capable of getting you up to speed on how the code is organized and works, in as much as you want to or need to be up to speed. They are already helping me cut down review time because I don't need to aimlessly hop around, I have a good starting point that I can scrutinize and dialogue about. Same thing here: employee leaves company -- about 3 years ago you would be right, now the company is left with an unmaintainable mess of legacy code and tech debt. TODAY this just doesn't matter. No one really needs to read that code too closely, it's already easy for agents to digest and explain and modify.

Doing this today, in production, with full trust, is clearly not wise, but the writing is clearly on the wall that this is going to be the norm more and more over the coming years. The times they are a-changin.

replies(1): >>bandra+Fa
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34. bandra+sa[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:45:11
>>mym199+d9
As Spolsky said a quarter century ago, "bloat" is just "bugs somebody already fixed". (He may have actually said that about "cruft", but the idea still applies.)
replies(1): >>HeyLau+eh
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35. bandra+Fa[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:46:07
>>aspenm+U9
I think it has to actually work at least once before we can start predicting it will be the norm.
replies(1): >>aspenm+op
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36. re-thc+Ra[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:47:12
>>mym199+R7
> We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product.

Prototype maybe. Go to market maybe not so. It's giving false hope. You're just taking more shortcuts with prototyping.

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37. coffee+hb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:49:34
>>DebtDe+w9
I vibe coded Stripe and Okta in a weekend. Time to deploy to prod and save some money!
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38. bandra+xb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:51:33
>>runako+t9
As my manager said to a young me when I offered to replace our CMS, and promised I could do a good job at it, "you could probably assemble our office furniture too, but I don't want to pay you to do that either"
replies(1): >>cridde+Vi
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39. runako+Kb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:52:43
>>pverhe+K8
The thing about lower barriers is that it makes it easier for e.g. Salesforce to raise the level of expectations. And that's the moving target. New employees will come from elsewhere and wonder how a company is operating using tools from 2020 when X, Y, Z are becoming industry standard.

The key here is that the moving target will _never_ be "what can 1-2 people vibe code without any expectation of being the best at what it does?"

(Also: training people on bespoke tools takes much longer than training on configurations of standard tools. Imagine if you had to learn a new source control system at every job, like in the '80s.)

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40. strang+3c[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:54:28
>>strang+98
So… next week then?
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41. ytoaww+bc[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:54:51
>>mitten+N2
You're not considering opportunity costs and buyers vs. users.

If your senior developers can slap together something better than an expensive SAAS offering you want them directing that energy at your core products/services rather than supporting tools.

And the people deciding to buy the expensive SAAS tools are often not the people using them, and typically don't care too much about how crappy the tool may or may not be for doing the job it's advertising as doing.

replies(1): >>x0x0+Bp
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42. dolphi+ec[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:55:10
>>jonwin+W
In many cases, it's not a downturn, just a return to reasonable valuations. Other sectors should follow
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43. risyac+fc[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:55:21
>>mym199+R7
In any usable product making a product is like 20% or less. Enter compliance, security, payments and a million other things.

Even if you can build it in a day B2B SaaS will continue to prosper because they sell peace of mind, reliability and compliance. Not features.

Also due to economy of scale it will always be cheaper to buy something from a vendor that sells it to many clients than to DIY it.

replies(2): >>icedch+7d >>AlienR+Kf
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44. vdfs+uc[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:56:55
>>DebtDe+w9
That's not like "Who need Photoshop everyone can just vibe code their own photoshop"

They could just download GIMP or find cheaper alternative, that was always an option

replies(3): >>ozim+wh >>Sharli+Ku >>Ronsen+OC
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45. overfe+2d[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:59:41
>>mym199+R7
> We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product.

What are the higher-order effects when anyone can do this, and *aaS becomes a market for Lemons?

replies(8): >>trhway+zg >>mym199+7m >>Bewelg+yq >>Gorbac+Bq >>cyanyd+nr >>hinkle+rG >>lumost+NJ >>dizlex+AK
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46. icedch+7d[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:00:02
>>risyac+fc
Yep. Wait until they realize one of their vibe coded apps validates everything client side and their entire DB is open to the world.
replies(1): >>scotty+rf
47. scotty+se[view] [source] 2026-02-04 23:07:33
>>bandra+(OP)
Your profit margin is my opportunity.
48. ozim+Be[view] [source] 2026-02-04 23:08:41
>>bandra+(OP)
I like to bring up JIRA example. You could replace it in-house yeah it is just tickets with statuses. /s

But then keep in mind one who built the replacement will become the owner of an application that business doesn’t want to pay for and that person will be cost center for the company.

That person better get marketing and negotiating skills that Atlassian has on board because that person will be responsible for the app and will not be getting salary increases for working on something that is not core business of the company.

Even if you can make LLM to do the app for you.

replies(1): >>NewsaH+Lk
49. cj+Pe[view] [source] 2026-02-04 23:09:51
>>bandra+(OP)
What I struggle with is developers wanting to leave platforms like Datadog for open source equivalents that need to be self-hosted.

I hear all of the cost savings benefit, but I never see the team factoring in their own time (and others time) needed to set up and maintain these systems reliably long term.

Something IC’s at company often struggle to understand is the reason why companies often prefer to buy managed solutions even when “free” alternatives exist (read: the free alternatives are also expensive, just a different type of cost)

replies(5): >>brianw+xg >>sdf2er+qi >>bee_ri+dk >>werner+wl >>shimma+fp
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50. mamcx+We[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:10:20
>>sbarre+d1
Even more accurate (I work in this space):

3. Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4. Employee continue in the company and request help (or the managers see the need):

4.1 They hire more, but if all are vibe-coders too

4.1.1 The product gets more complicated (no more complex, that good developers can manage!)

4.1.2 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.1.3 People start to get desperate, not worries! now:

4.1.3.1 Somebody vibe-code a new alternative that solves the immediate problem

4.1.3.2 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.1.3.3 Needs to sync with the other tools

4.1.3.3.1 Somebody vibe-code the sync that solves the immediate problem

(the saga continue)

In parallel:

4.2 Eventually is obvious that need external help

THEN:

4.2.1 They ask for consultors for build tool, of course, from a company that has embraced the IA!

4.2.2 They build new shinny tool!

4.2.3 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.2.4 Needs to sync with the other tools ....

AND:

4.3.1 They ask for consultors, to teach them what to do, of course, from a company that has embraced the IA!

4.3.2 New shinny theory of how do the thing with IA is now being implemented!

4.3.3 It require a rewrite of not only past solutions but, a change of how the company behave!

4.3.3.1 Needs to sync with the other tools .......

4.3.4 And it spark beautiful office/political debates around some philosophical whatever that also trigger changes in the structure, hiring or whatever, alienating the people that has been working there, that after months, has started getting the handle of it!

4.3.5 Employees either leaves the company or moves on to another project.

4.3.6 New employees arrive, with a wild new IA tool and different vibes that vibe-coding!

... the saga continues

5. Is now clear that it need to buy a product form a well stablished software provider

5.1 And all of them are now in the IA craze!

.............

replies(2): >>sdf2er+Yi >>sbarre+ko
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51. scotty+rf[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:13:34
>>icedch+7d
Like that never happened with non-vibecoded stuff.
replies(1): >>icedch+Qo
52. snowwr+xf[view] [source] 2026-02-04 23:14:08
>>bandra+(OP)
I totally agree about the management reluctance to just own everything in house.

But I think it’s plausible that SaaS companies will be easier to start with AI coding, and with lower costs (thanks to AI) they will be able to get into the black with a smaller addressable market. So each one can have a different mix of fewer features, for different segments of customers, at lower prices.

The result would be a loss of pricing power by the incumbent do-everything big guys: no more baked-in 10% annual increases. Which is still a pretty big change in their economics. And therefore valuations.

replies(2): >>intras+7w >>camden+Yx
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53. AlienR+Kf[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:15:09
>>risyac+fc
Yep. It's a funny thing.

You build a Twitter. Profiles have posts, posts can have images, etc. It's very easy to model the database.

But then how do you make money with it? Now you need to build a separate system for advertising? Or do you want to sell subscriptions? Which means you need to build a separate system to handle payments. This is usually the big one, because when you handle money, what happens if there is a bug and you charge someone without delivering anything? How do you prevent fraud? How do you handle disputes?

Someone posted something illegal. What do you do in this situation? Do you call the police? The FBI? What kind of data do you give the authorities? How much data SHOULD you have been logging in the first place in case something like this happens?

One user doesn't like you so he bought a botnet to DDoS your website. How do you handle this? Are they mass posting? Mass creating accounts? Is it possible for them to exhaust all the usernames possible and then nobody can create an account anymore?

Your website is online but if the server blows up you'll lose all the data in the database. You need backups. You need a system to ensure the backups are actually working. But then some guy from the UK said he wants his posts all deleted. What are you going to do now, because his posts are also in the backups, and you don't want to touch those.

Trolls are posting things against the ToS. Who handles these things? Shadowban? So there needs to be a shadowban system? Moderators? So there needs to be a moderator-only section of the website? Should this be integrated with the main website or not?

Then you look at this horrendous mess of 6 paragraphs and you think back about the first paragraph that already did everything you wanted from Twitter. All these other systems, most of the work, and all you actually wanted was the first paragraph.

replies(2): >>ground+Fp >>Aperoc+7A
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54. ralniv+Of[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:15:21
>>runako+t9
We have replaced many SaaS with inhouse solutions, but most of these where lacking in quality and where part of our existing core business model which we where not "owning" prior. We can flip the argument where we have lost customers and revenue due to SaaS not delivering

The gains is generally more seen outside of monetary as these SaaS solutions where holding us back for achieving our goals and improving our services to our customers. As in the end of the day our customers do not care if "insert SaaS" is having issues, it will always be our problem to own.

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55. scotty+Rf[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:15:27
>>turnso+Y6
SaaS is mostly sales.
replies(1): >>turnso+Tg
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56. brianw+xg[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:19:41
>>cj+Pe
My log bill for Google cloud log would be like 30k. For splunk I like 80k. I self host for 1.5k per month. Spend maybe an hour a month? Easiest money I ever made.
replies(2): >>john-h+gi >>cj+cj
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57. trhway+zg[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:19:58
>>overfe+2d
in the 90-ies anyone could easily prototype with tools like Access (and all the other "4GL" tools which were similarly all the rage back then). That still didn't preclude companies from buying their major software from software vendors instead of doing it themselves.

In some sense having customer able to prototype what they want is a good thing. I did it myself as i was at the time on that side, and having a quick-whip-it tool was a good thing to quickly get some feature that was missing in the major software before that major software would add it (if at all). (And if one remembers for example Crystal Reports - while for "reports", it and the likes were in many senses such quick-whip-it tools for a lot of such customization that was doable by the customer.)

So, after initial aftershock - "Ahhhh, we don't need software companies anymore!" - we'll get to the state with software companies still doing their thing just with a lot of AI as specialization is one of the main thing in modern economy and AI becomes most powerful tools of the trade. (and various AI components themselves will be part of software delivery, like say a very fine-tuned model (hosted or on-premise) specific to the customer and software - Clippy on steroids)

(Of course some companies wouldn't survive the transition just like some companies didn't survive the transitions to client/server, cloud, etc. while some new companies will emerge like Anthropic has today or Borland had at the time)

replies(1): >>sevens+Uv
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58. turnso+Tg[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:21:34
>>scotty+Rf
100%, particularly B2B SaaS
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59. HeyLau+eh[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:23:55
>>bandra+sa
Hard to believe that it was that long ago!
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60. ozim+wh[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:25:28
>>vdfs+uc
Same with „building custom businesses stuff” you can already do it quicker with existing CRM configuration without burning tokens.
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61. john-h+gi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:29:54
>>brianw+xg
This is the exception to the rule
62. dzonga+mi[view] [source] 2026-02-04 23:30:41
>>bandra+(OP)
& the counter-argument is those SAAS apps being killed by A.I are growing revenue 20%+ YOY

people who write this BS - one never don't understand SAAS fundamentals, they only see what's on the screen and forget the complexity that lives on the backend - forget the costs of running such a SAAS

before it was low-code will kill SAAS, then Visual UI builders, now its A.I

just like it was before that crypto will kill Trad-Fi

people who say these things - have tied their identity into it so they whole-heartedly believe the bullshit they say even though reality doesn't match

to anyone curious read the 10k (Annual Report) of any public SAAS - Salesforce | Workday etc - people should admire these companies for the machines / ecosystem they built - and also learn the good & mistakes to avoid i.e the bad

those annual reports tell you how the revenue generation machine works, how much revenue is expected 2+ / 3+ years from now - their weaknesses | headwinds and also tailwinds - how those companies grow and continue to grow etc

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63. sdf2er+qi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:30:51
>>cj+Pe
Because most of them arent trained to think economically... how many people on the planet do you think are aware of the notion of opportunity cost?
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64. cridde+Vi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:34:57
>>bandra+xb
The law of comparative advantage strikes again.
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65. sdf2er+Yi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:35:06
>>mamcx+We
All of this will create noise whilst up-starts and competitors who dont fall for the trap carry on making real forward progress.

lol

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66. cj+cj[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:36:29
>>brianw+xg
When you’re in the middle of a production down event and your whole team is diagnosing the issue, and your log server is unresponsive, who do you contact for support?

No one, you pull an engineer off the production issue to debug the log server, because you need the log server to debug the production servers.

See the problem?

Edit: to be clear I’m no fan of Datadog and I wish self hosting were an option. I want this path for our company, but at least on our team we just don’t have enough (redundant) expertise to deploy and manage these systems. We’d have to hire an extra FTE.

replies(6): >>phil21+ik >>iamlep+Vk >>eagsal+Al >>mschil+4m >>sgusta+qm >>dyausp+En
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67. sdf2er+ck[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:42:04
>>jonwin+W
I dont even blame management. I believe most of them are well-aware that much of what is going on right now is pure hype.

However, they dont have a choice. The sentiment of shareholders is that they want their cash (yes it is their cash that managers re-invest on their behalf) to be invested in AI-related projects.

So...... you get what you get, and investors will get what they deserve. But they will still blame the management in the end ;)

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68. bee_ri+dk[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:42:12
>>cj+Pe
Do they actually not understand that? They might just be fine with a system that makes them more useful.

How do you calculate the time spent on an internal tool like this, actually? (I’ve never been in management). Realistically your team inevitably will have some downtime, maybe some internal tool maintenance can be fit in there? I mean it obviously isn’t fully “free” but is also shouldn’t be “billed” at their full salary, right?

replies(2): >>iLoveO+6l >>bandra+bM
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69. phil21+ik[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:43:22
>>cj+cj
If you’re having a correlated outage like that, then it’s likely you fix the prod issue before the cloud engineers at some giant cloud company even respond to an internal escalation much less fixes an issue. More than likely your prod issue is causing the logging problem.

If you mean you are experiencing two totally unrelated issues at the same time, then I don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to really assign much value to as it’s incredibly unlikely.

Half of $30k/mo trivially pays for an engineer you hire to only manage such a cluster for you and just works an hour a week unless a pager goes off if you truly need that level of peace of mind. If you’re hiring for such a position I have a few rock star level folks who would love such a job.

The hypothetical problems people imagine for on-prem infrastructure get really strange to me. I could come up with the same sort of scenarios for cloud based SaaS infrastructure just as easily.

replies(2): >>_heimd+qq >>cj+rq
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70. NewsaH+Lk[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:46:02
>>ozim+Be
You guys keep using services like Jira, Salesforce, Stripe, Datadog, etc. While those are definitely the biggest names, I don't think people are referring to those SaaS platforms as the ones they will replace or try to build an inhouse version of. It will be things like ETL pipeline services, data scraping services, maybe some internal analytics SaaS. The niche things that cost a lot because they’re in a sweet spot where only a few people need them, but no one used to have the resources to build them in-house. So, when the salesperson called and offered a perfect solution to their problem, they bought the service. Those are the ones that will be more targeted for in-house solutions.
replies(1): >>likeca+kw
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71. iamlep+Vk[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:47:25
>>cj+cj
Have you ever tried to contact their support?

The problem is all these SaaS companies have cut costs so much that all their support has been reduced to useless offshore at best and at worst a chatbot. They do go down and don't work and often times there's simply nothing you can do. The worst offenders will seize upon the moment and force you to upgrade a support plan before they will even talk to you, even if the issue is their own making.

Unless you're a huge customer and already paying them tons of money, expect to receive no support. Your only line of defense if something happens and you're not a whale is that some whale is upset and they actually have their people working on the problem. If you're a small company, startup, or even mid-size, good luck on getting them to care. You'll probably be sent a survey when you don't renew and may eventually be a quotient in their risk calculus at some point in the distant future, but only if you represent a meaningful mass of customers they lost.

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72. iLoveO+6l[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:48:48
>>bee_ri+dk
> Realistically your team inevitably will have some downtime

What? My team wouldn't have any downtime even if we had 10x the amount of people.

If you work at a company where you have times where you don't have work to do, you should polish your resume because it means the company will go under.

replies(3): >>stavro+1q >>array_+oq >>sigseg+QU
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73. werner+wl[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:53:16
>>cj+Pe
If there's ever any use case to leave an expensive SaaS for self hosted, you can find it at datadog
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74. eagsal+Al[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:53:43
>>cj+cj
Boogeyman
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75. mschil+4m[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:57:04
>>cj+cj
Fair, however at some point of a companies size/spending the complexity of integrating with a SaaS becomes as large as the one to run your own open source tool.

Beyond that, and Im aware this is very much application/company dependent, theres plenty of SaaS companies that offer horrendous or no support no matter what you pay. We used to use splunk for monitoring and logging. Paid a ton of money because we were handling financial data and needed tracibility and reliability. We constantly had to put out fires that were caused by their unreliable platform. It was not a good experience.

Ultimately, we jumped ship to Prometheus. We pay a fraction of the price and spent less time on it.

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76. mym199+7m[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:57:10
>>overfe+2d
I think that just because anyone can do it, doesn't mean they will. Lots of people have really great ideas but very few actually commit to execution. Ultimately ROI will go down, deincentivizing the commercialization of that thing someone wanted to bang out in a weekend.

In the very long term, software will become a commodity, as you mentioned. Process and workflow may move into JIT delivery for the need at hand, in theory the data layer will be comprehensive and clean and the days of clicking around a bunch of stuff to fulfill process needs will move into a lower latency activity like...talking to your agent.

I saw a quote today by Brian Eno(1995) that said: "So the question becomes not whether you can do it or not, because any drudge can do it if they're prepared to sit in front of the computer for a few days; the question then is: of all the things you can now do, which do you choose to do?" and it resonated with me a lot.

replies(1): >>Secret+vo
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77. sgusta+qm[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 23:58:49
>>cj+cj
The old argument for being locked in to legacy software costing 6-8 figures a year was that you had no choice. Now you have a choice! Clearly that is better, and everyone should evaluate that choice on its merits, and the stock market sees that people are voting with their dollars. If your whole sales pitch is "good luck when it breaks!" you might want to reevaluate your business model.
replies(1): >>camden+Gw
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78. waynes+7n[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:02:18
>>baxtr+o4
There is still a narrative here. Lots of SaaS recurring revenue is built on value-add features that can be easily replaced.
79. almost+Cn[view] [source] 2026-02-05 00:05:24
>>bandra+(OP)
Think about it differently - let's say a free OSS product can be installed and you can use ALL features except for LDAP (because that's the paywalled portion that requires you to buy it for $25k / month.)

Well, with claude, you can download the code, tell it to implement LDAP authentication, and smile all the way to the bank. And for said fortune 500 company, employing an employee to spend 100% of their time maintaining the app at 10k per month is a 15k savings! And because it _doesn't really take 100% of their time_ it's really only like $500 per month? And to be completely honest, how man times did you get Jira to fast-track your issue?

I get it however, the manager angle. It's still a distraction. But the article being referenced still shows revenue going down.

There's definitely a lot of cope in here, mostly because SaaS is keeping them employed... be ready, the crush is "almosthere".

replies(1): >>bandra+Bw
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80. dyausp+En[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:05:29
>>cj+cj
You don’t, you just look at the log like us old timers and solve the problem. It’s literally no different than solving the problem on the cloud.
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81. sbarre+ko[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:10:35
>>mamcx+We
Did you just put my post into ChatGPT with a prompt like "take this joke, make it unnecessarily longer, and get rid of the punchline"?
replies(1): >>mamcx+Hx
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82. george+po[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:10:58
>>baxtr+o4
I don't think vibe-coding will replace anything. However, what if AI tools can make skilled developers more productive, particularly at simple tasks in unfamiliar environments? You could see that reducing the engineering costs of simple utility applications. There are tons of pitfalls that many here have pointed to but also maybe opportunities to do things that wouldn't have been cost effective.

Also: In my life the easier it has gotten to create and run software, the more software people have wanted and the more they have been willing to spend on it.

replies(1): >>heavys+QE
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83. Secret+vo[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:11:33
>>mym199+7m
> Lots of people have really great ideas but very few actually commit to execution.

This is true when you had to work hard for those ideas. Now you have LLMs. It means more people can sling a lot more crap at walls with fewer barriers to entry.

replies(2): >>doctor+0w >>bawolf+Nw
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84. icedch+Qo[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:13:33
>>scotty+rf
Of course it has, but it's more likely to happen when nobody is paying attention.
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85. shimma+fp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:16:38
>>cj+Pe
I'm sorry but the amount of companies that need something like DataDog is quite small compared to their 30,000+ customer count. Maybe 5,000 companies on Earth truly need something like DataDog, 80% of their customers would be perfectly fine with a self hosted instance of grafana.

Using an open source self hosted solution should be the industry standard, encouraged position, by default. Our industry does not gain overall from using DataDog but only from truly open source solutions that utilized AGPL licenses that allows everyone to move forward together + share lessons together + contribute together toward a common goal of better observability.

Why are we acting like it's hard to set up? This isn't the 1990s, it's 2026. Tooling has gotten quite good over the last decade.

Also corporations stupidly spend money all the time, they over spend too. I recently left a company that was paying SalesForce $10mil a year in licenses when only 8 people in the entire 3,000 person company was using it. I doubt that was the only single instance across our industry too. There is a massive amount of waste and graft in enterprise sales.

I honestly doubt it if you replaced grafana for 10,000 DataDog customers they would notice the difference.

replies(1): >>cj+Gp
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86. aspenm+op[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:17:12
>>bandra+Fa
Can you be clear what you mean? What are you saying has not worked once?

And "it will be the norm" is a clear corollary of, absent any significant and unforeseen roadblock, even with the current highly imperfect agentic sausage-making factories we have today, what capabilities will be in like 6-12 months time.

replies(1): >>hunter+yz
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87. x0x0+Bp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:18:49
>>ytoaww+bc
And it's never just the slapping together. it's the ktlo: a perpetual tax on your eng team for every thing they own.
replies(1): >>Dangit+Sr
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88. ground+Fp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:19:46
>>AlienR+Kf
All those things are true. It still doesn’t sound like 1000+ engineers at 350k/yr.

What actually happens in a startup is you encounter these problems one at a time as they arise.

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89. cj+Gp[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:19:53
>>shimma+fp
> Why are we acting like it's hard to set up?

Because the current generation of “full stack” engineers are great at spinning up react apps, but struggle with infrastructure and systems management. It’s really not any more complicated than that.

On a typical 8 person engineering team, maybe 1 or 2 people will know how to deploy anything to the cloud if you’re lucky.

The expertise just isn’t there at most companies.

replies(1): >>shimma+Zu
90. ground+0q[view] [source] 2026-02-05 00:22:37
>>bandra+(OP)
> "just do the parts of it we actually use".

25 years here. You can absolutely do this. Most software is orders of magnitude more complex than it needs to be.

The junior programmer you are talking about who wanted to rewrite it in a weekend tends to come back with a working program, not empty handed.

replies(2): >>bandra+bx >>alphag+Fy
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91. stavro+1q[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:22:58
>>iLoveO+6l
Agreed, our backlog is insane.
92. puppym+jq[view] [source] 2026-02-05 00:24:46
>>bandra+(OP)
There's that and then there are companies spending 100k on a software suite just to use that 2 features. So now one of their junior dev solves it and becomes a hero. The truth it always somewhere in the middle.
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93. array_+oq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:25:27
>>iLoveO+6l
Doing work is easy, not doing work is hard. It's trivial for any engineer to find stuff to do. The trick is doing the right stuff. Most software is bad and clunky, most requirements are wrong, and most of your customers, at best, tolerate your product.

I think most software companies need to be doing less. Deleting code, refining, and making their product genuinely useful as opposed to "able to technically contort to client needs".

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94. _heimd+qq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:25:39
>>phil21+ik
100% agree. If I am using a cloud log provider I wouldn't expect them to solve my logging issue(s) as fast as I need, more importantly I have no real way to put more resources on that fix.

More importantly, with a third party service I'd be very surprised if both went down at the same time and it wasn't a further upstream issue like AWS. If its my own logging service and it went down during a prod outage, I likely didn't properly isolate my logging service in the first place.

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95. cj+rq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:25:43
>>phil21+ik
> I don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to really assign much value to as it’s incredibly unlikely.

In my experience the systems/tools needed to debug production issues are often only used when they’re needed.

Which now means you need health and uptime monitoring on your log server since without that, it might break randomly and no one notices until you need it.

> The hypothetical problems people imagine for on-prem infrastructure get really strange to me

It really comes down to the people and whether you have the expertise on the team. And whether the team can realistically manage the system long term. It’s typically safer to spend more money for the managed service.

(It’s a safer decision, not necessarily better)

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96. Bewelg+yq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:26:44
>>overfe+2d
It's not a market for lemons. We can share info about the lemons and all choose to use the good ones. There's no information asymmetry.
replies(1): >>justin+1L
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97. Gorbac+Bq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:27:11
>>overfe+2d
If you can gin these things up in a weekend then why would you bother with a monthly subscription model for software? The only valuable part is the specification and possibly the hardware to run it. If I were a CTO trying to save money I might pay for the labor to develop good specs, but I would prioritize getting out from under software companies with a rent seeking models and 80 to 90% margins
replies(1): >>bawolf+ax
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98. cyanyd+nr[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:32:45
>>overfe+2d
It means the same: random lottery of mass, with everuone else failing.

American capitalism hides the depressing fact that rarely does the best succees.

AAI momentum is parallel to just buying lottery tickets and doing so with the belief that you know the real odds, so one can overwhelm with quantity of tickets.

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99. Dangit+Sr[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:36:37
>>x0x0+Bp
No matter what it's a tax on your engineering team to keep it together. But the most brittle parts are always right at the seams. It's not as hard to sew together components when you can cut the cloth down to fit together. Who knows how it'll shake out.
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100. fluidc+bs[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:39:08
>>baxtr+o4
I don't think it will replace SaaS but I do think it can replace the need for a lot of the consultant work that goes around configuring and integrating the SaaS. It will be much easier to have a spec that defines how things need to be configured and the machines can implement it (using the SaaS as tools). Frankly this is the most annoying part. It's not that the B2B stuff can't do whatever, it's that it never gets implemented in ways that aren't a pain in the ass because it's all handled by people who aren't actually using them.

I really don't think it's not going to become "these prompts are specs" and then you have processes of reviewing implementations. It's one thing when you have randos building stuff and they leave etc. Having stored prompts and managed code that uses tools is a different beast.

replies(1): >>inheri+1J
101. muruke+pt[view] [source] 2026-02-05 00:48:45
>>bandra+(OP)
If the management is the one actually paying for the software from their own pocket (founder), the tables turn. There are millions of SME owners who are forced to pay for B2B software just out of necessity and not having resources to build it in-house.

AI could change that for good.

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102. Sharli+Ku[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:56:48
>>vdfs+uc
No, the equivalent question that people are seriously asking is "Who needs Photoshop [or graphic designers] when everyone can just vibe paint their graphics with AI?"
103. qkeast+Uu[view] [source] 2026-02-05 00:57:37
>>bandra+(OP)
The problem is right now management is not only insisting on their team vibe-coding bespoke replacements, they’re avoiding paying for other SaaS because they can vibe-code their own replacements, often themselves, and they’ve lost sight of that they probably don’t want to be responsible for it.
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104. shimma+Zu[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 00:58:52
>>cj+Gp
I guess we really are living through the leetcode generation! D:
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105. sevens+Uv[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:08:31
>>trhway+zg
Access is not as dead as you might hope. The long tail of internal tools written with Access continues to shamble along. I had to figure out how to dump MDB files on Windows last year for just this reason. As an industry I think we often fail to grasp how much outsider art there is, in the form of internal departmental tools.

LLM coding is going to create a cambrian explosion of these tools. It’s going to be very interesting to see the remnants of this wave 30 years down the line.

replies(1): >>trhway+vx
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106. doctor+0w[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:09:40
>>Secret+vo
here's reality before claude:

- nearly every enterprise IT project is a failure anyway

- "can i do this for free?" savvy people write "thing i don't want to pay for github".

- ??? "stupid smelly nerds!" (https://www.reddit.com/r/github/comments/1at9br4)

okay, what was the actual obstacle? it's really simple: in order to use something FREE, you had to touch GITHUB, which meant GIT. and people hate git.

today, with LLMs:

- "can i do this for free?"

- LLM dutifully does the needful, using projects it finds and code it learned from github, and doing the prosaic tasks of launching them for you, whatever that means.

people are getting way up into their heads about what matters, psychosocial and management and whatever bs. chatgpt is FREE. it will fix your problems for FREE. people will put up with ANYTHING for FREE.

the real innovation is laundering all that inaccessible, pre-existing solution space into a format that doesn't require transiting git and giving it away for free.

don't believe me? all of the most profitable SaaS businesses in technology are the packaging, deployment and customization of pre-existing open source free software, whether it is linux, kvm, postgres, etc. they are factories to turn stuff that is inaccessible because it is in GIT, which SUCKS - that is the hard part for people to wrap their minds around, that GIT sucks - into websites you can pay for. now LLMs do that.

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107. intras+7w[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:11:03
>>snowwr+xf
The companies that already have a strong in-house team will greatly benefit from AI. Many of those who don't are in that situation because managers have PTSD from so many failed projects. Half of all projects fail. That's a lot of emotional trauma.
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108. likeca+kw[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:12:21
>>NewsaH+Lk
Yes, but the market is punishing the former right now.
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109. bandra+Bw[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:14:53
>>almost+Cn
> an employee to spend 100% of their time maintaining the app at 10k per month

If the cost to the company is $10K a month, the developer's topline salary is $60K, which is going to be a hard hire to make.

And, again, if they can integrate LDAP with an existing software package at that price point, I want them doing something more valuable than that.

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110. camden+Gw[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:15:27
>>sgusta+qm
The stock market is trying to predict that people will vote with their dollars in the future. I’m not quite sure people are really replacing enterprise Saas at large corporations yet. It’s more of a projection.
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111. bawolf+Nw[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:17:24
>>Secret+vo
Good execution doesn't get easier with an LLM.
replies(1): >>gritsp+5P
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112. bawolf+ax[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:19:31
>>Gorbac+Bq
> If I were a CTO trying to save money

A CTOs job isn't to save money but to spend money effectively. Saving money by increasing risk is not neccesarily a prudent move.

replies(1): >>edoceo+uF
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113. bandra+bx[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:19:33
>>ground+0q
Yes, I didn't really doubt the developer could do it, the problems are:

1. That's not a great use of the developer's time, and

2. anything in-house increases our training and support costs

replies(1): >>ground+lE
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114. trhway+vx[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:22:41
>>sevens+Uv
One of the key questions here - will LLM coding decrease the proliferation of app-specific Excel files (by for example accelerating and simplifying Excel-to-webapp conversion) or would result in an opposite outcome by making feasible managing even orders of magnitude more of those disparate Excel files :)
replies(1): >>sevens+rI
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115. mamcx+Hx[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:24:36
>>sbarre+ko
Nope, normal insanity of mine!
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116. camden+Yx[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:26:40
>>snowwr+xf
This was all possible pre-AI. The reasons that some Saas companies win have nothing to do with how quickly or cheaply code can be written for the Saas.
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117. alphag+Fy[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:32:45
>>ground+0q
I've seen this happen with both juniors and seniors. They do come back with a working solution /for the happy path/. Because the happy path is easy. It turns out that most of the complexity sits in the unhappy paths.
replies(1): >>ground+pE
118. jaybre+5z[view] [source] 2026-02-05 01:35:52
>>bandra+(OP)
The difference between a vibe-coded prototype product, even a good one, and an enterprise SaaS platform is the difference between a Lightning bug and a Lightning Bolt.
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119. Aperoc+iz[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:37:52
>>mym199+R7
> bootstrap a one man enterprise without actually doing any kind of social interaction will run into a wall.

But you are not limited to only using LLM for coding.

I agree that marketing and sales is as important as product and technology, but they are not necessarily safe.

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120. hunter+yz[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:39:20
>>aspenm+op
When the effectiveness of vibe coding an internal workflow was measured, only 5% of efforts worked. That's pretty rare and bad. And those are the early adopters who tend to be more adaptable and effective with new technology. That's a big part of why people don't believe the (your) hype. Its great at simple things with a low cost of failure. Problem is, its rare to pay a good wage for simple things with a low cost of failure. Also, writing new code isn't a big part of most engineers jobs. To put it more simply, vibe coding optimizes the wrong things about engineering.
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121. Aperoc+7A[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:44:29
>>AlienR+Kf
It's still possible. Have the product and hire other people for these things.

Use stripe, cloudflare, whatever the legal equivalent of these stuff, S3.

Yes they might take most potential profit, but you'll also not have a huge payroll.

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122. misiti+sB[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:54:52
>>sbarre+d1
ya ok, this makes total sense. i agree.
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123. misiti+DB[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 01:56:13
>>bandra+q6
ya, i agree. but in your world, this company will fail https://glue.ai/ ?
replies(1): >>bandra+rP
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124. Ronsen+OC[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:05:40
>>vdfs+uc
I've had a pleasure of using GIMP recently on Mac. One of the worst UX/UI experiences I've had in quite a while. If that's where vibe coding leads to, then Photoshop is very safe from disruption.
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125. ground+lE[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:17:00
>>bandra+bx
And both are completely different arguments then your original post.
replies(1): >>bandra+zO
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126. ground+pE[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:17:29
>>alphag+Fy
I still don’t agree. The trick to good design is getting more things on the happy path. Most of the software I use is small and constructed in this manner.
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127. heavys+QE[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:22:11
>>george+po
> I don't think vibe-coding will replace anything. However, what if AI tools can make skilled developers more productive, particularly at simple tasks in unfamiliar environments?

That's not good enough.

Now that the world has successfully laughed off the "our models are so good they're superintelligent" AGI claims, AI companies and investors have moved on to the "our models are so good they're going to do all your workers' jobs" angle.

The insane investment is for AGI/total job replacement, not developer productivity tools. We are going to be sold pie-in-the-sky claims for a long time until the world wisens up to this rhetoric the same way we did with AGI nonsense.

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128. mvkel+YE[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:23:13
>>mym199+R7
> We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product

Absolutely. But this begs the question that businesses want to also sign up to maintain whatever product they've built, on top of their core business.

"Service" is the word that people seem to be forgetting in SaaS. If you roll you own, all you have is software.

replies(1): >>mym199+XX
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129. edoceo+uF[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:28:55
>>bawolf+ax
On prudent choices: one thing I'm surprised about is that LLMs are showing me libraries and tools that I'd not found via search.

A boring one from today was about select, datalist or some custome element (which LLM can prototype) or some JS libs. Good breakdown; links to playgrounds, rough mocks so team could kick tires. It raises points the team had and had counterpoint to help drive decisions.

130. kstrau+0G[view] [source] 2026-02-05 02:33:55
>>bandra+(OP)
OTOH, I was hired by an enterprise that was many months into a giant backend rewrite. After wrapping my head around the many plans, I realized they were rewriting Django, badly. One weekend I prototyped the whole thing… in Django. It worked. It met the specs. It was a CRUD app with a REST API.

I came in to work Monday morning, showed it off, and inadvertently triggered a firestorm. Later my boss told me not to do that again because it caused havoc with schedules and such.

So I quit and found a better job. Sometimes the new guy can make a better version themselves over the weekend, not because they’re a supergenius, but because they’re not hampered by 47 teams all trying to get their stamp on the project.

(In before “prime example of overconfidence!”: feel free to doubt. It was a CRUD app with a handful of models on a PostgreSQL backend. They were writing a new Python web framework to serve it, complete with their own ORM and forms library and validation library. Not because the existing ones wouldn’t work, mind you, but more out of not realizing that all these problems were already sufficiently solved for their requirements.)

replies(5): >>noduer+PG >>majorm+VK >>Novemb+oN >>clarkm+4O >>neya+5X
131. noduer+hG[view] [source] 2026-02-05 02:36:17
>>bandra+(OP)
My career occupies a weird middle ground where, for 20 years or so, I've catered to smaller businesses that need bespoke solutions (because the SaaS available doesn't conform well to their business logic), but don't have the scale or desire to build and maintain software in-house. Sometimes these are slapped together in a weekend, if that's all that's needed. But in most cases they still become ongoing improvement and maintenance projects for me.

This niche position has had some interesting ramifications for them and for me. They clearly incur a lot of technical debt once their business relies on bespoke software. On the other hand, they own the software and can get an immediate response or new feature or upgrade from me, limited only by my time. And in the end, this ends up saving them time and money. It gives me a permanent and unending flow of work. But if I die, they're pretty screwed.

One reason I don't vibe code things even now, even simple components that could easily be vibe coded, is that I remember and know where everything is, every function or line of code that might be causing issues, because I wrote it myself. I know right away where to look for a query that might be throwing errors after a database upgrade, for instance.

As a manager I assume you would probably not want to go down the road of hiring someone like that, but for companies of a certain size it's an acceptable compromise. However, I wouldn't want to hire someone like that myself unless they were extremely reliable and didn't rely on AI to write any of their code.

replies(2): >>normie+yH >>RobRiv+3I
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132. hinkle+rG[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:37:30
>>overfe+2d
Exactly. Once the market tastes like lemonade, everyone will be afraid of trying new apps in the way that they are afraid to accept phone calls from unknown numbers now.

You will trade initial development budget for advertising budget, trying to position your product in proximity with people who are known quantities.

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133. noduer+PG[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:40:09
>>kstrau+0G
Take this idea and bring your own validation library and forms and UI components to the next job, and you've described what I do. And then you have real lock-in.
replies(1): >>kstrau+2H
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134. kstrau+2H[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:42:14
>>noduer+PG
Ah, so you’re the one who made that same company’s marketing website!
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135. normie+yH[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:46:34
>>noduer+hG
This sounds great if you get on well with your clients. You must be an effective networker and at sales. How do you bill, and how do you price your services?
replies(1): >>noduer+xT
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136. RobRiv+3I[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:49:42
>>noduer+hG
People sometimes fail to appreciate the value of KNOWING the system inside and out when it comes to diagnosis and troubleshooting.

Observability is great, dont get me wrong, but past 3 to 6 months of work on the same thing...I can almost beet the observability tools in timetoresolve.

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137. sevens+rI[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 02:54:50
>>trhway+vx
I wouldn’t bet against cramming more and more business processes into Excel. The guy who was copying cells from one workbook to another yesterday, tomorrow can have a single mega-workbook with all the macros more or less deconflicted.
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138. inheri+1J[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:01:20
>>fluidc+bs
In my experience this isn’t the case. SaaS systems, at the least the ones that are embracing this sea change seem to recognize that connectivity is key. They are opening APIs and partnering like we’ve never seen. They lack the domain expertise and resources to plumb the last mile. Companies can finally customize and integrate there core SORs at a reasonable price point and if you hire the right people decent technology. It’s a golden era, I do wonder if you’re correct medium/long term but the lack of skill sets to build, deploy, and maintain these solutions is very real. Many can vibe code a great looking app, very few can support it day two even for just a few hundred users.
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139. lumost+NJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:08:03
>>overfe+2d
The history of software has been that once it becomes cheap enough for teams to flood the market with “existing product” + x feature for y users. The market consolidates around a leader who does all features for all customers.

I’d bet that we skip SaaS entirely and go to Anthropic directly. This means the ai has to understand that there are different users with conflicting requirements and that we all need the same exact copy of the burn rate report.

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140. dizlex+AK[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:14:32
>>overfe+2d
Tbh I think you’re fundamentally misunderstanding the issue (or I am).

It’s not about some single dude disrupting the saas market. It’s about largish companies who already have internal dev teams, slowly weening their company off these ginormous one size fits all saas products and building local, tailored solutions.

It’s death by a thousand cuts from the erosion of their highest paying customers.

141. thepti+MK[view] [source] 2026-02-05 03:15:49
>>bandra+(OP)
This may be true pre-LLMs, but I think you need to account for the baseline build-vs-buy tradeoff shifting.

Companies in most cases don’t want to build SaaS because it is expensive to hire engineers to do it, not because they are allergic to owning teams.

If in-housing becomes substantially cheaper than the alternatives then companies will adapt.

But even if the new equilibrium is to hire a contract dev shop to build something custom to keep avoiding responsibility, this would have the same impact on SaaS.

So I’m pretty skeptical of this first-principles prediction expressing right level of uncertainty.

replies(2): >>majorm+7L >>dizlex+cL
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142. majorm+VK[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:17:13
>>kstrau+0G
Yeah, that definitely happens.

But I don't think Claude Code is going to prevent an org that thinks they can prompt their way to a replacement for all their SaaS from having internal political bickering that makes them end up with a extra-shitty mega-compromise to try to make all the internal stakeholders happy.

If you've got no vision and no taste, you need to find a vendor who will protect you from screwing up your internal processes and tools.

Internal tools teams have rarely cared much about UX or the day-to-day experience of their poor users. The quick-and-dirty internal-prompt-based one is likely to similarly be unimaginative and unintuitive.

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143. justin+1L[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:18:38
>>Bewelg+yq
> We can share info about the lemons

That might turn out to be less than reliable over time, as bots are already screwing up systems with fake information and it's probably going to get worse.

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144. majorm+7L[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:19:33
>>thepti+MK
The same cost savings could be captured by SaaS. Potentially not by incumbents, but by up and comers.

If you can spend $10K/year to keep your in house one alive but $5K/year on the new SaaS option, you stop building your own again.

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145. dizlex+cL[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:19:56
>>thepti+MK
You’re forgetting the companies that already had developers.

Whose job had been maintaining a single internal system but had never had the bandwidth to expand their focus.

Companies like that are the ones spending millions a year for large one size fits all SaaS products.

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146. bandra+bM[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:26:48
>>bee_ri+dk
> How do you calculate the time spent on an internal tool like this, actually?

In broad strokes there's two ways. You can count it as an operational expense, or you can count it as capital (this takes more work to do but can have some advantages). If you count it as operations, it's just a big red pit you're throwing money into that you hope is offsetting a larger operational cost somewhere (but this can be hard to quantify). If you count it as capital, you're basically storing all of those hours as an "asset" which then loses value over time (it's kind of like the charge in a battery). The problem is you have to be able to show that this internal tool would, in the case of an acquisition or liquidation, be valued by the new owner at the value you're setting it at.

The problem there being that people are even more hesitant to trust somebody else's internal tool than they are to trust their own internal tool, so I've seen multiple managers think "I sunk a million dollars into this so it must be worth something" but in fact they were just running a jobs program for their team.

147. beefsa+VM[view] [source] 2026-02-05 03:33:23
>>bandra+(OP)
It almost always devolves into some all encompassing ERP that is meant to solve the needs of all parts of the business and save millions in licensing costs, and we all know how well that plan goes.
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148. Novemb+oN[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:37:41
>>kstrau+0G
> Later my boss told me not to do that again because it caused havoc with schedules and such.

Did you talk to anyone about your plans before you brought in the demo or let them know they were solved problems? Often these sorts of reactions come down to your boss not wanting their team to lose their jobs because of the perception that it can all be handled by one person who's happy to work weekends.

replies(1): >>kstrau+0P
149. zapthe+wN[view] [source] 2026-02-05 03:38:41
>>bandra+(OP)
This is an incredibly broad statement that just isn’t true in a million cases. Last co we migrated all of our observability from Datadog to Grafana/AMP because it’s much much cheaper. The vendor can charge some premium over the cost to build/maintain but not infinity. SaaS is going to have to get dramatically cheaper to compete with the lower cost of building your own.
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150. clarkm+4O[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:43:33
>>kstrau+0G
Rule #1 of power: never outshine the master
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151. Nathan+fO[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:45:17
>>mym199+R7
I sure hope I never have to hunt down any GTM options myself soon and I can tell the AI to do what it should be doing. However AI adoption may be getting slowed down by profit motives because what Google should have already been doing is letting me git clone the entirety of GTM with all its configs to a local folder so I can treat it like code because it is code. The difficulty with AI adoption will be to make all products be like this so they can interact on a code level instead of me having to press buttons in different UIs to make thing shappen. E.g cloudflare should be letting me git clone its entire config, everything I did in the dashboard, to my folder too.
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152. bandra+zO[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:49:17
>>ground+lE
No, those are the two main reasons management don't want to have internal systems belong to them
replies(1): >>ground+hV
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153. kstrau+0P[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:53:52
>>Novemb+oN
I wasn’t politically savvy enough to do that. Honestly, I don’t want to be. The reality was that the project really could have been done in a month by a couple of people. It got turned into an enterprise project with multiple unaligned teams with Gantt charts and milestones and everything.

Again, and I can’t emphasize this enough, for a Django CRUD app. It was a 4 person-week project turned into a major ordeal. No one should have lost their job; they should have been put to work doing the thousand other more productive things they could’ve been doing instead.

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154. gritsp+5P[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:54:29
>>bawolf+Nw
No, and I agree with the conservative sentiments here. However, putting together a SaaS alternative that frees up money during a crunch, and now with the pet features your boss has always wanted, is potent indeed.
replies(1): >>bruce5+9W
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155. bandra+rP[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 03:57:17
>>misiti+DB
They're in series A right now, so most likely yes they will fail like most new businesses do. Internal chat is a hugely competitive field with multiple large players (and Teams has had Copilot for a while now). So, I wish them the best, but this is pretty much exactly the kind of "existing product + AI" mashups that will have a tendency to burn out over the next couple of years, just like "our old business but with .com at the end" did back in 1999-2000.
156. notyou+lR[view] [source] 2026-02-05 04:19:06
>>bandra+(OP)
Reminded me of big balls and DOGE. Didn’t we vibe code our entire government by now?
157. bjclar+vT[view] [source] 2026-02-05 04:40:00
>>bandra+(OP)
I work at a smallish public tech company and while this may be true at some companies, it's not true at all of them. We have almost no SaaS vendors. If we do have to buy software, we're almost only interested in On-Prem.
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158. noduer+xT[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 04:40:25
>>normie+yH
I bill quarter-hourly at $300/hr for actual time writing or evaluating code. Phone conversations are free, and I take time to evaluate and explain what I'm doing before clocking in. The downside to this is that I make myself available 24/7 should any issues arise. I also don't necessarily charge for hunting down network issues or bugs (because I also host some software for clients). It works out to a good income for 80 hours a month or so.

I'm terrible at sales. My clients have only come to me by rererral from other clients. More than half the time, I'll tell prospective clients that there are already SaaS solutions that would be better for them than building something bespoke, and help them find solutions, because I don't want to do work that's already been done.

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159. sigseg+QU[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 04:57:55
>>iLoveO+6l
Agreed here as well. If you gave me 10 devs for 3 years and zero new incoming requirements the backlog wouldn't even go down by 20%.
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160. Take84+bV[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 05:01:47
>>DebtDe+w9
It gets eyeballs.
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161. ground+hV[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 05:02:29
>>bandra+zO
I see. I misread. My mistake. I agree - the issue is not technical it’s the responsibility for the project.
162. bitwiz+HV[view] [source] 2026-02-05 05:08:26
>>bandra+(OP)
Software without support is useless. In the business world, what's being bought isn't code—it's a solution to a business problem, with a throat to choke if things go wrong.
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163. bruce5+9W[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 05:13:17
>>gritsp+5P
You've hit the nail on the head. Immediate gratification.

AI is like sugar. It tastes nice, gives you energy quickly - what's not to like? The gratification is immediate, and if "today is all that matters" it's brilliant.

The problem with sugar (and AI) is medium term. So sure, that junior dev whipped up the whole framework in ClaudeCode, and it's humming nicely. Junior dev gets credit, and after a couple years moves on somewhere else.

Then something changes. Windows. TLS. Code Signing, whatever. We need to update the program to the change. Just a small tweak. Junior Dev has gone (or is otherwise occupied) so we'll get new-Junior-dev to do it. Is he expected to do the change at the code level? Or at the prompt level? Will ClaudeCode in 2029 be able to maintain ClaudeCode Code from 2026? Or will it want to rewrite everything? Will new-junior-dev have the skillset to prompt as well as first-junior-dev? Was the code good enough that a dev could just "take it over"? Or was it "it works, let's use it" standard?

AI makes everyone look good in the short term. But it worries me for what happens in 5 years, 10 years, and so on. Sugar is great, but you can't live (long term) on sugar. Sometimes you need a proper meal plan.

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164. neya+5X[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 05:22:56
>>kstrau+0G
I can relate to this so much. When I was a newly joined Google consultant at a partner firm, we went to their office - some 13 different types of cuisines, different types of game rooms, lounges and what not. A luxury star hotel experience. We were waiting for our meeting on behalf of this one particularly large media client who was bleeding money on Wordpress.

3 engineers arrived - fashionably late. We explained them the situation and all we wanted from them was some GCP offering that would cure our woes and one that would cut our bills. The senior consultant - and presumably the only tech guy (rest seemed to be salesy) wasted our time like a used car salesman - he didn't even understand Google's own product portfolio and recommended us to use something like Spanner - which was totally not the solution to the problem, not to mention, expensive.

My boss and I left the meeting pissed off and he told me - "Neya, you probably know more about the product portfolio than these guys. Let's leave". That weekend, I went with my tried and trusted favorite Db - PostgreSQL - CloudSQL with a custom Elixir middleware based an old CMS I wrote a decade ago. After some trial and error, the solution worked flawlessly (and still does till date on auto-pilot). My client still has the lowest cost in the region - 1/3rd the cost of their competitors...7 years later. Back then, there was no vibe-coding, no AI, no auto-completion. Just pure thinking and experimentation.

All this just to say I agree that the new guy sometimes can make the best solutions to a problem and not always screw up. I always listen to new hires these days (now I'm a fractional / CTO) because you never know who could pull off that 1/3rd cost cutting framework move.

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165. mym199+XX[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-05 05:30:46
>>mvkel+YE
The "service" part can still come from internal sources. Plenty of companies have internal support for internal tooling. With a good foundation of infrastructure and a lean team that knows how to build, not just vibe code, there is most definitely some ROI there.

But yes, this brings us back to the point that simply building the tool is only a small part of the process...and it has often been one of the most expensive parts of the process.

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