This means you've learned to work around its shortcomings. A decade ago I used to develop in PyCharm for websites, and Visual Studio .Net for desktop apps. Then I had to learn XCode for a mobile app.
It was a surreal experience, like going back ten years in UX, while at the same time dealing with a myriad of modern but artificial limitations and breaking changes that meant the app needed frequent housekeeping even when its features remained unchanged.
For a company that gets a huge part of its revenue on its oversized App Store tax, developers, and their tooling, should be one of their highest priorities IMO. Instead, we get Kafkaesque situations like "my app doesn't compile today... oh, I need to open my Apple Developer account in the browser and accept a new little change in their kilometric EULA that I always pretend I've read carefully". Things like this could be handled better.
Edit: I also had to learn Android Studio for another app, and the experience had less friction overall, but that could mean that I've also learned to work around the shortcomings of JetBrains IDEs. Google is undeniably more developer-friendly than Apple IMO, though.
There is no perfect IDE. They all have problems / are inadequate / get in the way. I absolutely loathe IntelliJ IDEA for example, and think Eclipse is needlessly complex (though I'd like their code-indentation/formatting UI to replace the one in Xcode).
Honestly, Xcode gets a lot of bad comments, but it works pretty well for me and the debugging tools are pretty much top-notch if you take the time to learn them.
I started a project on January 5th. Running sloc right now I see:
---------- Result ------------
Physical : 44454
Source : 31019
Comment : 7284
Single-line comment : 2622
Block comment : 4662
Mixed : 210
Empty block comment : 2
Empty : 6363
To Do : 0
----------------------------
That's a lot of code in just under a month (and none of it from AI tools), I don't think the IDE is getting in my way.
Perhaps it's just the setup you (the generic "you") are used to or something. I've got 3 4k screens connected to a Mac Studio here, and plenty of space for a terminal or four to be running on-screen at the same time and in windows that don't obscure the things I want to look at. I guess if you code on an MBP and space is limited, it might be easier to switch to ? But I generally want that space for my debugger and console-app i/o. I think it'd just get in the way...
I expect others do things differently for different reasons as much as much as I expect an IDE to support more than one type of user.
Sometimes I'll use Ghostty at the same time and switch between the two. Just depends on what I'm trying to do at the moment.
Nothing wrong with maintaining all the context you need in a single window instead of alt+tabbing to different apps, especially for those not engulfed by three 4K displays.
Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at.
> Because I like to get project-aware completions, or run pre-configured tools from the IDE in an actual shell, for example. > Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at.
Window switching is bad enough on MacOS, especially if you have multiple projects open at the same time.
MacOS has very very slow slow window- and desktop- switching (over one FULL second to switch from one desktop to another - this is not a joke!) so having a terminal integrated into the same application is very useful for maintaining flow for users developing on a single-screen Macbook.
Window switching is instantaneous though, and I do that a lot
For your use case, imagine if the Window switcher, instead of being instantaneous, was a ~1200ms animation which blocked all key presses during the animation.
I just checked with a screen recording. Switching desktops takes 15 frames (250 ms). If you turn reduce motion on, it takes 13 frames (216 ms).
Turns out, for me, the terminal emulator embedded in the IDE has been a big plus.
From a screen recording, I count 53 screen-recorded frames from the apparent start of the animation (which occurs after it's invoked) to desktop widgets becoming transparent (which appears to be the point input is no longer blocked). IINA says the video is 50.582 fps (very strange frame rate?) so that would be ~1050ms.
Of course, that doesn't include any input latency or the display latency, so I also took a video with my phone. I took two trials and I recorded a full 1.08 seconds from key depression to transparent widgets. I did two more with Reduce Motion on and got the exact same time.
I am very curious what your set up is, because I am invested in getting this as close to 8.3 ms as possible.
edit: For comparison, my Linux desktop with a similar experimental set up, this takes about 24ms from key depression to the next desktop becoming visible. The only experimental difference is that I had to switch to the "slow mo" camera to record the difference, and I have a 240hz monitor. The desktop is also considered one of the slower ones (GNOME).
TLDR: It takes 1.08 seconds, on my Macbook, to complete a desktop transition.
Not sure why yours is so much slower than mine. Mine is definitely 250 ms long or 15 frames from the time I hit the shortcut.
I used the onscreen keyboard viewer to get visual feedback when the shortcut was pressed and recorded audio so I could hear it being pressed. I even recorded it a second time using OBS to ensure I was at 60 fps and trimmed the whole segment down to just the animation and sure enough, the video is exactly 250 ms long according to IINA.
Also, I don't have any visible delay between pressing the key and the animation starting. The animation starts on the same frame as when the shortcut is recognized by the onscreen keyboard viewer (which is the same time as I hear it being pressed) in the recording. The keyboard delay must be < 16.6 ms.
when your IDE crashes (inevitably), you lose the entire console context and all running processes within it. There is also no way to detach the terminal from the IDE, say when the IDE needs to be updated (constantly).
IDE terminals also tend to be buggy.
I assumed it came from Windows users who have a habit of running everything in full-screen.
I invite you to back up your claim by researching the following (as a starting point).
Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, VSCodium, IntelliJ IDEA, PyCharm, WebStorm, PhpStorm, CLion, GoLand, Rider, RubyMine, DataGrip, AppCode, RustRover, DataSpell, JetBrains Fleet, JetBrains Air, JetBrains MPS, Eclipse, NetBeans, Xcode, Android Studio, Sublime Text, Emacs, Spacemacs, Vim, Neovim, Theia, Code::Blocks, Dev-C++, Neil deGrasse Tyson’s Seemingly Limitless Trove of Knowledge, Turbo C++, Borland Delphi, RAD Studio, Lazarus, Qt Creator, KDevelop, Anjuta, GNOME Builder, MonoDevelop, SharpDevelop, BlueJ, Greenfoot, DrJava, Son of DrJava, Evil Bizarro Son of DrJava, jGRASP, Barely Beyond Your jGrasp, JDeveloper, JBuilder, JCreator, Aptana Studio, Komodo IDE, Komodo Edit, Geany, Light Table (may it rest in peace), Brackets, Zed, Cursor, Windsurf, Trae, Google Antigravity, Void, VoidedBowels, Kiro, Qoder, Cline, OpenCode, Spyder, IDLE, Thonny, Wing IDE, Eric, PyDev, PyScripter, Pyzo, Jupyter, RStudio, Zasper, MATLAB IDE, Scilab, Octave GUI, LabVIEW, Arduino IDE, PlatformIO, MPLAB X, Keil µVision, IAR Embedded Workbench, Atmel Studio, Other FPGA Tooling That No One Has Heard Of, Microchip Studio, Code Composer Studio, STM32CubeIDE, Segger Embedded Studio, AvalonStudio, ElectronIDE, Replit, Gitpod, GitHub Codespaces, AWS Cloud9, Google Cloud Shell Editor, Firebase Studio, Codenvy, Eclipse Che, CodeSandbox, StackBlitz, Glitch, If you have read this far, I am very impressed, Codeanywhere, CodeTasty, CodeTasty+, CodeTasty++, SourceLair, JSFiddle, CodePen, JDoodle, ShiftEdit, AppJet, PowerShell ISE, Embarcadero C++Builder, some IDE that I began coding 10 years ago but never finished, PureBasic IDE, GameMaker Studio, Unity, Unreal Editor, Godot, Redot Engine, Construct, RPG Maker, Defold, CryEngine, Roblox Studio, Stride, Open 3D Engine, HaxeDevelop, FlashDevelop, Leksah, Pharo, Squeak, DrRacket, LispWorks, Allegro CL, SLIME, some IDE invented inside some company you’ve never heard of, CIDER, Calva, Cursive, Smalltalk/X, Visual Works, IBM Rational Application Developer, IBM Rational Software Architect, SAP ABAP Workbench, Oracle SQL Developer, Toad, DBeaver, HeidiSQL, pgAdmin, SQL Server Management Studio, Xojo, LiveCode, HCL Domino Designer, Clarion, Progress OpenEdge, 4D, FileMaker, OutSystems, Mendix, Salesforce Developer Console, placeholder for some truly hideous Semantic Web monstrosity, Oracle APEX, Oracle Forms Builder, some random side project that Stephen Wolfram commissioned an intern to build, PowerBuilder, WinDev, PrimalScript, SlickEdit, UltraEdit, CodeLite, Source Insight, Pelles C, Open Watcom IDE, LiteIDE, Nova, BBEdit, TextMate (not everything in this list is actually an IDE, apparently), CotEditor, CodeWarrior, Turbo Pascal, Borland C++, Visual Age, Visual Cafe, Forte for Java, Sun ONE Studio, Zeus IDE, SciTE, Programmer’s Notepad, Ultimate++, Cevelop, Zinjai, JCppEdit, WeBuilder, Bluefish, CudaText, Kate, gedit, Notepad++, PSPad, EmEditor, Textadept, Leafpad, Graviton, Lite XL, Lapce, Helix, Micro, Cosmic IDE, Squircle IDE, CppDroid, Pydroid 3, Squiggle, SapphireSteel, Codelobster, CodeWright, The Reverend Thomas Bayes’s Glorious Probabilistic Workspace, CSPro, Adobe ColdFusion Builder, yikes that last one gives me nightmares, Adobe Flash Builder, Basic4ppc, BlackBox Component Builder, Bricx Command Center, CA-Telon, Maestro I, Absoft, ANTLR Studio, Apple Dylan, Stardraw, DbVisualizer, Mule IDE, v0, Coder, Data Display Debugger, Softbench, Visual Basic IDE, Dartmouth BASIC IDE, Athas, Fresh Editor, PlayCode, MyEclipse
(Thanks Claude, once again you have been more helpful than a human, which is more than a little concerning.)
I don’t know if all of these are real or qualify as IDE’s, but I hope I’ve made my point: it turns out using the word “every” is a broad and bold claim.
And please don’t simply backpedal and say that you meant “most” unless you’ve actually done the research.
You should be careful making such statements to an audience in which many have been around when IDEs were invented.
It's certainly a useful thing to have, and yes, these days many IDEs do have it. But Xcode itself is from the time long before that feature became the default. And, unfortunately, it is mostly still stuck there.
There is some input display on Macbook Pros, but that'd account for easily <100ms of the difference we're seeing (I'm holding `control` and measuring from depression of the arrow key).
I tried changing screen resolution, quitting apps like Rectangle, etc. No dice.
In digging more deeply than I had before, I did find some things which were rumored to speed it up. Disabling multi-color preview, and disabling "displays have separate spaces". (I am using only one display). This shaves off some time (taking about 950ms)! (!!!)
There is also a four-finger gesture which, if done fast enough, appears to speed things up. But it's difficult to reproduce and often "overshoots" to other spaces.
I have a few questions, if you'd oblige:
- Are you also using ProMotion (120hz)? (The biggest thing I can find to speed this up is switching to 60hz, but this does not quite get to 250ms).
- Are you also switching using ctrl+arrowkey(left/right)? (Ctrl+number is notably faster, but not what I'm looking for.)
- Were you using MacOS before this M1 Pro? (This is my first MacOS machine, I'm wondering if there might be some hidden configuration carried over from a previous install with faster transitions).
Typically I have 3-4 different projects open at a time and probably 30-40 terminal windows across them and other places (in Ghostty).
Honestly it had never really crossed my mind that people used the built-in terminal for anything!
If I'd do anything to Xcode or Android Studio, it'd be to split more things out of them and make them excellent at their core tasks.
This is the dumbest response anyone can ever have to being presented with the answer to their own question of "what's wrong".
Ok you don't think this is important but your customer (or whatever) just to told you it's important to them. Surprise surprise this is literally why xcode sucks (because Apple seeks to dictate instead of accommodating).
Since when terminal is "the most basic feature"?
Reading threads in HN and seeing mild "wars" how Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it are worse/better than Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it, because they are slower/faster, (in)compatible with some ancient niche protocols/standards, etc.
Does not seem that basic to me?
Also it's personal preference, but I somehow used to have my editors and my terminals separate. I guess something about having a tool that does one thing best and all.
All software of comparable size and complexity have shortcomings that everyone learns to work around. And a great many of those shortcomings are actually just highly subjective personal preferences. More than half of the complaints in this thread are, to me, a terrible idea.
By your logic (that many people discuss) web browsers are "basic", IDEs are "basic", programming languages are the most "basic" thing (how many of them! discussions are limitless!!).
EDIT: have the gut to explain yourself instead of downvoting ;) , I am not discussing in bad faith , but you do you.
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but whatever it is, it works for me. I still don't see any advantage to putting a second-rate (they're never as good as the real thing) terminal into an IDE. Someone mentioned project-specific completions, but I can't say I've ever needed the terminal to do that, and I generally don't run IDE-specific tools (also mentioned) from the terminal either.
Maybe my natural workflow gels better with how Apple envisioned people using the IDE, perhaps I happen to be on the "golden path", but ... again shrug. Works for me.
This is part of the issue IMO. Is this size and complexity warranted?
Rust for example; its a complex language, can target pretty much all platforms under the sun, and yet it's configured with just text files, builds with just terminal commands, and works great with any text editor.
I've seen people in big tech work on codebases millions of files big with everything from VSCode to a russian text editor from the 90s. Linus Trovalds is building Linux with MicroEMACS. Why do I need a behemoth like Xcode to build a To Do app? Why does it have to be this "big and complex"?
Debugging is integrated, profiling is integrated, script-running as part of the build is integrated. Application output is integrated. What do you actually use it for ? Genuine question.
I guess the AI tools might be something - I don't know about that, I don't use them.
In either case that's less than 1/3 of a second. It's nowhere near what you're seeing. I'd be tempted to take the machine to an Apple Store and say "this is broken, please fix it".
In other words, I don't care about the memory use.
I think I commented earlier that there's not that much I use the terminal for during development - mainly git. Keeping a terminal open, mainly hidden, in the bottom-left corner with the tab set to the top-level directory isn't really a burden.
The whole conversation came from someone claiming the most basic feature of an IDE is to include a terminal - that's why people are discussing terminals.
Don't get me wrong, I live in the terminal when using the computer, but I don't see a need for one when using Xcode.
The original comment was aimed at Xcode though, and it's in that context that I'm (still) struggling to see why you need a terminal.
Example: Right now I have a project with a main application, a launch agent, and a framework. I can fit 3 columns of text with the font at a size I can easily read across one window in Xcode. I generally work for a period of time in one of the app/agent/framework areas, so I have 3 Xcode windows open on the same project, each having ~90% of the screen with a little overlap.
Sometimes I'll have another similar window, for out-of-context work. If I'm creating a class, and suddenly realise I want to re-factor some other class to make it work, I'll open another window (again with the 3 columns) for the re-factor work, leaving the state of where I was ready to come back to at the click of a mouse.
I personally find it easier to mouse-click to change context than any other way, so keeping the screen 'mostly' used works better for me.
The point about Xcode being complex, I disagree with. Honestly I could think of so many additional features to make my workflow easier.
Yeah, I love editing XML files to build my app
Depending on what I'm doing, I need these processes either run alongside the project while I'm working on it (like watching source files), execute them automatically when something happens (like setting up a Stripe webhook proxy when I start the debug build), start them with environment configuration from the IDE (for example a database console), or really just have them close to the code (like a linter).
IntelliJ has a task runner built-in that can do all of this very easily, in a way that I can share it with the rest of my team, and don't have to bother with remembering specific commands.
I've set up tasks to run at build-time in Xcode - the 'Build Phases' tab can add tasks to be run automatically, which are just shell-scripts and Xcode sets up just about every variable under the sun for you in the environment, so you can navigate to the right directory, add the current-target as part of a name etc. They're saved as part of the project so everyone gets them.
But that doesn't cope with the interactive side of what you're talking about. In truth, I've always just done that from the command line 'pqsl -d <database>' (or 'sqlite3 database') has always been sufficient - though if your interactive session shares the database context that the application is also using (so you're not waiting for a flush to get updates) that would be interesting.
Quality checking I tend to integrate with git rather than the IDE, setting up a hook on pre-commit to run unit tests and so on. In a previous life different teams used different IDEs, but we always wanted the tests to run :)
- Control-Left/Right takes about 1 second.
- Four-finger swipe left/right takes about 1 second.
- Alt-Tab to an app on another desktop takes about 0.25 seconds.
I'm using Sonoma 14.8.3, but from the comments it sounds like the timing distinction is similar on other versions.
For example, Apple Developer costs 99 USD a year, and you are forced to develop on a physical Mac. Google Developer has a free tier, and lets you develop on Windows/Linux/MacOS/VM.
This is just one of the little ways where Google products prioritize developers, while Apple products prioritize market share and consumers. Both companies have abusive practices, can't argue that, but Apple has more needless friction for developers.
Are you using software like Rectangle, Better Touch Tool, etc?
All of that is in Xcode (and a hell of a lot more besides). That makes it integrated, at least IMHO.
You commented above, and I replied, about some of the tasks you use an integrated terminal for, and I'm not trying to say you shouldn't or that that's not useful to you - you obviously know your own workflows and what works best for you :) I just don't see it as "the most basic feature you could integrate into an IDE" (which was the original claim).
I'd probably put 'text editor' up as the most basic, closely followed by compiler integration and then debugger. Static analysis would probably come next, then unit-testing support, doc-comments, and tools like refactoring, good multi-file search/replace etc.
A terminal app is way, way down the list. For me. I realise everyone is different and YMMV :)
When reduce motion is turned on in the control panel though, the ctrl-arrow and ctrl-# animations take the same time on my machine (216.6 ms)
I'm doing the same thing you are, holding control and measuring from when I tap the next key.
No ProMotion and only using the internal display. I was running other Macs before this, so there is a chance some configuration crossed over.
Nobody is saying not to use Xcode if you like it, but there should be a choice like there is for almost every other modern platform.