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1. bahmbo+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-01-13 21:40:44
> He was told explicitly by his boss that they weren't promoting white men.

This is what he claims but I find it very difficult to believe. Why would management even say such a thing and expose themselves to a lawsuit? Let alone "not promoting white men". It's preposterous.

replies(6): >>sanity+D1 >>kcplat+n8 >>belorn+dq >>zzzeek+FQ >>s1arti+QX >>listen+J01
2. sanity+D1[view] [source] 2026-01-13 21:47:40
>>bahmbo+(OP)
> Why would management even say such a thing and expose themselves to a lawsuit?

For years, many organizations wrongly assumed that anti-discrimination laws didn’t protect white men. Recent Supreme Court rulings—especially Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard—have made clear that assumption was false, prompting companies to rapidly rethink or abandon DEI programs.

replies(2): >>rchaud+L2 >>jojoba+UG
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3. rchaud+L2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 21:51:22
>>sanity+D1
which organizations were these? Title VII of the Civil Rights Act doesn't carve out any exceptions.
replies(4): >>tbrown+z9 >>pamcak+Rb >>will42+Rc >>sanity+Kd
4. kcplat+n8[view] [source] 2026-01-13 22:17:47
>>bahmbo+(OP)
> Why would management even say such a thing and expose themselves to a lawsuit?

The 1980s were not the 2020s. I can probably drop a half dozen working anecdotes from that time that would blow your mind…on all sorts of things.

replies(2): >>bahmbo+X9 >>antony+Ez
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5. tbrown+z9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 22:22:32
>>rchaud+L2
It also doesn't allow for the whole affirmative action / disparate impact approach, yet that's how it got applied in practice for quite a while.
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6. bahmbo+X9[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 22:24:23
>>kcplat+n8
I agree. I was there. There was no DEI and “not promoting white men” was not a thing.
replies(3): >>sanity+5j >>freedo+8k >>kcplat+jq
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7. pamcak+Rb[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 22:33:17
>>rchaud+L2
Cool. How many HR departments do you believe had the Civil Rights Act as part of their onboarding in the 80s?
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8. will42+Rc[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 22:38:40
>>rchaud+L2
Well, Harvard for one. They are the one named in the suit. You can also look at the long list of amici briefs and consolidated cases.
replies(1): >>assert+fB
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9. sanity+Kd[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 22:43:12
>>rchaud+L2
Any organization with a DEI department, which is most of them. It was pervasive.
replies(1): >>Starma+8K
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10. sanity+5j[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 23:10:26
>>bahmbo+X9
What position were you in that would give you visibility into every manager's office in the country?
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11. freedo+8k[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 23:15:45
>>bahmbo+X9
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this is the exact same argument that some people use to say that racism is no longer an issue. "I've never seen racism"
12. belorn+dq[view] [source] 2026-01-13 23:47:10
>>bahmbo+(OP)
How many times have we read about managers that explicitly tells women they won't get promoted because they are expected to get pregnant and later leave? Sometimes the conversation even get recorded on tape.

Managers being explicit raciest and sexists are not that uncommon.

replies(1): >>bobdvb+4p1
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13. kcplat+jq[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 23:47:27
>>bahmbo+X9
Well, I can’t speak to that with enough confidence to say it was “not a thing”, but I never saw that sort of thing in the eighties. Although, it would not necessarily be unusual for a manager to be that blunt and open at that time without fear of lawsuits, so that part tracks as possibly true for me if there was some sort of effort within his company.

However, latter half of the 90s I was in a high enough position in a couple of organizations to experience conversation in management meetings that the hiring of diverse candidates as a preference if possible was often discussed. Although in hindsight you would probably consider it more tokenism than a concerted effort at diversity.

replies(1): >>busyan+XW
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14. antony+Ez[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 00:41:48
>>kcplat+n8
“Politically Correct” came out of the late 80s / early 90s era. I’m certain you saw socially insane things in the 80s. I’ve had similarly insane anecdotes of investors holding court in strip clubs dangling venture capital in front of our firm in the late 2010s. Shitty people in power will always exist.
replies(2): >>bobdvb+To1 >>termin+2M2
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15. assert+fB[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 00:52:46
>>will42+Rc
Google is notorious for pulling this and numerous people have come forward pointing it out and the CEO of IBM was on air back in 2021 (?) pointing out that any white men who have a problem with not being promoted can essentially pound sand.

This is/was an incredibly common behavior in tech, and anyone who says otherwise is being willfully argumentative or is incredibly isolated.

replies(1): >>lern_t+HP
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16. jojoba+UG[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 01:36:33
>>sanity+D1
Taking being passed for promotion all the way to SCOTUS is a big ask. For decades the default position was the law defends non-white/non-men against white men. In most other western countries you still can put out job ads saying basically "white men need not apply".
replies(2): >>rexpop+cL >>watwut+jl1
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17. Starma+8K[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 02:09:11
>>sanity+Kd
In the 80's? In banking? Citation needed.
replies(1): >>AuryGl+411
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18. rexpop+cL[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 02:19:28
>>jojoba+UG
For much of history, laws in many countries were designed to uphold systems of privilege for white men. Segregation, discrimination, and unequal treatment were institutionalized, limiting legal protections for non-white individuals and women.

I mean, the legal discrimination against people of color throughout history has been accompanied by extreme violence and oppression. It's a brutal legacy that cannot be overstated.

Slavery and human trafficking, lynching and extrajudicial killings, Jim Crow laws, police brutality, denial of voting rights, economic exploitation, forced relocation and genocide, invasive medical practices, cultural suppression, and educational disparities... when you whinge about "decades" of legal protections for marginalized identities, I just wonder why you think you're making anywhere close to a salient or meaningful contribution to discussions of justice.

replies(6): >>jojoba+4M >>jdkee+aQ >>gottor+lT >>unwise+MT >>accoun+3K1 >>imetat+LA4
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19. jojoba+4M[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 02:31:10
>>rexpop+cL
The people who effected slavery and what not are long dead. A poor white boy of today or 30 years ago getting penalized in favor of a black lawyer's daughter achieves nothing in terms of justice.
replies(1): >>Larrik+WZ1
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20. lern_t+HP[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:03:11
>>assert+fB
Anecdotally, I have heard the exact opposite. The one thing that is in agreement is that the people promoted in management are uniformly incompetent.
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21. jdkee+aQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:07:34
>>rexpop+cL
Two wrongs don't make a right.
replies(1): >>rexpop+a61
22. zzzeek+FQ[view] [source] 2026-01-14 03:11:01
>>bahmbo+(OP)
It's because the boss was lying to him
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23. gottor+lT[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:36:04
>>rexpop+cL
Do you believe that the law should treat people differently based on the color of their skin? Do you believe my father-in-law, an Eastern European immigrant who fled communism, should be given disadvantages due to his being white, even though neither he nor his ancestors had anything to do with slavery in this country? Do you believe the likes of Claudine Gay, who hails from a wealthy family and grew up in the very picture of privilege, should be given advantages due to her being black?

Do you believe in punishing the son for the sins of the father? Do you believe in punishing someone who just happens to look like the sinners of the past? Do you believe that nonwhite people's ancestors did not commit the same atrocities at some point or another in history as white people's ancestors?

I'm not white, but I find ideas you espouse to be just simple racism, and nowhere close to "justice".

replies(1): >>rexpop+YZ
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24. unwise+MT[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:40:32
>>rexpop+cL
>>> For much of history, laws in many countries were designed to uphold systems of privilege for white men. Segregation, discrimination, and unequal treatment were institutionalized, limiting legal protections for non-white individuals and women.

For much of history, most countries did not have an upper class made up of white men.

replies(1): >>jojoba+yW
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25. jojoba+yW[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 04:03:23
>>unwise+MT
And for those that did, the absolute majority of white men in these countries were not that far away from slaves.
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26. busyan+XW[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 04:06:47
>>kcplat+jq
Just to throw my anecdote in ... In the 1980s, I met a handful of white people (on different occasions) who each complained that they needed a near perfect score on the State Police entrance exam whereas "other" people could be accepted with far lower scores.

So, these types of policies did exist at the time. But I'm sure there was a continuum of policies in effect at different institutions in that era.

Of course, to me it's perfectly plausible that Adams' boss told him they weren't promoting white men, but largely because I could see the supervisor lying to Adams simply for the purpose of not looking like the bad guy. ("Hey, I wanted to promote you, but you know how the Dems keep meddling in corporate affairs, right? My hands were tied.")

replies(1): >>mock-p+4x2
27. s1arti+QX[view] [source] 2026-01-14 04:18:12
>>bahmbo+(OP)
Im not suprised.

As recently as 2024, my own fortune 50 company had a policy where manager bonuses were determined POC hiring rates.

Ive been told by recruiters that they arent hiring white men in the 2020's.

In the 2000's I was also turned down by a fortune 50 defense contractor who said they needed more women to secure better federal contracts.

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28. rexpop+YZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 04:40:52
>>gottor+lT
Your father-in-law, an Eastern European immigrant who fled communism, benefits from ongoing racialized distributions of privilege, power, and money.

So, yes, I do believe he is "cutting in line," and should have the humility to stand in solidarity with, rather than standing on the necks of, marginalized communities. Your father-in-law is not climbing out of anywhere so deep a hole as the Black and Hispanic populations on this continent. Not even close.

Even the Gulag Archipelago pales in comparison to the centuries of slavery, genocide, rape, and disenfranchisement we have visited on these peoples in order to accrue the wealth that your father-in-law now has the privilege to work for.

replies(3): >>jojoba+731 >>tau255+yy1 >>raxxor+Nr3
29. listen+J01[view] [source] 2026-01-14 04:49:56
>>bahmbo+(OP)
People did all kinds of crazy shit at work (and everywhere else too) in the 80s before everyone lawyered up - guys would literally pinch a girl's ass, people used slurs to each other regularly (and often laughed about it), they smoked and drank all the time. A manager somewhere telling a rejected candidate straight up "sorry man but I've got to hire a <<insert minority>> this time" is not at all difficult to believe.
replies(1): >>bobdvb+sp1
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30. AuryGl+411[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 04:53:51
>>Starma+8K
The book that's being referenced?
replies(1): >>Starma+W21
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31. Starma+W21[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 05:16:41
>>AuryGl+411
That would be circular reasoning - we know Adams' claim is true because DEI was pervasive in the 80's, and we know DEI was pervasive in the 80's because Scott Adams said so.
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32. jojoba+731[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 05:18:46
>>rexpop+YZ
You're still talking promoting group A at the cost of group B for what group C did to group D, people in groups A and B having not much to do with C and D. Even considering descendants of original group D, the benefits are overwhelmingly reaped by those affected by whatever extant systemic injustice remains the least.
replies(1): >>rexpop+U41
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33. rexpop+U41[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 05:37:35
>>jojoba+731
Let's exchange reading lists and revisit in six months.
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34. rexpop+a61[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 05:53:26
>>jdkee+aQ
That's not what this is.
replies(1): >>raxxor+pq3
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35. watwut+jl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 08:39:45
>>jojoba+UG
What are you talking about here. You have white men having disproportionate advantages and representation all the way up.

You are just lying.

replies(1): >>jojoba+Jv1
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36. bobdvb+To1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 09:14:43
>>antony+Ez
Strippers... brothels... and /hypothetically/ I could tell one story from a well known company where a sales team got in trouble for trying to expense hookers AND blow on a business trip.

That's all post-Millennium

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37. bobdvb+4p1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 09:17:32
>>belorn+dq
My SIL, this week(!) was told by her supervisor that if she tries to apply for another team and doesn't get that job, she'll be set back in her career progression in her team. Asshole managers are everywhere.
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38. bobdvb+sp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 09:20:29
>>listen+J01
It was 1999 I think, I was doing a placement at a media company. One of the PAs was heavily pregnant, an old guy in the office said to her "My my Jane, your breasts are coming along nicely."

WTF!

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39. jojoba+Jv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 10:28:09
>>watwut+jl1
The fact that the top 0.00001% are white men doesn't make it any easier for the bottom say 30% white men. I have no problem with whoever is in bad situation getting helped, I have a problem with a Ukrainian getting penalized compared to an Chinese because long time ago a German bought some African slaves.
replies(1): >>watwut+oE3
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40. tau255+yy1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 10:53:48
>>rexpop+YZ
That Eastern European immigrant is a result of centuries of feudal slavery. The serfdom of population east of Oder meant lack of freedom of movement, mandatory free work for the lord and the clergy, great poverty and no education. Lord could decide about life and death of their serfs and killing of serf by a different noble was just resolved as part of the business with a fine/repayment. Serfs were just another commodity in lords property, the further east, the worse serfs were exploited.

Despite XIX century reforms dismissing serfdom in some regions, generational poverty of peasants kept them in serfdom like conditions up until end of WW2. And even after WW2 you could end in Ukraine with forced exports of food resulting in genocidal famine.

That Eastern European immigrant has family history of half a millennium or more in slave like conditions.

replies(1): >>rexpop+m8i
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41. accoun+3K1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 12:30:47
>>rexpop+cL
How far back should we go with the eye for an eye that someone with superficially similar characteristics once took approach?
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42. Larrik+WZ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 14:10:48
>>jojoba+4M
Nearly half of my aunts and uncles saw Martin Luther King Jr speak live on TV.

Donald Trump was in college when active discrimination by the government became illegal.

Do you think that after Jim Crow was dismantled in the 60s, that all of those people who were against it, that you see in the video footage and photos violently protesting it, suddenly disappeared?

replies(1): >>jojoba+qj8
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43. mock-p+4x2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 16:41:44
>>busyan+XW
> a handful of white people (on different occasions) who each complained that they needed a near perfect score on the State Police entrance exam whereas "other" people could be accepted with far lower score

Were these people trustworthy? Because that sounds exactly like the kind of urban legend that people like to parrot, or like a pretty standard way to cope with not getting hired. I heard a bit of very similar chatter about college admissions back in the day. “Maybe I would have had a shot if I was Asian.” Etc.

replies(2): >>busyan+RX2 >>kcplat+Vp4
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44. termin+2M2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 17:42:21
>>antony+Ez
Back when people knew how to have fun
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45. busyan+RX2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 18:17:46
>>mock-p+4x2
> Were these people trustworthy?

It was a long time ago (obviously). In general, yes, they were trustworthy, but they themselves could have been victims of misinformation--I don't really know is the short answer. But this is true for just about any bit of "news." Unless you have direct knowledge of a piece of information, you evaluate the information (and the person relating the info) and you make your best guess as to its "truth/falsity."

These days, I find it extremely difficult to trust a lot of federal "truth", so I get your overall point. :-(

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46. raxxor+pq3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 19:43:36
>>rexpop+a61
Explain the difference, please.
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47. raxxor+Nr3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 19:47:45
>>rexpop+YZ
You are currently standing on the shoulders of minorities to rise yourself above others.

If you are indeed honest about it, you can personally take a step back and promote anyone you want. Demanding it from others is just self-righteous and your intentions are questionable.

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48. watwut+oE3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 20:25:52
>>jojoba+Jv1
The bottom has women overrepresented and non whites overrepresented.

And politically, they do not get nearly as much excuses as white men do.

replies(1): >>jojoba+ci8
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49. kcplat+Vp4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 23:29:11
>>mock-p+4x2
> I heard a bit of very similar chatter about college admissions back in the day. “Maybe I would have had a shot if I was Asian.” Etc.

I’m not sure you can really say this was an urban legend, as there was a number of court cases regarding it (At least one from that far back) and a recent SCOTUS (2023) ruling specifically ending the capability of colleges to utilize affirmative action considerations for admissions. Not to say that every person who claimed such a thing was accurate, but it was happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v...

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50. imetat+LA4[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 00:36:37
>>rexpop+cL
Look up the origin of the word slave. Your world view is myopic.
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51. jojoba+ci8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 22:42:46
>>watwut+oE3
The argument is not about supporting the bottom, it's about supporting groups with some correlation to being in the bottom with no regard to actually being at the bottom.
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52. jojoba+qj8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 22:49:29
>>Larrik+WZ1
Yes, 20 year olds from the 60s are in retirement homes.

Still waiting for a good argument on penalizing one set of people who weren't born then in favour of another set of people who weren't born then is fixing any wrong done in the past.

A miserable person is a miserable person. Any affirmative action style policy gives less-miserable people a boost over more-miserable people.

replies(1): >>rexpop+b8i
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53. rexpop+b8i[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-19 12:32:47
>>jojoba+qj8
I'm not familiar with the socioeconomic category of "miserable person".
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54. rexpop+m8i[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-19 12:34:14
>>tau255+yy1
That doesn't really matter once you arrive in the US. You're now a beneficiary of American political economy.
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