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1. saubei+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-11-13 15:57:59
The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump.

Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us.

Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

replies(5): >>tr352+W1 >>anamax+I3 >>F3nd0+Q3 >>lawn+H5 >>Teever+76
2. tr352+W1[view] [source] 2025-11-13 16:07:16
>>saubei+(OP)
The EU needs China. No green deal without Chinese batteries, solar cells and rare earth metals.
replies(1): >>saubei+u2
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3. saubei+u2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:09:16
>>tr352+W1
And China needs the EU.

No rising Chinese middle class without the world's largest wealthy consumer market.

A match made in heaven ;)

replies(1): >>lm2846+z4
4. anamax+I3[view] [source] 2025-11-13 16:16:14
>>saubei+(OP)
> The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump.

From the fall of the Berlin wall until the Ukraine invasion, the US saw Russia as more of an adversary than Europe saw Russia.

Yes, even after Russia annexed Crimea. In fact, it's only this year that Europe has started to significantly increase defense spending, three years after Russia invaded Ukraine. And, even then the most aggressive increase plans end up short of where spending was during the Cold War.

Every US president after Clinton (and maybe Clinton as well) urged European countries, especially NATO ones, to keep funding defense and they cut instead.

It turns out that the cowboys were right, that there was a bear in the woods, and that "soft power" wasn't power.

replies(1): >>myrmid+G9
5. F3nd0+Q3[view] [source] 2025-11-13 16:16:45
>>saubei+(OP)
Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?
replies(3): >>saubei+q4 >>bix6+L4 >>toomuc+J5
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6. saubei+q4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:18:34
>>F3nd0+Q3
They're on the opposite end of the world, our interests do not conflict, but even overlap (i.e. they're the only other major power taking climate change seriously)
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7. lm2846+z4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:19:20
>>saubei+u2
Like Russia's gas and Germany's industry ;)

Or the EU relying on the US army for defense ;)

We're not in the post ww2 world illusion or world peace through commerce, mutual dependencies clearly don't stop nationalist interests. Trump shattered the illusion with his illegal meme tier tariffs, now we're slowly going back to empires dealing with their friends while fucking over anyone else.

replies(1): >>saubei+Q4
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8. bix6+L4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:20:12
>>F3nd0+Q3
You talking about China or the US here?
replies(1): >>eCa+68
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9. saubei+Q4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:20:24
>>lm2846+z4
There is no conflict in our nationalist interests though. We are too far apart, unless we split up Russia between us...
10. lawn+H5[view] [source] 2025-11-13 16:24:29
>>saubei+(OP)
Democracies and authoritarian regimes naturally oppose each other, which is why the EU and China will never be true allies.

Coincidentally it's also why the US and EU are growing further apart.

replies(1): >>generi+nn
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11. toomuc+J5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:24:33
>>F3nd0+Q3
China needs Europe to support its export economy because there will never be enough domestic demand to prevent a deflationary spiral. Europe is a rational actor China can expect to act rationally in trade, and Europe can benefit from that.

The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada.

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports/united-s...

https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e...

The True Cost of China's Falling Prices - >>45876691 - November 2025

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/americas-self-d...

> In 1995, China accounted for less than five percent of global manufacturing output. By 2010, that number had jumped to around a quarter, and today it stands at nearly a third.

replies(2): >>myrmid+ib >>tick_t+GH
12. Teever+76[view] [source] 2025-11-13 16:26:50
>>saubei+(OP)
Because democracies and authoritarian regimes are like oil and water.

Authoritarian regimes will inevitably attempt to expand because authoritarian leaders view the existence of people they don't rule as a threat towards their rule and they inevitably desire to grow their control and power over more and more people.

replies(1): >>barbaz+A6
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13. barbaz+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:29:02
>>Teever+76
> Authoritarian regimes will inevitably attempt to expand

Which is ironic that most of the annexation talk came from the US in the recent times, not from China. Canada, Greenland, Panama Canal, Mexico what else has he threatened to annex?

replies(1): >>imafis+Nb
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14. eCa+68[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:36:44
>>bix6+L4
China is trying to grow their influence around the world, while the US is trying to reduce their influence around the world.

From where I’m sitting in the EU, both seem successful in their quests.

(So I’m assuming they mean China.)

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15. myrmid+G9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:43:39
>>anamax+I3
I 100% agree that Europe regarded Russia as a potential trade partner (and possibly more positively than the US) even after the 2014 annexation.

But I don't think that this makes EU policy necessarily incorrect: Would German military spending of 5% GDP have prevented the Crimea annexation?

We won't know, but I don't think so, and European militarism in the 2000s might have led to significantly worse outcomes than we actually got.

I also think that painting this as a clear "US stance proven right in hindsight" is an outsized claim; EU military spending only really came up under Trump, and was a very minor topic before. You could make a similar argument that "the cowboys" were all wrong with the whole middle-east interventionism thing (in Afghanistan and Iraq), but the military side of that was at least competently executed (unlike Russia in Ukraine), collateral damage lower and war crimes somewhat minimized/prosecuted.

I sadly agree that Costa-Rica-style pacifism appears a non-viable approach for the EU now despite looking somewhat workable 15 years ago.

replies(1): >>anamax+MD1
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16. myrmid+ib[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:51:22
>>toomuc+J5
China is not exporting LNG at all, did you mean Canada?

The US is still a very large and attractive market for European exporters, and it would at the very least substantially least hurt Europeans if they had to fully substitute the US with China as a trade partner.

replies(1): >>toomuc+7h
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17. imafis+Nb[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:54:00
>>barbaz+A6
So what does that tell us about the current US administration?… :)
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18. toomuc+7h[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 17:16:07
>>myrmid+ib
Apologies if my phrasing was not concise. The idea I intended to communication was "Europe can get all the LNG they want from Canada, and anything manufactured from China."

To your point about the US market, I would put forth the size of China, India, and Africa as import markets for Europe. The population of the US is ~343M, ~745M is Europe, while that of China, India, and Africa combined is ~4.6B (as of this comment, rough proxy for total addressable markets). Admittedly the latter are at various stages of development, but I am of a strong opinion they can replace the US considering demographics, proximity, rate of development and purchasing power increasing, etc. International equities have already outperformed the S&P500 this year, so this may happen faster than we might expect. China is not as quite as wealthy as the US, but India and Africa are the last of global emerging markets and where the economic growth future of the world is. Do you configure and target your export economy for growing markets? Or declining markets?

Citations:

https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3m... | https://archive.today/P2HxS ("International stocks are outperforming the S&P 500 by the widest margin in 16 years.") - November 12th, 2025

Goldman Strategists See US Stocks Lagging All Peers Next Decade - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-12/goldman-s... | https://archive.today/aINUx - November 12th, 2025

>>44769439

>>44455077

replies(1): >>toomuc+Sb6
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19. generi+nn[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 17:41:13
>>lawn+H5
> Coincidentally it's also why the US and EU are growing further apart.

That is not a given, as there are many authoritarian political parties in European countries growing in size and influence. Possibly Europe is only the usual decade or two behind the US developments? Well, I at least hope it does not come to this.

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20. tick_t+GH[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 19:11:39
>>toomuc+J5
> The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada.

This line here makes it clear to me you've never really researched any of this. Canada doesn't have the ability to export that to anywhere but the USA and refuses to even consider building another pipeline.

replies(1): >>toomuc+nO
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21. toomuc+nO[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 19:46:30
>>tick_t+GH
https://www.shell.com/news-and-insights/our-stories/lng-cana... ("July 1, 2025: With production underway in Kitimat on Canada’s west coast, LNG Canada connects natural gas from British Columbia to Asian markets. Explore the project with our interactive map, read about the extraordinary engineering behind LNG Canada, and watch the videos to learn more about LNG.")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG_Canada

https://www.gem.wiki/LNG_Canada_Terminal

https://www.lngcanada.ca/

>>43322266

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/facilities-we-reg...

https://www.politico.eu/article/canada-lng-europe-tim-hodgso...

(commodity market participant)

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22. anamax+MD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-14 01:15:39
>>myrmid+G9
> Would German military spending of 5% GDP have prevented the Crimea annexation?

Probably not Crimea, but you'd think that the annexation would have caused some rethinking of "soft power".

The lack of European defense spending since 95 means that Europe doesn't have much to help Ukraine. (EU countries brag about "100% to Ukraine" but never talk about how little that 100% is.) It also means that Europe doesn't have much in the way of a defense industry. (And then they whine when money gets spent on US weapons.)

Getting serious in 2014 (after Crimea) would have given Europe options.

> EU military spending only really came up under Trump

Trump's comments, the actual words, on EU defense spending were basically the same as Obama and W's.

The difference was in how Europeans, especially the Germans, reacted.

BTW - do Europeans know how "But we have better work/life balance" comes across? The reaction by many Americans is "Why am I paying to defend their work/life balance?"

replies(1): >>myrmid+dD2
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23. myrmid+dD2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-14 13:36:45
>>anamax+MD1
> Getting serious in 2014 (after Crimea) would have given Europe options.

Realistically, what options? The only thing that could have really helped in my view in hindsight was either massive visible arms-deliveries to the Ukraine before 2022 (to discourage Russia), or to demonstrate willingness to join the fight (with soldiers). That willingness is and was not there (in neither US/EU), and spending more would not really have helped that.

> you'd think that the annexation would have caused some rethinking of "soft power".

You mean giving up on Russian gas early? It's a much harder call without hindsight in my view if Crimea is the main focus. The whole second Chechen war was much more problematic than that annexation in my view, and if you're not drawing the line for that, than why'd you change your opinion for Crimea?`

I do fully agree with you though that there should have been harsher consequences after 2014, and that those might have actually helped more than anything else (by making the "happy path" for the 2022 invasion worse): I think Putin considered the 2022 invasion as "quick regime change, some yapping from the west and then business as usual in a few years"; the west/EU demonstrating willingness for self-sacrifical sanctions to punish expansionism in 2014 might have discouraged this strongly.

> BTW - do Europeans know how "But we have better work/life balance" comes across? The reaction by many Americans is "Why am I paying to defend their work/life balance?"

I'll give you my European perspective:

1) Yes the US is overspending on its military, but that is entirely their own decision

2) American military spending profits itself first and foremost, because spending mainly goes to domestic industry, and forces are mainly used to further domestic interests

3) Europe is already paying for the humanitarian fallout of ill-advised US interventionism in the middle east, and indirect costs from this alone are in the "percent GDP" range as well

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a really good thing that the US did provide substantial aid during the Ukraine invasion. I personally wish that "the west" did even more, but the sad reality is that a good part of the population considers the Ukraine conflict a "not my problem", and is simply unwilling to pay more to defend human rights abroad (and the attitude is very similar between especially western Europeans and US-americans in my view).

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24. toomuc+Sb6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-15 20:14:45
>>toomuc+7h
Additional citation:

How the Rest of the World Is Moving on From Trump’s ‘America First’ - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-11-15/the-wo... | https://archive.today/m67tK - November 15th, 2025

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