zlacker

[parent] [thread] 45 comments
1. Luker8+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-09-24 13:13:54
> oes that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications'...?

No. It's still required by law, which means that your desktop application will require some interaction with your smartphone.

replies(3): >>cenamu+K >>Aaargh+i1 >>izacus+e8
2. cenamu+K[view] [source] 2025-09-24 13:17:25
>>Luker8+(OP)
Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times
replies(3): >>pessim+82 >>nehal3+V4 >>jeroen+u8
3. Aaargh+i1[view] [source] 2025-09-24 13:20:11
>>Luker8+(OP)
The wallet app can be started using a QR code. You can then finish the verification on your phone and continue on the desktop website/app/whatever.
replies(3): >>snicke+D3 >>helloj+K8 >>alerig+hQ
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4. pessim+82[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:24:31
>>cenamu+K
I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search.

One day, there will be a knock on your door.

"Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?"

"No, I must have turned it off accidentally."

"Can we assist you with an upgrade? The newer models don't have power buttons."

replies(9): >>BolexN+fa >>sjw987+hg >>fhdkwe+og >>mhitza+0j >>marcos+mE >>im3w1l+5K >>Goblin+912 >>vikart+uD2 >>int_19+6Ef
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5. snicke+D3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:30:53
>>Aaargh+i1
How can I do this when I don't have a phone?
replies(1): >>Toucan+pm
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6. nehal3+V4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:36:29
>>cenamu+K
And as a prerequisite enforcing dependency on titanic (and in my case foreign) tech companies that are free to unilaterally ban you from communicating with your government. This is a BAD idea.
7. izacus+e8[view] [source] 2025-09-24 13:50:10
>>Luker8+(OP)
My EU country allows tapping the ID card on a NFC reader on PC for verification. No smartphone needed for desktop use.

Why wouldn't that be sufficient?

replies(2): >>201984+xa >>Freak_+Wg
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8. jeroen+u8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:51:03
>>cenamu+K
Depending on the implementation, you can run the app on your computer. I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS, and there are tons of tools to run Android apps on Windows and Linux.

If the actual implementations do copy the dependency on Play Integrity and other such APIs, that does become a problem (getting past that is a major annoyance on amd64 computers because there are so few real amd64 Android devices that can be spoofed).

However, the law regarding these apps specifically states that the use of this app must be optional. I'm not sure websites and services will implement other solutions, but in theory you should not need a phone unless you want the convenience and privacy factor of app verification. I expect alternatives (such as 1 cent payments with credit cards in your name) to stick around, at least until we get a better idea about how this thing will work out in practice.

replies(2): >>Imusta+Wo >>1over1+U62
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9. helloj+K8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:51:40
>>Aaargh+i1
What if you don't have a phone? Or what if your phone runs a custom rom and can't pass google's attlestation?
replies(3): >>Imusta+Tp >>Aaargh+Ut >>codedo+6E
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10. BolexN+fa[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:57:20
>>pessim+82
The Pedestrian: https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Ped...
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11. 201984+xa[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 13:58:38
>>izacus+e8
Most PCs don't have NFC readers.
replies(4): >>baq+Pg >>izacus+6G >>monksy+qB2 >>margan+OX7
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12. sjw987+hg[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:23:18
>>pessim+82
I think you're exactly right, and the groundwork is being laid today by the standards society is setting for everybody. People will assume a lack of phone or the presence of a phone but lack of usage / content on it, makes you guilty of some sort of crime similar to owning a burner phone.

Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change.

replies(2): >>theweb+2M >>vikart+tC2
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13. fhdkwe+og[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:23:35
>>pessim+82
According to Mallen Baker, this is already happening in 9 countries. https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228
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14. baq+Pg[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:25:47
>>201984+xa
No reason that couldn't change. China should give good bulk discounts on 300M units /s
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15. Freak_+Wg[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:26:04
>>izacus+e8
Don't worry, that feature will inevitably be phased out because only a small percentage of people use it.

Every new secure government identification/authentication/verification thing will try to 'just' use Android/IOS, because 'everyone' has one those smartphones.

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16. mhitza+0j[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:35:09
>>pessim+82
Black Mirror "The entire history of you" now in mobile app version.
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17. Toucan+pm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 14:51:44
>>snicke+D3
Don't you people have phones?

Edit: Sorry that reference was a deep cut, I was quoting the devs of that awful Diablo mobile game way back.

replies(4): >>debaze+Sq >>Imusta+Wr >>slackf+Sz >>tmtvl+fj2
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18. Imusta+Wo[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:04:11
>>jeroen+u8
Waydroid on linux comes to mind. It sort of semi worked out of the box on archlinux but I can't try to imagine setting up somewhere else..

Wait a minute, while writing this comment, I realized that there was a guy who sort of packaged waydroid into flatpak-ish to run android apps in flatpak.

https://flathub.org/en/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe

(It uses android translation layer??)

I am not an EU citizen but if somebody is & they want this age verification app on desktop, maybe the best way might be to support this android translation layer to convert this EU app into something that can run through flatpak and then use linux I suppose.

I mean, some of y'all are so talented that I feel like surely someone would do it if things do go this way! So not too much to be worried about I suppose :>

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19. Imusta+Tp[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:08:02
>>helloj+K8
"Google, google everywhere. It's attestation is gonna be a nightmare."

Idk I created this just right now lol.

But on a serious note, Maybe check out my comment on something known as the android_translation_layer with flatpak to see if that might help to run that app atleast in linux.

Linking it here : >>45361397

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20. debaze+Sq[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:12:54
>>Toucan+pm
A phone isn't enough, you need an Apple or Google account as well. So if your Google account gets banned, you might as well just jump of a bridge because it's over for you.
replies(1): >>shmel+oy
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21. Imusta+Wr[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:17:24
>>Toucan+pm
No? I had been with dumb phone for almost a year from like 2024-25? What point are you trying to make as I think that there are some good dumb phones in the market which even support things like signal.

I used to use the messaging app through SMS tho, the people that knew me (that 1 friend gets a shoutout here who used to msg me through SMS in the world of whatsapp and my mom!!)

Most phones are used for two things that my father used to quote: Whatsapp (messaging app) and youtube(social media)

Entertainment could somewhat be offloaded via music player etc. into dumb phones and to be really honest, I think that even things like hackernews could be operated on those dumb phones if given the ability to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYrBpBJRI4 : this is the dumbphone which supports signal btw. Wish there was a way to make app for dumbphones like these just as how we can make apps for androids.

I was shocked by how much feature packed my chinese dumb phone was for 11.27$ lol. It just didn't have internet & yeah games as well.

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22. Aaargh+Ut[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:26:16
>>helloj+K8
Then you can't use this method of identification, just like you can't use it now. Surely it won't be the only way to identify yourself online. If this provides a frictionless way to do this for 95% of people then it's already a huge win.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

replies(3): >>debaze+ww >>Saline+TA >>helloj+5E
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23. debaze+ww[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:38:17
>>Aaargh+Ut
No, this is worse because it solidifies Apple/Google's duopoly over the smart phone market even more than it already is.

Not only that, but having this locked behind something that works for 95% of users means the other 5% will never have enough leverage for any other implementations to be approved. Which is absolutely unacceptable for such an essential feature like age verification.

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24. shmel+oy[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:46:45
>>debaze+Sq
That is easy to solve though. If Apple/Google become essentially an utility, they are legally mandated to provide an account for any EU citizen =)
replies(1): >>1over1+x72
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25. slackf+Sz[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:51:30
>>Toucan+pm
For what it's worth, I chortled.
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26. Saline+TA[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 15:55:06
>>Aaargh+Ut
The requirement for age id is already stupid.

The target, which are the children who access "forbidden" websites without authorization is likely to be lower than amount of people who won't be able to access due to those narrow specs.

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27. helloj+5E[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:08:22
>>Aaargh+Ut
Why can't we continue with an open web standard? We should have complete interoperability regardless of whether I'm using a google smartphone or a custom os I wrote in my garage or bsd or nixos. That is the entire point of web standards: to create the ability to communicate with one-another regardless of system design, so long as standards are properly implemented.

This is a general computing crisis.

replies(1): >>Aaargh+H03
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28. codedo+6E[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:08:31
>>helloj+K8
If you don't have a phone, you cannot create a new Google or Vk (social network) account today. I expect there will be more things you won't be able to do if you don't want to leak your information.
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29. marcos+mE[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:09:26
>>pessim+82
So... 1984?
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30. izacus+6G[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:16:10
>>201984+xa
Cool, but that's the fallback they offer for folks who can't use the mobile app and it works just fine.
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31. im3w1l+5K[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:32:47
>>pessim+82
What does seem to be happening is rather that the assumption of having a phone will be built into every little thing - in particular mobile payments are becoming mandatory in some places. Transportation including parking is sometimes locked behind an app. We could also see stuff like landlords moving to smart locks that a tenant open with their phone.

Since children are universally not considered real people with real rights schools requiring them to have the right apps to perform their schoolwork are to be expected.

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32. theweb+2M[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 16:41:21
>>sjw987+hg
> Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change.

While not less than 10 minutes per day for me, but I was having this argument on reddit over the iPhone Air - people couldn't fathom that there's someone out there that is not on their phone 24/7, and doesn't use their phone as their main computing device.

I clock in at under an hour screen time most days. It's the least ergonomic device for me to do anything remotely serious. Can't even stand typing on a virtual keyboard. My laptop is, and will remain, my main interface to the net and communication with others.

You'd think I was some kind of weird hermit luddite because of it.

replies(1): >>sjw987+rK2
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33. alerig+hQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-24 17:01:18
>>Aaargh+i1
This is plain stupid. Countries (e.g. where I live) already have systems like SPID or CIE that can authenticate users using a multitude of factors, for example I can authenticate myself with a QR and a phone, or I can not even have a phone at all and have a 20 euros NFC reader connected to the PC and can authenticate using my digital document and a PIN.

I see this as a huge stepback to be fair.

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34. Goblin+912[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 00:13:11
>>pessim+82
Not having power button is useless if the battery works only for a few hours.
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35. 1over1+U62[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 00:55:29
>>jeroen+u8
>I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS

That requires an AppleID, i.e. an account with a foreign corporation.

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36. 1over1+x72[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 01:00:22
>>shmel+oy
You want companies based in a country threatening to take over parts of the EU (Greenland) as being required for everything you do in society?
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37. tmtvl+fj2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 02:42:26
>>Toucan+pm
Was it Diablo? I thought it was Dungeon Keeper.
replies(1): >>Toucan+c73
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38. monksy+qB2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 06:34:33
>>201984+xa
Smart card readers are normal in Israel on desktops.
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39. vikart+tC2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 06:45:57
>>sjw987+hg
Scroogled, by Cory Doctorow comes to mind.
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40. vikart+uD2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 06:56:35
>>pessim+82
Possible option(will it BE Option?): EU:Here is my phone. Yes, it's working. It's chinese one with Huawei's Harmony OS, photos are great. or it's Russian one, I really like Pushkin so decided to get their model. Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore). USA: Here is my phone. I really like French. it's phone with with stock e/OS Point is - if it's impossible NOT to be observed - you (for now) still have choice which security service will observe you. $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE security services/police is unlikely to arrest $CITIZENS_OF_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE without $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCEtroops be here FIRST (and you will knew it). Only potential threat is that $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE could try to be interoperable with each other
replies(1): >>int_19+JEf
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41. sjw987+rK2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 08:09:51
>>theweb+2M
I've found the divide between people who switched to using a phone full time and people who still use physical peripheral based computers (even for recreational activity) is generally linked with whether the person is a digital productive/consumerist type person.

Nobody is coding or writing anything longer than an email or social media post on a virtual keyboard.

The average screen time for younger people borders on 7 hours. It's almost a third of the day or 40% of the woken day for most people. I still can't wrap my head around how that can even be possible, but then I see in public most people you look at in any given moment are reading, watching or sending/sharing something.

If the conspiracy theorists are right, the tech industry created a surveillance system beyond their wildest dreams.

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42. Aaargh+H03[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 10:58:18
>>helloj+5E
> Why can't we continue with an open web standard?

The EU wallet does use an open standard, and the wallet app itself is developed in public as open source.

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43. Toucan+c73[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-25 12:02:57
>>tmtvl+fj2
Diablo Immortal, 2018. (How the fuck was that 7 years ago already Christ…)
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44. margan+OX7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-26 20:01:53
>>201984+xa
Almost all PCs do however have USB ports, which means they can have anything you can plug into an USB port.
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45. int_19+6Ef[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-29 23:11:42
>>pessim+82
The modern smartphone was predicted with considerable accuracy in a 1965 sci-fi story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot#Joyma...

"The remote-access computer transponder called the "joymaker" is your most valuable single possession in your new life. If you can imagine a combination of telephone, credit card, alarm clock, pocket bar, reference library, and full-time secretary, you will have sketched some of the functions provided by your joymaker."

Just about the only thing today that's meaningfully different from the novel is that our devices are smaller and have screens instead of using voice as the primary input/output method. Well, and they don't have a "medical" module that can dispense drugs (yet?).

Interestingly enough, in the setting of that book, possession of a joymaker is a marker of good standing, and lack of one (e.g. because one cannot afford to pay for service) basically makes one homeless and a target for all kinds of nastiness including from the cops.

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46. int_19+JEf[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-29 23:15:29
>>vikart+uD2
> Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore).

Mother Russia: we'll take care about security, comrade, you just shut up and use a phone from this here list of approved models. And GrapheneOS? squinting suspiciously that's what extremists use to watch gay pornography; are you an extremist, then? No? Let's see if officer Rubber Hosesky here believes you...

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