zlacker

"threatening or committing violence" could mean almost anything. It isn't hard to find evidence of people (especially young ones) equating speech with violence.

I imagine that "I support assassination to drive change" would be even less popular.

>>autoex+(OP)
It will be a range of opinions within that area, but even at the tail there are a concerning number of people.

One person in a thousand prepared to commit violence for political ends can be enough to turn a country into chaos.

>>autoex+(OP)
Have we already forgotten the absurd amount of support the murderer of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare?

Maybe it wasn't 23%, but it was certainly not insignificant.

> It isn't hard to find evidence of people (especially young ones) equating speech with violence.

I don't think anyone conflates the phrase "threatening or committing violence" with "threatening or committing calling you a bad name". Yes, there's too much equating speech and violence, but the particular wording of threatening or committing imho is largely still reserved for the physical variety.

>>autoex+(OP)
> I imagine that "I support assassination to drive change" would be even less popular.

Except for in Japan? I noticed in all those reports Japan was at or near the bottom of countries measured for trust in their government. I was never able to find polling with regard to sentiment on Shinzo Abe's assassination but the majority of the country opposed the state funeral for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Shinzo_Abe#Re...

>>autoex+(OP)
If you read the linked pdf, “attack someone online” is a separate subcategory (27%)

>>Lerc+81
Because one person in a thousand is equivalent to a small military force.

>>joecoo+66
Sure he was a right wing divisive figure and I'm not saying that wasn't a factor, but opposition to the state funeral had more to do with the use of taxpayer money IMO.

>>sorami+vm
It was more than that. A remarkable number of Japanese came to the conclusion that the shooter was right about the relationship between the ruling party and the Moonies.

>>zdragn+Z2
Still the trend of calling speech a form of violence likely has the counter effect of legitimizing violence. It’s not hard to go from “speech is violence” thoughts to “well they used violence (speech) against us so it’s okay if I use violence (physical) against them”.

>>joecoo+66
Opposing his state funeral is very different from supporting his assassination.

>>autoex+(OP)
> It isn't hard to find evidence of people (especially young ones) equating speech with violence.

That incites violence. Thinking we're oppressed when we're living lives that are immensely better than that of any oppressor of the past... We must stop that.

>>zdragn+Z2
I think it would be much higher than 23%. I think most people would argue justification in using violence to oppose violence. The question would be what percent view the utilization of profit driven policy resulting in deaths as violence, and I think that too is pretty high.

>>Aeolun+Dh
Only if armed and organized

>>sorami+vm
His public image took a nosedive after his death.

I think that had far more to do with it than saving a few yen.

>>zdragn+Z2
>Have we already forgotten the absurd amount of support the murderer of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare?

Oh yea. A guy was murdered with an illegal handgun and an illegal silencer. and not one single Democrat usually so hot to call for more gun control did so.

Must have slipped their minds.

>>SV_Bub+VU
I’d encourage you to do a bit more research. An entire state banned ghost guns and bump stocks following the CEO’s murder, just 9 days after it happened… and it was Democrats, as it always has been, that passed the law over majority Republican objection. You can find loads of articles about Democrats continuing to push for gun reform. https://bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gun-reforms-among-m...

>>Fezzik+fW
Thanks, but I live here.

Michigan has been trying to ban 3D printed guns for years before UnitedHealth CEO was murdered. That was just during the session and a coincidence, not cause.

>>zdragn+Z2
> Have we already forgotten the absurd amount of support the murderer of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare?

I hope not, because that would mean people would already forgot why supporters were describing it as reacting towards violence with violence.

>>zdragn+Z2
If a mafia boss orders a hit, he is no less guilty than the one who pulls the trigger. If a CEO orders vital funds to be withheld from those who are entitled to them, knowing many will die, he is similarly guilty of murder. The mafia boss can be sent to jail, the CEO won't. The corporate veil may keep you pristine inside the cynical circles of power, but all the people see is impunity. When murderers act with impunity, what redress is there but counter-violence?

It is unfortunate, but many people have lost hope the system can change, so revolution is getting more likely, and revolutions are seldom peaceful.

>>vkou+HU
I know, but there would've been opposition to a state funeral regardless. The Japanese public perceived the state funeral and the decision-making process behind it as corrupt.

Here's a Japanese article from when the decision was made. Note that the scandal leading to his assassination, which was a significant issue in its own right, isn't even mentioned. That's because the decision to hold a state funeral was itself very scandalous.

https://www.nhk.or.jp/politics/articles/feature/89302.html

>>lores+w51
The CEO of a healthcare insurer is not involved in "withholding" funds. At best, he sets up policies that distribute a limited amount of funds among millions of claimants who are all in need of help to some degree, but he does that job poorly. If this juvenile logic is applied further, aren't you guilty of the same crime? There are people in need of life-saving drugs and treatments, yet you're just sitting behind your computer withholding funds.

>>DecoyS+8j1
1/ There is no "distribute a limited amount of funds". There is even less a "distribute a limited amount of funds after shareholder profit and massive executive paychecks". Customers have bought coverage; if the company overissued policies, they make a loss, or they go bankrupt and their own insurers cover the existing claims. Anything else is privatised profit and socialised losses, which even a callous teenager just blown away by their first glimpse at Ayn Rand should find objectionable.

2/ I carefully said "entitled to" to avoid a debate about personal responsibility and limit the conversation to "paid for a life-saving service they did not receive", which everyone will agree is wrong.

3/ If you think the CEO did not issue orders to make it as difficult to claim as possible, and drag the process as much as possible, you are a fool.

Denying help to a human is one thing. Denying them help after they paid for the help so you can buy a yacht another thing entirely.

>>zdragn+Z2
probably the best point that has been made is that there are a lot of younger people who think killing someone is a way to solve a conflict or problem

>>sorami+xg1
Also the cost of the funeral was 1.6 billion yen, which is definitely not "a few yen." It's crazy to think that taxpayers would be just fine with that.

https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/20220921-OYT1T50164/

>>Aeolun+Dh
That would be much larger than a "small" force. In the US that would approach the size of the active duty Army.

>>DecoyS+8j1
This sounds like airlines saying they have a right to bump people who paid for a ticket because the airlines couldn't figure out a business model that earned them an acceptable amounts of money without doing it. UHC does that, except instead of denying you the seat you paid for, they deny you care you paid for, and you suffer and die.

The problem is the conclusion that we must allow this so that their business economics can be sound, so that they can continue to exist. We should instead conclude that being horrible to people is bad, and any business model that requires it should not exist.

Brian saw a company that he knew ahead of time was horrible to people, that he knew ahead of time decided that many of their customers must die, and indeed this was critical to the company's economics and business model, and thought, 'You know what? I want to be a part of that. I like that so much that I want to be the one in charge of it.'

Why that job, instead of the millions of others? Well, we can take a gue$$. He had to make his nut, no matter who he hurt along the way, right?

Meanwhile, as an arguably less-horrible person, I see a job posting for startups that use AI to scan terminal cancer patient records for timely funeral business leads in exchange for offering crypto credits that can be applied towards a coupon for palliative care AI chat or whatever, or makes drones and AI systems for tracking and identifying government critics for later persecution, and I have to click 'next' because my soul is worth more than the salary. What a fuckin' chump I am.

>>elcrit+4v
Absolutely, and I am sure that is exactly why speech is claimed to be violence. It's to enable and legitimize violent retribution.

>>sorami+CR1
I put it down to the diverging opinion between gov and people on the effectiveness of Abe's policies (Abenomics, defense, etc)

>>ImPost+l12
Airlines operate under completely different optimization (game) theory, which makes for an absolutely horrible choice in your analogy.

>>zdragn+Z2
Depends on what you consider to be "support", but this report is pretty interesting and says something like 24% of US adults sympathize greatly with Mangione, and 63% have some non-zero level of sympathy for him. Outright approval for his actions isn't directly quantified by this poll but is undoubtedly lower than that 24% figure.

One interesting thing is sympathy for Mangione doesn't seem very strongly influenced by income level or level of education. The two biggest mediators seem to be political alignment and age. It seems the vast majority of US adults under 50 have a significant amount of sympathy for him, with only 28% expressing no sympathy at all.

https://www.cloudresearch.com/resources/blog/mangione-suppor...