zlacker

I'm curious if GrapheneOS or other custom Android builds would be able to avoid these restrictions reasonably.

Obviously this is going to impact the supply of apps, since the market share of custom Android is smaller than even the market share of people willing to sideload or use an alternative store on a mainstream Android phone. Many developers might quit the game.

>>goda90+(OP)
The problem with custom ROMs is that many government, banking, and similar apps don't run on them without workarounds. Some of those apps also consider this as a TOS violation as well.

>>myster+f2
Then I won't run those apps. Seriously. I know not everyone has this option, but it's been my experience that a lot of processes do in fact have workarounds when you show them the cryptic error their poorly behaved app throws.

>>myster+f2
When Microsoft first proposed a remote attestation scheme for PCs under the name Palladium, it was widely seen as a nightmare scenario. Even the mainstream press was critical[0]. There was barely a whimper when Google introduced Safetynet a decade later.

It wasn't OK in 2003. It wasn't OK in 2014. It isn't OK now. I'm just not sure what anybody can do about it.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-saf...

>>goda90+(OP)
GrapheneOS uses a sandboxed version of Google Play Services, not the GMS certified devices they mentioned in the article.

>>myster+f2
I don’t use any utility apps (identity, banking, services etc) on my phone and stick to the desktop web. And don’t use services that do require me to have a Google or apple account and phone. (Spoiler: I do)

I hope my tiny datapoint shows up in some aggregated stats somewhere.

It’s use-it-or-lose-it.

>>goda90+(OP)
Looks like they can avoid these restrictions:

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115090818389369737

> "GrapheneOS doesn't include Google Mobile Services and the requirements for certification aren't relevant to us."

>>myster+f2
I have been a GrapheneOS user since the Pixel 3 and have yet to encounter an app that doesn't work on GOS.

>>myster+f2
There are many third-party money apps that login to your online banking that are a violation of ToS. That doesn't stop people using them. In fact, when they get really big, they can be legitimised by banks. For example, to get my mortgage, I had to use a third party service that logs in to my online banking account and ingests all my transactions to show that I saved for my deposit legitimately.

>>myster+f2
GrapheneOS has offical support for hardware attestation[0].

It does require the developer to make minor adjustments, and most banks are simply too risk averse to agree to doing that (I would know, used to be a senior android app dev at a bank).

[0]: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115062761036828110