zlacker

While I believe one should not put their gender into their identity, the vast majority does, and is also not hostile towards those who don't care, and you can't really ignore gender-related issues and discrimination of current society right now because, while I think it ought not be, gender is a big deal and you can't ignore this.

And, It should go without saying, respecting one's identity is the least we can do, including the gender since it's in there. Except, of course, for horrible stuff, but surely gender is no such thing.

Actually, while I don't care about my gender, if you are not ready to respect my fellow human beings and their identity, I don't really want to have to interact with you.

When you say "not caring", do you mean "Can't be bothered to use pronouns people wish to be referred to" or "don't mind being called with whatever pronoun?" Because the phrasing is ambiguous and two of the possible meanings are radically different things.

>>jraph+(OP)
Actually they are hostile if you are non-conforming (not all but many enough that its a problem). This results in the discrimination you speak of.

At this point im not sure if socially constructing your identity is that common outside of your teenage years.

>>bluefl+Z
So to clarify, you mean cis people caring too much about their gender being hostile towards LGBTQIA+ people / people not caring about their gender and causing discrimination?

then I'm with you, a part of the problem is there.

Actually this doesn't match your first sentence, trans people pretty much care about their gender. I believe only a part of the non conforming people don't care about their gender.

Anecdote but as a cis male not caring about his gender, I never quite felt hostility against me in particular (against the male gender, sure, but I understand this hostility)

>>jraph+I1
No. Read my posts again. I didn't say "cis" or "trans".

>>bluefl+Y5
I know you didn't but at this point I don't understand what you mean, or I'm really wrong on my interpretation on your use of the "non-conforming" qualifier.

I'm confused by your comments so I'm trying to clarify by making things more explicit.

To me, "non-conforming" here means LGBTQIA+. "cis" is the closest thing to "conforming". "trans" is pretty much "non-conforming". I suspect we are not agreeing on this. What do you mean by "they" and "non-conforming"? If we don't agree on those words, it most likely follows that I don't agree with your following sentence "This results in the discrimination you speak of."

>>jraph+Hd
I did not mean "non-conforming" like having a non-conforming identity. I meant "non-conforming" because im ignorant of the expectations of my peers and i transgress their expectations unintentionally. I sort of do not have a mental concept of masculinity and femininity so my transgressions bring no discomfort to me, but to some others.

This is very abstract. An practical example: Answering "How would i know?" to "What are your pronouns?" will get you this kind of covert hostility.

>>bluefl+3i
Trans people are not usually hostile to someone making genuine mistakes. It becomes an issue if one makes them intentionally, or if one appears to be careless.

It's also ok to ask trans people what are their pronouns. They should be glad most of the time.

About cis people, I don't know. I don't have much experience in the topic. I've never seen anybody misgender a cis person. Sometimes there is a doubt but it's vanishingly rare. It's also uncommon to ask a cis person their pronouns, and I believe a cis person won't expect to be asked this because for them it should be obvious what their gender is, though it would be logical to do so because you are not expected to notice a trans person is trans and some places push for it.

I personally won't explicitly ask pronouns unless absolutely necessary and didn't have the chance to pick the information up passively. I certainly don't need this on the internet.

On the internet, the rule is simple: you should not use a gendered pronoun to refer to someone without checking first. "they" is safer if you don't want to spend time checking their profile and sometimes you just can't know. That's what I do most of the time.

Now, trans or cis, if you keep misgendering the same person, it's a bit like using a wrong name several times with the same person. People don't usually like this. Since gender identity is (unfortunately; my opinion) a big deal in our societies you have no choice to care if you don't want to piss people off. It's general politeness, if you don't want to appear rude, you need to care, remember, etc, just like you need to remember the name. Though forgetting names is quite generally understood and accepted. I'm of people who don't easily remember names at first.

tl;dr: I use "they" on the internet or check the profile. In real life, I try to pick it up and remember the information. It has not happened to me that I misgender someone, but I consider it is fine once but will not make the mistake twice.

>>jraph+6m
You seem to have the right gears in the brain so for you, it's a matter of using the right pronouns and names. The rest fits in naturally.

That isn't the case for everyone, tho.

>>bluefl+Nx
I think what I suggest works for someone who would struggle with discerning between a male and a female (applicable only to binary people, it should be a non issue for non binary ones).

Just use they. Try to remember the gender when told, but if this is still an issue, use they (for the names, I just find workarounds to not have to mention them when I can help it).

(especially in English that seems more and more current; in French iel is becoming more common but still not very widespread)

Surely people can understand and accept your struggle if you explain what's happening, though again, I never met someone like this knowingly, so I can't be sure how that works.

You're too ahead of your time! :-)