zlacker

[parent] [thread] 31 comments
1. emoden+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:32:13
If your beef with this structure is that executives get paid handsomely I have bad news about the entire category of nonprofits, regardless of whether they have for-profit arms or not.
replies(7): >>nerdpo+u >>dkjaud+w2 >>dasil0+x2 >>cobert+F3 >>rvba+a4 >>billyw+9a >>mcint+Mi
2. nerdpo+u[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:35:09
>>emoden+(OP)
I think they're making the same point as you: "nonprofit" is usually a scam to enrich executives anyway.
replies(1): >>Walter+Gg
3. dkjaud+w2[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:44:55
>>emoden+(OP)
I really wouldn't give a shit how much they were paid if we got something more than vague promises.

They could release the source with a licence that restricted commercial use, anything they wanted, that still allowed them to profit.

Instead we get "AI is too dangerous for anyone else to have." The whole thing doesn't inspire confidence.

replies(1): >>LordDr+pd
4. dasil0+x2[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:45:00
>>emoden+(OP)
GP clearly understands this and said it explicitly, hence “OpenAI more subtle scam” part.
replies(1): >>emoden+z3
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5. emoden+z3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 17:49:14
>>dasil0+x2
Isn't OpenAI a less subtle scam in that case?
replies(1): >>j16sdi+l6
6. cobert+F3[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:49:51
>>emoden+(OP)
Not many people seem to understand this. Here's an example from a previous rabbit hole.

The Sherman Fairchild Foundation (which manages the post-humous funds of the guy who made Fairchild Semiconductor) pays its president $500k+ and chairman about the same. https://beta.candid.org/profile/6906786?keyword=Sherman+fair... (Click Form 990 and select a form)

I do love IRS Form 990 in this way. It sheds a lot of light into this.

replies(5): >>jdblai+P5 >>doktri+17 >>troupe+i7 >>caturo+h9 >>joquar+ug
7. rvba+a4[view] [source] 2024-03-01 17:52:16
>>emoden+(OP)
The Mozilla management seems to be disinterested in doing anything to improve Firefox market share (by for example doing what users want: customization), they waste money on various "investments" and half-bake projects that are used by developers to stat-pad their CVs - and at the end of the day, they are paid millions.

IMO you could cut the CEOs salary from 6 million to 300k and get a new CEO - and we probably wouldnt see any difference in Firefox results. Perhaps improvement even. Since the poorly paid CEO would try to demonstrate value - and this best is done by bringing back firefox market share.

replies(1): >>psycho+c8
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8. jdblai+P5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 17:59:32
>>cobert+F3
That salary for managing $1B in assets doesn't seem high to me. Am I missing something?
replies(2): >>smalln+wa >>buggle+Fd
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9. j16sdi+l6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:01:40
>>emoden+z3
It's more.

It give empty promise.

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10. doktri+17[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:04:26
>>cobert+F3
So basically the same as a faang staff engineer?
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11. troupe+i7[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:05:52
>>cobert+F3
Getting paid $500k, while it is a lot of money, is not at all the same as someone benefiting from the profit of a company and making 100s of millions of dollars. $500k doesn't at all seem like an unreasonable salary for someone who is a really good executive and could be managing a for-profit company instead.
replies(1): >>Walter+8g
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12. psycho+c8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:09:46
>>rvba+a4
>300k [...] poorly paid

The median annual wage in 2021 in the US was $45,760,

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/job...

Just to put bit of perspective...

replies(1): >>rvba+uR
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13. caturo+h9[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:15:14
>>cobert+F3
I am a lot more offended or pleased by whether the leader manages a 60MM budget and a 1B endowment than their 500k salary.

There's this weird thing where charities are judged by how much they cost to run and pay their employees to even a greater degree than other organizations, and even by people who would resist that strategy for businesses. It's easy to imagine a good leader executing the mission way more than 500k better than a meh one, and even more dramatically so for 'overhead' in general (as though a nonprofit would consistently be doing their job better by cutting down staffing for vetting grants or improving shipping logistics or whatever).

replies(1): >>caturo+Tm
14. billyw+9a[view] [source] 2024-03-01 18:19:43
>>emoden+(OP)
the way openai structure their pay is dubious to say the least. maybe they will find a way to make money someday but rn everything they are doing is setting my alarm bells off.

"In conversations with recruiters we’ve heard from some candidates that OpenAI is communicating that they don’t expect to turn a profit until they reach their mission of Artificial General Intelligence" https://www.levels.fyi/blog/openai-compensation.html

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15. smalln+wa[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:21:29
>>jdblai+P5
$1bn in assets isn’t much, at the high end you can charge maybe $20mm a year (hedge fund), at the low end a few million (public equity fund). That needs to pay not just execs but accountants, etc.

Put another way, a $1bn hedge fund is considered a small boutique that typically only employs a handful of people.

replies(1): >>tomp+Ij
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16. LordDr+pd[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:33:17
>>dkjaud+w2
>I really wouldn't give a shit how much they were paid if we got something more than vague promises.

"We" got a free-as-in-beer general knowledge chat system leagues better than anything at the time, suitable for most low-impact general knowledge and creative work (easily operable by non-technical users), a ridiculously cheap api for it, and the papers detailing how to replicate it.

The same SOTA with image generation, just hosted by Microsoft/Bing.

Like, not to defend OpenAI, but if the goal was improving the state of general AI, they've done a hell of a lot - much of which your average tech-literate person would not have believed was even possible. Not single-handedly, obviously, but they were major contributors to almost all of the current SOTA. The only thing they haven't done is release the weights, and I feel like everything else they've done has been lost in the discussion, here.

replies(2): >>kaoD+He >>whaleo+Lf
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17. buggle+Fd[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:34:31
>>jdblai+P5
One cool thing is that the these funds don’t actually need active management and that in itself is a form of predatory graft. You could stick them all in a diverse array of index funds and call it a day, as pretty much no fund managers outperform those.
replies(2): >>Walter+kg >>jdblai+Sg
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18. kaoD+He[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:40:00
>>LordDr+pd
> The only thing they haven't done is release the weights.

Not at all. With GPT-3 they only released a paper roughly describing it but in no way it allowed replication (and obviously no source code, nor the actual NN model, with or without weights).

GPT-4 was even worse since they didn't even release a paper, just a "system card" that amounted to describing that its outputs were good.

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19. whaleo+Lf[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:44:45
>>LordDr+pd
> "We" got a free-as-in-beer general knowledge chat system leagues better than anything at the time

Where can I go get or drink from my free as in beer chat system from them then?

replies(1): >>LordDr+5h
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20. Walter+8g[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:46:15
>>troupe+i7
Nadella increased the value of MSFT 10x since he took over MSFT. He's worth a heluva lot more than $500k to MSFT shareholders.
replies(1): >>fakeda+2j
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21. Walter+kg[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:47:12
>>buggle+Fd
So don't invest in them. (Actually, I agree with you. I don't invest in them.)
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22. joquar+ug[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:48:30
>>cobert+F3
I once did an elastic search project that indexed the 990 data, and there is a lot of shady shit going on.

I remember one org had so many money pipes going in/out of it that I had to modify my code to make a special case for them.

replies(1): >>cobert+TB
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23. Walter+Gg[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:49:32
>>nerdpo+u
The D Language Foundation is a non-profit. We formed it so that businesses could have a proper legal entity to donate to. The executives don't get any compensation.
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24. jdblai+Sg[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:50:05
>>buggle+Fd
I have no idea if the fund is actively managed. I assume the president is mostly fundraising, deciding how to spend the proceeds, and dealing with administration. That's a job, right? Or should we just have robo-foundations?
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25. LordDr+5h[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 18:51:17
>>whaleo+Lf
https://chat.openai.com/

(No, having to create an account does not mean it's "not free")

replies(1): >>remote+Lj
26. mcint+Mi[view] [source] 2024-03-01 18:59:31
>>emoden+(OP)
It has mattered in other cases, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSP_Vision_Care

> In 2003 the Internal Revenue Service revoked VSP's tax exempt status citing exclusionary, members-only practices, and high compensation to executives.[3]

Or later in the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSP_Vision_Care#Non-profit_sta...

> In 2005, a federal district judge in Sacramento, California found that VSP failed to prove that it was not organized for profit nor for the promotion of the greater social welfare, as is required of a 501(c)(4). Instead, the district court found, VSP operates much like a for-profit (with, for example, its executives getting bonuses tied to net income) and primarily for the benefit of its own member/subscribers, not for some greater social good and, thereafter, concluded it was not entitled to tax-exempt status under 501(c)(4).[16]

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27. fakeda+2j[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 19:00:12
>>Walter+8g
Microsoft isn't a non profit, and didn't begin as a non profit. Like how even?
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28. tomp+Ij[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 19:03:24
>>smalln+wa
Those $20m are literally to keep the lights on (base salary, law firm, prime brokers, data feeds, exchange connectivity).

Nobody in the hedge fund world works for salary.

They work for bonuses. Which for $1bn fund should be another $20m or so (20% profit share of 10% returns), otherwise you suck.

If bonuses aren’t available in non-profits, the base salaries should be much higher.

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29. remote+Lj[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 19:03:36
>>LordDr+5h
I have to login? Sorry but that's not free, as they want my PII to be able to use it. Yes, I'm from the EU.
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30. caturo+Tm[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 19:17:07
>>caturo+h9
*offended or pleased by _how well_ the leader manages...
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31. cobert+TB[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 20:43:58
>>joquar+ug
This sounds absolutely fascinating. Did you write about it/share it anywhere?
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32. rvba+uR[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-03-01 22:27:27
>>psycho+c8
300 thousand is a "poor" pay for a CEO

Current CEO earns 20 times more -> 6 million per year

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