zlacker

[parent] [thread] 29 comments
1. varjag+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:11:49
Mine has a camera that shows you the contents of the fridge. It's been useful on many occasions.
replies(5): >>ekianj+a >>nly+32 >>samast+m2 >>billpg+I3 >>gregma+74
2. ekianj+a[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:12:39
>>varjag+(OP)
Helpful to save you three steps and a lift of a hand to see whats inside?
replies(5): >>shiroi+w >>ArnoVW+A >>troupo+E >>jona-f+Q >>varjag+R
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3. shiroi+w[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:14:55
>>ekianj+a
It's likely useful when you're at the grocery store and can't remember if you need to buy eggs or not.
replies(1): >>Fricke+z3
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4. ArnoVW+A[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:15:29
>>ekianj+a
I imagine the use case is more one of “I’m in the supermarket and I need to know if I have enough xyz left”
replies(1): >>the_ot+Q4
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5. troupo+E[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:16:01
>>ekianj+a
I'm an impulsive shopper, so I often end up at a grocery store with no idea if, for example, I need to buy more eggs, or butter, or...

I'd love to be able to see/know what I have at home while I'm shopping.

But yeah, it's a minor convenience

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6. jona-f+Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:17:36
>>ekianj+a
Opening the door wastes energy. And it seems, mindlessly going to the fridge to see what's inside even though you know exactly whats inside, is a thing many people are doing. So there is an argument to be made, that a camera in the fridge is a useful feature. I'm happy without it.
replies(2): >>aydyn+A6 >>PeterS+gf
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7. varjag+R[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:17:48
>>ekianj+a
We were discussing the apps for the fridges, which naturally work well beyond physical proximity. One of the locations they work fine at is grocery stores.
8. nly+32[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:25:13
>>varjag+(OP)
You can see every corner of the fridge with one camera? How?
9. samast+m2[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:26:54
>>varjag+(OP)
How does this work?

Our fridge is most of the time fairly full so I have a hard time imagining where would I put a camera to get a good overview of its contents. It seems that the best place is about half a meter outside. Even a fisheye would not be able to cover both door and the rest of it.

replies(1): >>varjag+g6
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10. Fricke+z3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:35:32
>>shiroi+w
I rely on a shopping list like my grandma. Another scenario where not innovating is the way to go.
11. billpg+I3[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:36:01
>>varjag+(OP)
That does sound useful. I'd need a camera on each level with the amount I pack onto each shelf.
12. gregma+74[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:39:09
>>varjag+(OP)
Genuinely curious.. how well does this really work, with a real fridge? All the photos I've ever seen are of a staged fridge someone clearly spent an hour or two carefully arranging, and usually between 20% and 50% capacity.

Our fridge is often 75-95% full, and things I can picture this maybe being useful for - sour cream, pickles, condiments - are often pushed to the back or on the door. I have a hard time imagining anything besides mostly "oh look, the milk jug/large bowl of last night's leftovers is blocking the camera's view of this entire shelf".

It also doesn't solve the "is that sour cream at least 1/3 full?" or equally important "is it expired?" problem, which is almost worse, because seeing the sour cream container leads to a false positive, which means I don't buy more despite needing it.

replies(2): >>varjag+X4 >>notato+x22
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13. the_ot+Q4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:43:36
>>ArnoVW+A
These two solutions are more fun.

- make something else

- buy more regardless and make a larger batch

They have fewer points of technical failure; they don’t create security attack surface; they save bandwidth; they get you talking to your friends, family or neighbours more; most food waste biodegrades, so it’s not really “waste”.

replies(2): >>varjag+V6 >>yjftsj+f8
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14. varjag+X4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:44:58
>>gregma+74
You can't see the details certainly, but figuring if something is there or is missing is solving the 80% case.
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15. varjag+g6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:53:05
>>samast+m2
There are 3 cameras inside the door I believe.
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16. aydyn+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:55:32
>>jona-f+Q
You could get a glass door fridge?
replies(1): >>yjftsj+p8
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17. varjag+V6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:57:28
>>the_ot+Q4
Sure, there's a way to talk down anything.
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18. yjftsj+f8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:08:31
>>the_ot+Q4
> most food waste biodegrades, so it’s not really “waste”

If your argument requires saying it's fine to just throw out food, maybe you should reconsider.

replies(2): >>hef198+Da >>the_ot+UT3
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19. yjftsj+p8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:09:29
>>aydyn+A6
That probably wastes more electricity; heat insulators and clear substances don't overlap very much.
replies(1): >>aydyn+ZU1
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20. hef198+Da[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:22:49
>>yjftsj+f8
What litte food is wasted because people buy stuff they alrwady have by forgetting what's in the fridge pales in comparison the necessary effort and resources spent in building and installing cameras un a fridge and run the infrastructure necessary to connect those cameras to a phone over the internet.
replies(2): >>ArnoVW+Fu >>yjftsj+RJ
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21. PeterS+gf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:57:22
>>jona-f+Q
If the budget for the cameras, screens and apps would be spend on extra isolation, the fridge would overall be more ecological. But hey. I understand. Gadgets sell more than quality.
replies(1): >>chongl+Ln
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22. chongl+Ln[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 11:13:47
>>PeterS+gf
If you want a fridge that’s really efficient, you can’t beat a chest/bunker freezer with a thermostat. Refrigerators lose all their efficiency from the vertically mounted doors which allow all the cold air to fall out instantly when you open the door. A chest freezer door is mounted horizontally so the cold air stays trapped inside, even when you open the door. This makes all the difference in the world!
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23. ArnoVW+Fu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 12:11:08
>>hef198+Da
for sure I haven't run the numbers, but I think you may be underestimating the impact of food spillage / waste. Not only is spillage huge in the US [1], but one has to take into account where the loss is.

A pepper that you buy, cook and then throw away represents a considerable investment:

  * you spent energy cooking it
  * your supermarket had to stock / refrigerate 1.x pepper to sell you 1.0, because of spillage
  * the pepper had to be transported from the land, to and fro various logistic centers (sometimes 100's of miles)
  * the farmer had to grow 2.x or even 3.x peppers to sell 1.0, because of esthetics (unfortunately) .. meaning often esticides, heating, etc
I am generally not in favour of IoT, and am not convinced that a camera will correct this issue. But make no mistake: food spillage has a huge impact.

1 : https://www.fao.org/3/bt300e/bt300e.pdf

replies(1): >>the_ot+AT3
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24. yjftsj+RJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 14:01:13
>>hef198+Da
I understand why that sounds like it should be true, but I'm not convinced that it actually works out; I can get an esp32-cam for <$10 with no effort off the shelf, so if the cost to build the thing in is even vaguely close to that then the real cost is going to be dominated by the internet connectivity and phone client side of the equation. I guess it depends how much food we're talking about throwing out and how much it costs, but that strikes me as plausibly within an order of magnitude.
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25. aydyn+ZU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 19:17:14
>>yjftsj+p8
Is that more heat waste than the habit of constantly closing and opening the door to check what's inside?
replies(1): >>yjftsj+Et2
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26. notato+x22[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 19:53:55
>>gregma+74
>Our fridge is often 75-95% full

This is me too (or more realistically, my fridge is 95-105% full) but there's definitely people out there whose fridges are usually mostly empty and a camera could reasonably capture everything in it.

replies(1): >>varjag+2D3
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27. yjftsj+Et2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 21:57:23
>>aydyn+ZU1
I don't have the ability to experimentally verify, but I would think so? A window is going to be there 24/7 and air doesn't actually have that high of a specific heat, so you'd really have to be constantly opening the door for it to come out in favor in my understanding.
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28. varjag+2D3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 07:47:51
>>notato+x22
It helps that our fridge is double the usual volume or so. It gets crowded in the around holidays or with family visiting but usually is manageable.
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29. the_ot+AT3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 10:44:53
>>ArnoVW+Fu
I like this response a lot, despite it opposing my earlier comment. Good thoughts, thanks.

For me, this highlights issues that I think the IoT solutions paint over. The IoT solutions all require the same kinds of industry you're describing here, but for tech. So when those get deployed you have the food industry and the tech industry, but you still have the problem of the mouldy pepper, and the problem of food deserts, and a few other things.

I still think my "you can throw out the excess/mouldy food" and the "solve the problem by communal cooking" are better approaches than the IoT one. But I accept this is intuition and guesswork, and somewhat politically motivated. I'm sure about the politics here, but I accept I'm light on the data. I think the real problems are elsewhere than either the individual mouldy peppers and the IoT; somewhere around deeper, harder issues to do with supporting towns and cities the way we do.

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30. the_ot+UT3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 10:48:09
>>yjftsj+f8
> If your argument requires saying it's fine to just throw out food, maybe you should reconsider.

You're making some kind of assumption and value judgement here but not articulating it. You're using the assumption as leverage to make an emotional push for me to think differently.

What's the assumption and value judgement? Can you weigh that against the biodegradability comment and share more of your thoughts?

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