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[parent] [thread] 71 comments
1. lucubr+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:36:18
It's insane to me how easily Sam's side can spin the board firing him for violating the company's Charter and then not backtracking at all as "Within 24 hours the board has come crawling back, I- er Sam Altman might deign to return if they grovel hard enough and I'm given complete control."

This is really, really clearly incestuous tech media stuff as part of a pressure campaign. Sam is the darlin of tech media and he's clearly instigated this reporting because they're reporting his thoughts and not the Board's in an article that purports to know what the Board is thinking, the investors who aren't happy (the point of a non-profit is that they are allowed to make investors unhappy in pursuit of the greater mission!) have an obvious incentive to join him in this pressure campaign, and then all he needs for "journalism" is one senior employee who's willing to leave for Sam to instead say to the Verge that the Board is reconsidering. Boom, massive pressure campaign and perception of the Board flip flopping without them doing any such thing. If they had done any such thing and there was proof of that, the Verge could have quoted the thoughts of anyone on the Board, stated it had reviewed communications and verified they were genuine, etc.

replies(11): >>manyos+U >>anonyl+Y >>Digory+n1 >>gumbal+P2 >>willse+c4 >>Rivier+l4 >>yowlin+b5 >>bradle+A5 >>mrcwin+E5 >>yreg+t8 >>chatma+T9
2. manyos+U[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:43:16
>>lucubr+(OP)
Very nice skepticism.
replies(1): >>qwerto+f4
3. anonyl+Y[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:43:39
>>lucubr+(OP)
Sam is not just the darling of tech media. He literally

1. Met with every major head of state except for Xi and Putin. He is the face of AI, not just for OpenAI, but for the entire world. The entire AI industry would hate for this to happen. 2. Lead a company from 2 billion valuation to nearly 80 billion in a year.

There is no precedent in startup history to get rid of a CEO at this stage.

replies(9): >>no_wiz+m1 >>ChatGT+p1 >>Trombo+s1 >>svaha1+x1 >>Scaevo+02 >>strike+12 >>Skyy93+32 >>lazyas+0g >>kzrdud+c31
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4. no_wiz+m1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:46:50
>>anonyl+Y
the old saying “first time for everything” holds here, I think.

It was a mandate. 2/3 the board voted in favor of relieving Sam Altman of his obligation to the company. The question now is why and how that plays out. It is clearly what the board wanted

5. Digory+n1[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:46:59
>>lucubr+(OP)
Agreed the article is more about probing the board’s weakness.

But the board seems to have a weak hand. It can decide to disappoint the for profit investors. But it doesn’t own Sam, or the vast majority of the workers, and maybe not much of the know how. And they can walk if the board disappoints them.

The board’s altruism might be great, but it lacks the legal tools to do what it wants, against organized labor backed by unlimited capital.

replies(2): >>Trombo+Q1 >>psbp+w3
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6. ChatGT+p1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:47:04
>>anonyl+Y
He is the face of AI, not just for OpenAI, but for the entire world

Stop making up nonsense please.

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7. Trombo+s1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:47:15
>>anonyl+Y
I guess that's because most "startups" aren't controlled by non-profits.
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8. svaha1+x1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:47:34
>>anonyl+Y
He makes it rain H100s.
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9. Trombo+Q1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:49:26
>>Digory+n1
The board do own Chat-GPT though
replies(1): >>joshsp+m4
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10. Scaevo+02[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:50:12
>>anonyl+Y
He dined with Xi just a few days ago. https://youtu.be/lKNwoEm-R3E
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11. strike+12[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:50:20
>>anonyl+Y
This is a dumb take, most of the general population don't even know who Sam Altman is.
replies(3): >>x86x87+13 >>LeafIt+d3 >>JakeAl+W6
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12. Skyy93+32[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:50:23
>>anonyl+Y
This is very US-centric thinking. For me he is just a CEO and completely exchangeable. The only thing I really remember is that the last thing he did was crawl in front of the EU and ask them not to regulate his AI business too much.

He did none of the research that fuels OpenAIs ambitions and future prospects, thats mostly done by people like Sutskever, Radford and many more brilliant scientist.

replies(5): >>andy99+14 >>yowlin+35 >>bezalm+Z7 >>threes+Q9 >>ipaddr+Ze
13. gumbal+P2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:54:16
>>lucubr+(OP)
> incestuous tech media stuff as part of a pressure campaign

The same media that promoted the skizoid idea that agi is around the corner and blew ai out of proportion.

The same media that would not hesitate to do character assassinations of people opposing altman.

The media is corrupt and incompetent. To be replaced soon by the monster they created.

replies(1): >>JakeAl+n6
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14. x86x87+13[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:55:46
>>strike+12
You can argue your point without calling the take dumb.
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15. LeafIt+d3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:56:47
>>strike+12
You are 100% right. Even those who know of his meetings with heads of state outside of the tech community probably just know that it was ChatGPT company doing it, if even that. They wouldn’t know his name.

Though I think it’s best to refrain from calling something a “dumb take”.

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16. psbp+w3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:59:08
>>Digory+n1
I'd like to hear more about the board's argument before deciding that this was "virtuous board vs greedy capitalist". The motivations for both sides is still unclear.
replies(1): >>erosen+j6
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17. andy99+14[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:02:24
>>Skyy93+32
> completely exchangeable

Apparently not

18. willse+c4[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:03:37
>>lucubr+(OP)
> This is really, really clearly incestuous tech media stuff as part of a pressure campaign.

There’s no evidence of that, only your assumptions. Lots of comments from knowledgeable folks outside the media and who couldn’t care less about a “pressure campaign”, even if it did exist, think the board was clueless and got duped into making a huge mistake with the coup.

replies(1): >>dragon+z7
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19. qwerto+f4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:04:00
>>manyos+U
Yeah, it's good to have such voices around.
replies(1): >>brooks+ga
20. Rivier+l4[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:05:45
>>lucubr+(OP)
I honestly don't know what you're talking about. This article and The Verge one just describe the likely reality of the situation.

Sam Altman was fired. 4 other key people quit and it seems more will follow and join Sam's new venture. This outcome would be a disaster for Microsoft, for other OpenAI investors and for OpenAI. So the board is, per multiple sources, talking with Sam Altman to return. The board declined to comment and is free to clarify any inaccuracies.

There's no need for a spin, the board has miscalculated and got itself in a bad spot.

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21. joshsp+m4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:05:47
>>Trombo+Q1
That’s not only trivial to replace with enough funding for training, but ChatGPT is barely a 0.1 release. Everything after is where the big money is.
replies(3): >>himara+o5 >>erosen+v5 >>p1esk+G5
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22. yowlin+35[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:10:29
>>Skyy93+32
> For me he is just a CEO and completely exchangeable.

Are you part of OpenAI governance, or any company's governance structure? If not, does it really matter whether someone is exchangeable or not for you?

23. yowlin+b5[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:11:39
>>lucubr+(OP)
There's nothing insane at all. The board has the freedom to make their choices, but they must own the consequences of those choices. This appears to be a choice they made which has had obvious consequences they miscalculated. Having to walk it back to some degree would prove their inability to effectively plan and govern.
replies(1): >>lucubr+9A
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24. himara+o5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:12:51
>>joshsp+m4
It's not trivial given current supply bottlenecks, not to mention research expertise.
replies(2): >>draken+fa >>initpl+2i
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25. erosen+v5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:14:01
>>joshsp+m4
First mover advantage and Microsoft integration is nothing to sneeze at.
replies(1): >>joshsp+lt
26. bradle+A5[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:14:39
>>lucubr+(OP)
the point of a non-profit is that they are allowed to make investors unhappy in pursuit of the greater mission

A non-profit isn’t supposed to have investors. This structure should never have been allowed in the first place (nor IKEA.)

replies(4): >>lucubr+d6 >>goodlu+k7 >>dragon+G7 >>kzrdud+W21
27. mrcwin+E5[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:15:11
>>lucubr+(OP)
Welcome to The Verge. This is the same website that pasted “reporting by Alex Heath” on the original article - which was literally just regurgitating the board’s press release and pasting in some tweets. Reporting, huh?

Good job if you can get it.

replies(1): >>lucubr+66
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28. p1esk+G5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:15:22
>>joshsp+m4
trivial to replace

And yet no one has been able to do that since gpt4 was released.

replies(1): >>threes+j9
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29. lucubr+66[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:19:21
>>mrcwin+E5
I don't mind the Verge, I don't agree with everything they've written but I generally like their coverage. My criticism is specific to this situation and the cult of personality in tech media around Sam Altman.
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30. lucubr+d6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:20:21
>>bradle+A5
Which is why investors that signed on got a giant warning saying that the Board could choose to be unprofitable if they wanted and that the mission came first, so they should view their investment as a donation.
replies(3): >>cthalu+A6 >>bradle+F6 >>dpweb+R9
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31. erosen+j6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:20:53
>>psbp+w3
Seems unusual for a nonprofit not to have a written investigative report or performance review conducted by a law firm or auditor. Similar to what happened with Stanford's ousted president but more expedited if matters are more pressing.
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32. JakeAl+n6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:21:20
>>gumbal+P2
"To be replaced soon by the monster they created."

Niiice.

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33. cthalu+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:23:02
>>lucubr+d6
What we're seeing is that (predictably) the investors have decided that they don't care that they agreed with it and they don't want to lose out on their investment.

What remains to be seen is just how closely the board holds the charter to their hearts and whether the governance structure that was built is strong enough to withstand this.

replies(2): >>lumost+r8 >>brooks+A9
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34. bradle+F6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:24:04
>>lucubr+d6
A giant warning doesn’t make it better. Non profit or for profit—-pick one and stick to it.
replies(1): >>dragon+68
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35. JakeAl+W6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:26:14
>>strike+12
I'm okay with you calling it a dumb take. Try "unsophisticated" to pacify the sensitive, or "mentally underdeveloped," if it gets you grief.
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36. goodlu+k7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:29:07
>>bradle+A5
Whether it will ultimately have been allowed is yet to be seen.
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37. dragon+z7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:31:24
>>willse+c4
> > This is really, really clearly incestuous tech media stuff as part of a pressure campaign.

> There’s no evidence of that

The leaks themselves whether or not based in fact are evidence of that. The only reason for someone in a position to be taken credibly reporting the information contained in either this Verge article or the Bloomberg article with a similarly sourced but slightly different narrative, to take that information to the media, whether or not it is true, is to use public pressure to attempt to shape the direction of events.

EDIT: To be clear, its evidence of the "pressure campaign" part; to the extent that the "incestuous tech media" part has any substantive meaning, I'm not sure its evidence of that.

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38. dragon+G7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:32:23
>>bradle+A5
> A non-profit isn’t supposed to have investors.

The non-profit doesn't have investors. OpenAI Global, LLC isn't the non-profit, its a for-profit over which the non-profit has complete governance control.

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39. bezalm+Z7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:34:44
>>Skyy93+32
“Completely exchangeable” Obviously people are not fungible, replacing one person with another will never provide the exact same results. The question in each case then is how different would the results be, and would the replacement be better or worse? For a very simple job, perhaps pressing a single button, the results may only be subtly different. But what happens when it’s a complex job with no right and wrong answers, where work input is affected by output (like a chaotic system), spanning multiple areas of influence? The work output of the individual changes drastically, and just like in a chaotic system, the results to the organization vary increasingly over time. Nobody is fungible, but of all people, decision makers like politicians, CEOs etc are the butterfly wings flapping in New York that causes a cyclone in Japan. The only real way to evaluate if their impact is likely to be positive is looking at previous results. Due to rarity of top performers and importance to systems, they have negotiation power.

Dependable leaders really do have that much value to their organizations. This is similar to why in critical areas like medicine, old-and-dependable things are valued over new and shiny. The older things have lower risk, and a strong track record. That added dependability is more important than being the newer “better” but riskier option. Back to this topic, how many CEOs with track records managing 80 billion revenue AI organizations are ready to replace Altman? Because Open AI is well ahead in the field, they don’t need big risky changes, they need to reliably stay the course.

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40. dragon+68[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:35:20
>>bradle+F6
The distinction between the two is whether an organization returns funds to investors. OpenAI, Inc. does not. OpenAI Global LLC does, one of those investors being OpenAI, Inc. (well, indirectly, there's another holding company in between.)
replies(1): >>bradle+0b
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41. lumost+r8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:39:09
>>cthalu+A6
MSFT likely has the option to claw back some of their money - they could also cease providing Openai gpu’s. At the extreme, they could do so tomorrow based on their perception of the contract dispute. Although such action would risk reputational damage to MSFT.

At a minimum, taking your largest supplier and customer for a ride is probably a bad idea.

replies(3): >>cthalu+z9 >>s1arti+ca >>helsin+lb
42. yreg+t8[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:39:13
>>lucubr+(OP)
> violating the company's Charter

What did he violate specifically?

replies(2): >>brooks+5a >>lucubr+WB
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43. threes+j9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:44:12
>>p1esk+G5
That's only because the key players have no reason to compete.

They don't want to run a developer/enterprise ChatGPT platform.

Google cares about Search, Apple about Siri, Meta about VR/Ads. But those three are interesting heavily in their own LLMs which at some point may better OpenAI.

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44. cthalu+z9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:46:07
>>lumost+r8
It wouldn't be a good idea in a regular business, for sure.

But non-profits aren't a regular business and their ultimate obligation is to their charter. Depending on just what the level of misalignment was here, it's possible that the company becoming nonviable due to terminating Altman is serving the charter more closely than keeping him on board.

No one posting here has enough detail to really understand what is going on, but we do know the structure of OpenAI and the operating agreement for the for-profit LLC make it a mistake to view the company from the lens as we would a regular for-profit company.

replies(1): >>stale2+aq
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45. brooks+A9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:46:25
>>cthalu+A6
Agreeing that the board has a right to do something does NOT waive one’s right to complain that it is a mistake to actually do it.

Never been a fan of the “you can’t complain about any bad outcome you agreed could happen” argument.

replies(1): >>cthalu+cc
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46. threes+Q9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:47:52
>>Skyy93+32
> This is very US-centric thinking

I am not American and have no idea what you are talking about.

Sam Altman channeled what was great research into a dominant $100b business in record time.

That is not trivial and not every CEO can do that.

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47. dpweb+R9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:47:58
>>lucubr+d6
Donors like that threaten to pull their money when you don’t behave. It’s why they donate. There is no such thing as a donation.
48. chatma+T9[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:48:03
>>lucubr+(OP)
While this is an insightful perspective, it doesn't change the fact that the board is revealed as incompetent. Either they made a mistake in firing him and are now walking it back (while yielding so much leverage that Altman can condition his return on the resignation of everyone who voted to fire him), or they have such little credibility that some standard-practice media collusion has created sufficient pressure to change their optimal strategy, i.e. force their hand.

If they do nothing, then public perception harms their ability to raise further capital, and employees leave for Altman's new company. If they cave to the pressure (despite that being objectively the financially right decision), they lose their board seats and Sam comes back, proving they overplayed their hand when they fired him. They're basically in a lose/lose situation, even if this article is sourced from entirely biased and fabricated information. And that's exactly what reveals them as incompetent.

Their mistake was making a move while considering only the technicalities of their voting power, and ignoring the credibility they had to make it. Machiavelli is rolling in his grave...

replies(1): >>lucubr+MA
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49. brooks+5a[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:49:16
>>yreg+t8
Any why didn’t the board cite these violations?
replies(2): >>dragon+xa >>lucubr+oC
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50. s1arti+ca[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:50:09
>>lumost+r8
most of the money likely wasnt paid, and is based on milestones and future returns. I imagine MSFT has some solid licensing bought with their initial payments.
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51. draken+fa[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:50:35
>>himara+o5
I don't feel like compute for pretraining the model was a huge constraint?

The supply bottlenecks have been around commercializing the ChatGPT product at scale.

But pretraining the underlying model I don't think was on the same order of magnitude, right?

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52. brooks+ga[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:50:45
>>qwerto+f4
I’m skeptical they provide any value at all.
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53. dragon+xa[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:53:11
>>brooks+5a
The board didn't claim there were violations, it claimed he wasn't fully candid with them and that they had lost confidence in his leadership. "Violations of the charter" was something invented by the upthread commenter.
replies(1): >>lucubr+MC
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54. bradle+0b[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:56:04
>>dragon+68
These details are totally irrelevant to the argument and are part of the chart that’s floating around everywhere.

Of course it’s legal, the comment was that it shouldn’t be.

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55. helsin+lb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:57:53
>>lumost+r8
The damage would be far more than reputational - Microsoft are starting to roll out “AI with everything” on most of their money-making products. That’s all provided by OpenAI, they can’t just pause for 6+ months and re-implement it with a new provider.
replies(1): >>lumost+Oe1
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56. cthalu+cc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:02:11
>>brooks+A9
If this had been presented as a bad outcome or even an improbable one I would agree. And of course you can just complain and do whatever you want in general within the boundaries of the law, free speech, etc.

But if you sign an agreement saying you understand you should treat your investments more like donations and that everything is secondary to the goals of the non-profit and then are upset that your goals were not placed in higher priority than the charter of the non-profit, I'm going to reserve the right to think you're a hypocrite.

replies(1): >>brooks+Du
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57. ipaddr+Ze[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:18:22
>>Skyy93+32
His star power is much higher than you give him credit for. It's like saying you can replace Brad Pitt with an average actor because the writers are the ones responsible for the script.

You lose other actors who only joined to work with Brad for one. You lose part of your audience and you lose distribution and press opportunities.

If it wasn't for Sam pushing for a version that became gpt3.5 and the popularity that followed and most recently gpt 4 push we would still be waiting for the brilliant people . Google was way ahead in this space but failed to release anything.

As a developer I understand belittling the business side as providing little value but as someone who has tried to get the masses to adopt my software my respect for their ability to solve non-technical problems has grown.

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58. lazyas+0g[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:23:24
>>anonyl+Y
You seem to massively overestimate “the whole world” on their familiarity with anything about tech. Even leaving aside the billions who aren’t reading the news - I vividly remember the time a few years ago in Australia when a casual friend, recently out of high school, was shocked to learn that Microsoft makes the Xbox.
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59. initpl+2i[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:35:06
>>himara+o5
The control of the supply si with Microsoft, who are likely falling on Sam’s side here.
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60. stale2+aq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:31:34
>>cthalu+z9
We can view it from any lens.

In any lens if microsoft pulls their GPUs and funding, then OpenAI is through.

No, pissing microsoft off in this situation is not a good idea. Because microsoft can shut the whole organization down.

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61. joshsp+lt[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:51:50
>>erosen+v5
For sure.

But if Altman has a new venture that takes first mover advantage on a whole different playing field MS could easily get left in the dust.

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62. brooks+Du[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:59:46
>>cthalu+cc
“Hypocrite” does not mean what you think it does.

Microsoft nor anyone else said they deeply believed in and prioritized OpenAI’s charter over their own interests. They might have agreed to it, and they must abide by agreements, but this is not a case of claiming one set of principles while acting contrary to them.

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63. lucubr+9A[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:44:47
>>yowlin+b5
It might, if that had actually happened. There is not good evidence that this has actually happened, and it's just a fact that Sam + investors are going on a massive pressure campaign to try to regain control that they are not legally entitled to, including a media blitz.

Moreover, there is an impartiality issue here in the tech press. A lot of the tech press disagree with the OpenAI Charter and think that Sam's vision of OpenAI as basically Google but providing consumer AI products is superior to the Charter, which they view in incredibly derogatory terms ("people who think Terminator is real"). That's fine, people can disagree on these important issues!

But I think as a journalist it's not engaging fairly with the topic to be on Sam's political side here and not even attempt to fairly describe the cause of the dispute, which is the non-profit Board accusing Sam Altman of violating the OpenAI charter which they are legally obligated to uphold. This is particularly important because if you actually read the OpenAI Charter, it's really clear to see why they've made that decision! The Charter clearly bans prioritising commercialisation and profit seeking, and demands the central focus be building an AGI, and I don't think a reasonable observer can look at OpenAI Dev Day and say it's not reasonable to view that as proof that OpenAI is no longer following its charter.

Basically, if you disagree with the idea of the non-profit and its Charter, think the whole thing is science-fiction bunk and the people who believe in it are idiots, I think you should argue that instead of framing all of this as "It's a coup" without even disclosing that you don't support the non-profit Charter in the first place.

replies(1): >>yowlin+TK5
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64. lucubr+MA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:50:31
>>chatma+T9
...or they don't respond to these pressure tactics, continue talking to their employees to ameliorate legitimate concerns, and accept that some of Sam's hires will go to join him. OpenAI's core (remembering that OpenAI's Charter doesn't demand it makes cool consumer/developer AI products, it demands OpenAI build AGI safely) is not the ChatGPT product team or admin, it is the research team that Ilya leads (or lead until a month ago when Sam tried to sideline him). The company isn't going to leave to follow Sam, or at least the scientists and engineers aren't. They've lost some technical leads that Sam hired and will probably lose more, but it's worth it to make sure that OpenAI is actually following its Charter.
replies(1): >>chatma+FB
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65. chatma+FB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:56:14
>>lucubr+MA
> continue talking to their employees to ameliorate legitimate concerns, and accept that some of Sam's hires will go to join him

This is wishful thinking. If an employee is inclined to follow the innovation, it's clear where they'll go.

But otherwise, the point you raise is a good one: this is about the charter of the board. Many of us are presuming a financial incentive, but the structure of the company means they might actually be incentivized to stop the continued development of the technology if they think it poses a risk to humanity. Now, I personally find this to be hogwash, but it is a legitimate argument for why the board might actually be right in acting apparently irrationally.

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66. lucubr+WB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:57:56
>>yreg+t8
"Our primary fiduciary duty is to humanity. We anticipate needing to marshal substantial resources to fulfill our mission, but will always diligently act to minimize conflicts of interest among our employees and stakeholders that could compromise broad benefit."

The Board has the power to determine whether Sam is fulfilling his fiduciary duty and whether his conflicts of interest (WorldCoin, Humane AI, etc) compromise broad benefit.

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67. lucubr+oC[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 05:01:27
>>brooks+5a
I wasn't clear enough that I was talking about the real reasons for the dismissal; I think the lack of candour was probably a real event, but was functionally just an excuse. There has been heaps of reporting from inside OpenAI that this was a dispute over AI safety, the values of the Charter, etc. Here's what you can find in the press release itself:

"OpenAI was deliberately structured to advance our mission: to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all humanity. The board remains fully committed to serving this mission. We are grateful for Sam’s many contributions to the founding and growth of OpenAI. At the same time, we believe new leadership is necessary as we move forward. As the leader of the company’s research, product, and safety functions, Mira is exceptionally qualified to step into the role of interim CEO. We have the utmost confidence in her ability to lead OpenAI during this transition period."

"OpenAI was founded as a non-profit in 2015 with the core mission of ensuring that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. In 2019, OpenAI restructured to ensure that the company could raise capital in pursuit of this mission, while preserving the nonprofit's mission, governance, and oversight. The majority of the board is independent, and the independent directors do not hold equity in OpenAI. While the company has experienced dramatic growth, it remains the fundamental governance responsibility of the board to advance OpenAI’s mission and preserve the principles of its Charter."

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68. lucubr+MC[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 05:05:20
>>dragon+xa
There is a bunch of independent reporting citing sources inside OpenAI that the central dispute is over the principles of the Charter, and while no one is clear on the lack of candour thing my view is that it's just an excuse, there was probably a real incident(s) but it wouldn't have been fireable if not for the core dispute about the Charter. They did explicitly re-affirm the Charter in their announcement of Sam's dismissal:

"OpenAI was founded as a non-profit in 2015 with the core mission of ensuring that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. In 2019, OpenAI restructured to ensure that the company could raise capital in pursuit of this mission, while preserving the nonprofit's mission, governance, and oversight. The majority of the board is independent, and the independent directors do not hold equity in OpenAI. While the company has experienced dramatic growth, it remains the fundamental governance responsibility of the board to advance OpenAI’s mission and preserve the principles of its Charter."

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69. kzrdud+W21[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 09:31:19
>>bradle+A5
I think in IKEA's case, they rapidly restructured to avoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_funds which was a rather short-lived political experiment.
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70. kzrdud+c31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 09:34:07
>>anonyl+Y
I think I agree with your facts as stated, but the absurd part of it is that a single guy was selected as "the face of AI". This happens all the time (and it's wrong): focus on the most prominent people becomes a feedback loop that takes it to ridiculous proportions.
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71. lumost+Oe1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 11:23:30
>>helsin+lb
There is no world in which MSFT ponied up 10 Billion without an escrow of the model. Depending on the partnership terms and next steps of OpenAI - this could be a significant breach.

Given the complex org structure - I wouldn’t be surprised if the non-profit (or at least it’s board) wasn’t fully aware of the contract terms/implications.

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72. yowlin+TK5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:41:56
>>lucubr+9A
> Basically, if you disagree with the idea of the non-profit and its Charter, think the whole thing is science-fiction bunk and the people who believe in it are idiots, I think you should argue that instead of framing all of this as "It's a coup" without even disclosing that you don't support the non-profit Charter in the first place.

I think you might have better luck grasping the situation if you put a little bit more effort into understanding it rather than jumping to put words in the mouths of others. Nobody said whether they support the non-profit charter or not in the first place, and as far as the phenomena of what's happening right now, the non-profit charter has nothing to do with it.

550 of 700 OpenAI employees have just told the board to resign. Altman is going to MSFT and taking his org with him. Regardless of what the board says, who do you think really has the power here -- the person who has and already had the full support of the org he built around him, or a frankly amateurish board that is completely unequipped for executing on a highly public, high stakes governance task presented in front of it?

Unfortunately, not only can you cannot charter public opinion, but those who try often see it backfiring by making clear their air of moral superiority rather than leaning on their earned mandate to govern the rank and file they are supposed to represent. The board, and it seems you, will simply be learning that lesson the hard way.

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