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1. no_wiz+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:11:02
Not for the better why?

Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI and investors aren’t even saying what the problem is. Clearly the board feels he was the wrong person for the job.

I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble. Let this play out and see how it evolves

replies(9): >>sebzim+Q >>wilg+U >>mupuff+k1 >>karmas+82 >>bnralt+x2 >>qwytw+bg >>jfoste+9l >>ergoco+Js >>wesley+EO
2. sebzim+Q[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:15:39
>>no_wiz+(OP)
24 hours ago OpenAI fired their CEO in the most childish possible way. Now they are trying to get him back.

This is embarassing for OpenAI no matter how you slice it.

replies(2): >>x86x87+l1 >>sainez+yh
3. wilg+U[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:15:59
>>no_wiz+(OP)
I think most people don’t think it was obvious Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI.
4. mupuff+k1[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:17:41
>>no_wiz+(OP)
It's not only Sam, also Greg and a few other engineers have already resigned (and one can assume more to follow)
replies(2): >>no_wiz+D2 >>zer0c0+0h
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5. x86x87+l1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:17:43
>>sebzim+Q
While the unceremonious firing was bad I am sure this could have gone down way worse than this. Way way worse.
replies(2): >>maxlam+ph >>okdood+eQ
6. karmas+82[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:22:16
>>no_wiz+(OP)
Not like the board, except Ilya has some real capital or expertise to convince everyone this is the right decision.

If they do, it is the perfect time to speak out loud, not letting this news bubbling up to the front page and everyone is talking about how disastrous they were?

What is this board waiting then? The weekend??

The board isn’t bullet proof and they are not god. They can fire Sam yes, it won’t stopping people thinking this is stupid or this won’t do more harm than good to OpenAI

replies(1): >>no_wiz+B8
7. bnralt+x2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:24:54
>>no_wiz+(OP)
> Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI

It's quite possible that he wasn't the best fit, and that the board is an even worse fit. Judging by the behavior of the board, it's hard to see them being a good fit for the company.

replies(1): >>no_wiz+V4
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8. no_wiz+D2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:25:26
>>mupuff+k1
Maybe, or maybe he was in fact unpopular among the majority and you are seeing Altman supporters leave. It happens.

There is nothing to indicate that this bleeds OpenAI more generally. The rank and file aren’t as fire as I’m aware aren’t resigning en masse.

Executives come and go. Show me why these people matter so much that OpenAI has no future then we can talk. It’s in fighting that became public and I’m certain people are pulling whatever strings they have on this, but I don’t see objective evidence that these people make OpenAI successful.

This needs to play out

replies(1): >>mupuff+M5
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9. no_wiz+V4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:40:09
>>bnralt+x2
Based on the firing? Because that’s all I think we (the public) have any insight into.

I’m saying there is a reason this happened and 2/3 the board agreed. It needs to play out further for us to see if there is a problem here or not, honestly.

I find it hard to believe you can effectively muster a mandate worth of votes based on opinion alone

replies(1): >>lumost+Gl
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10. mupuff+M5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 00:47:01
>>no_wiz+D2
Rank and file perhaps aren't yet resigning en masse, but I would be extremely surprised if there won't be a bunch that jumps to the new ship solely because that puts them higher up the totem pole.

Now will that be another 3 or another 30, time will tell.

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11. no_wiz+B8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 01:03:43
>>karmas+82
Perhaps they are smoothing things out with some key stakeholders after the fact, and will have more to say Monday regarding all this. I doubt they aren’t now doing some amount of information level setting with people now that the decision was made
12. qwytw+bg[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:00:36
>>no_wiz+(OP)
> I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble

Even if we assume that's true, wouldn't the somewhat incompetent and seemingly unnecessarily dramatic way they handled not be a concerning sign?

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13. zer0c0+0h[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:05:08
>>mupuff+k1
Three engineers isn’t a lot honestly after such a stunt. I’d assumed there would more loyal folks, but maybe most are really in for the mission.

The next couple of weeks will tell.

replies(1): >>lumost+zm
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14. maxlam+ph[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:07:53
>>x86x87+l1
How?
replies(2): >>x86x87+Eo >>shapef+r11
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15. sainez+yh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:08:53
>>sebzim+Q
> Now they are trying to get him back.

OpenAI has never claimed they want Sam back. The article claims OpenAI's investors want him back.

I will agree that OpenAI could have done a better job of letting him go if there truly were irreconcilable differences.

16. jfoste+9l[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:29:13
>>no_wiz+(OP)
Perhaps part of the problem is that when some people say OpenAI they mean the non-profit parent of the for-profit, and when other people say OpenAI they mean the for-profit subsidiary of the non-profit.
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17. lumost+Gl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:32:15
>>no_wiz+V4
As others have pointed out, this board has no skin in the game. They just voted out founders who do have skin in the game (although through roundabout means). It’s a very tough sell that this board is doing the right thing.
replies(2): >>riraro+gz >>no_wiz+iz
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18. lumost+zm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:36:11
>>zer0c0+0h
Bear in mind - most folks are loyal to a paycheck and their best estimate of future paychecks/value. Spot witting because your friend/boss got fired wrongly… is unlikely to maximize either of those unless you were already planning to resign in the next few weeks.

Now, do a bunch of Openai peeps interview at Meta/Google/Amazon/Anthropic/Cohere over the next few months? Certainly.

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19. x86x87+Eo[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:50:26
>>maxlam+ph
off the top of my head:

prolonged public exchange between sama and the board _before_ any firings where they throw accusations at each other followed by microsoft pulling out, followed by people quitting and immediately resulting in a chatgpt outage. followed by the firing of the ceo

20. ergoco+Js[view] [source] 2023-11-19 03:17:07
>>no_wiz+(OP)
They accused Sam of lying in a public statement when they don't have an evidence to back it up.

Those 4 people are not fit to run any company.

Not a single person asked: well hey what if somebody asks for an evidence of lying? Do we have one?

replies(1): >>Keyfra+BI
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21. riraro+gz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:01:04
>>lumost+Gl
Just to clarify, one founder on the board, Ilya, has skin in the game, and was the reason behind Sam's firing.

He convinced other members of the board that Sam was not the right person for their mission. The original statement implies that Ilya expected Greg to stay at OpenAI, but Ilya seems to have miscalculated his backing.

This appears to be a power struggle between the original nonprofit vision of Ilya, and Sam's strategy to accelerate productionization and attract more powerful actors and investors.

https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255

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22. no_wiz+iz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:01:12
>>lumost+Gl
Founders come and go. Doesn’t always make them a good. he wasn’t the sole founder either, it was founded by a consortium of people
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23. Keyfra+BI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 05:19:37
>>ergoco+Js
We don't know any of that. Only things we know are statement from the board and statement from Altman that he was caught by surprise and statement from Microsoft they're supporting new CEO and few of the people that left. That's all we know for sure. Everything else are rumors and PR spins for now. If they have some evidence of what they said in statement about lying we just don't know.
replies(1): >>ergoco+XE1
24. wesley+EO[view] [source] 2023-11-19 06:21:12
>>no_wiz+(OP)
Why did the board fire Sam in such a weird way? It shows that they are the wrong people for the job. If they wanted to get rid of him they should have done a better job than alienating everyone at the company.
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25. okdood+eQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 06:39:24
>>x86x87+l1
> unceremonious firing

What's a ceremonious firing look like? Serious question.

replies(2): >>paulmd+I31 >>lordna+S31
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26. shapef+r11[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 08:34:03
>>maxlam+ph
Could have done it with poop emojis on twitter
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27. paulmd+I31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 08:57:17
>>okdood+eQ
compare raja koduri to brian krzanich

the former went on garden leave for 6 months (actually even before the Vega launch) to make a movie with his brother, and then resigned to “spend more time with his family”, before popping up again a month later at intel. That’s what it looks like when they want you to go away but they don’t want to make a big scene over it.

the latter fucked up so badly the board found a reason to kick him out without a golden parachute etc, despite the official reason (dating another employee) being something that was widely known for years, other than being a technical no-no/bad idea in general. he wasn’t kicked out because of that, he was kicked out for the combination of endless fab woes, spectre/meltdown, and bad business/product decisions that let AMD get the traction to become a serious competitor again. That’s what it looks like when the board is absolutely furious and pushes whatever buttons inflict the most pain on you.

Ironic that it’s a bit of an auto-antonym (auto-antoidiom?), it’s ceremonious when they want you to go away quietly and it’s unceremonious when they publicly kick your ass to the curb so hard you’ve got boot marks for a week.

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28. lordna+S31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 08:59:41
>>okdood+eQ
Isn't this a military thing? "Honorable discharge" or something like that? Bunch of people at a ceremony, maybe a speech about the person's contribution, they get given a medal, family is there in their nicest clothes?
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29. ergoco+XE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 14:32:14
>>Keyfra+BI
The board can easily back up their public claim. They don't.

Even the email to their own employees says it is a irreconcilable difference. Nothing about lying.

I don't think it is reasonable to go with "we don't know". It is more like: "it is crucial to back up your claim. Still, you don't.".

replies(1): >>Keyfra+QI2
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30. Keyfra+QI2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 19:47:49
>>ergoco+XE1
I don't disagree. It's just maybe they have something they haven't shared or maybe they don't. We don't know (yet).
replies(1): >>ergoco+2s3
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31. ergoco+2s3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 23:36:44
>>Keyfra+QI2
The fact that they didn't follow up with evidence immediately shows that they are incompetent.

You don't just accuse someone of committing a heinous crime and stay silent. What is the detail?

replies(1): >>Keyfra+NK3
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32. Keyfra+NK3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 01:34:07
>>ergoco+2s3
True, but are they obliged to provide all details to the public?
replies(1): >>ergoco+Yc4
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33. ergoco+Yc4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 05:29:17
>>Keyfra+NK3
No, but they are also not obliged to accuse Sam of lying either. But here we are.

You think accusing someone of lying in a public statement and don't follow up is competent?

replies(1): >>Keyfra+xY4
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34. Keyfra+xY4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:00:01
>>ergoco+Yc4
I agree with you
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