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[parent] [thread] 62 comments
1. jurgen+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-17 20:40:19
Yes, very likely Altman has done something _very_ wrong, and the board wants to maintain plausible deniability.
replies(7): >>saliag+i >>rchaud+k2 >>lumost+84 >>rococo+r4 >>resour+e8 >>reneci+P8 >>Iv+cc
2. saliag+i[view] [source] 2023-11-17 20:40:59
>>jurgen+(OP)
We all know what. HN moderators are deleting all related comments.

Edit: dang is right, sorry y’all

replies(6): >>p1esk+n2 >>parthd+E2 >>dang+V2 >>ro_bit+j3 >>quenix+X3 >>ignora+88
3. rchaud+k2[view] [source] 2023-11-17 20:45:34
>>jurgen+(OP)
I would have thought that being CEO of Worldcoin would have been bad enough optics-wise from having him take a top role at a serious company.
replies(2): >>electr+W7 >>squidb+68
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4. p1esk+n2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:45:42
>>saliag+i
Know what?
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5. parthd+E2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:46:29
>>saliag+i
> We all know what

Genuinely curious, what is it?

replies(1): >>wahnfr+C5
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6. dang+V2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:47:18
>>saliag+i
HN moderators aren't deleting any comments. (We only do that when the author asks us to, and almost never when the comment has replies.)

If you're referring to some other form of moderation that you think is bad or wrong, please supply links so that readers can make their minds up for themselves.

replies(1): >>cubefo+by3
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7. ro_bit+j3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:49:04
>>saliag+i
Showdead shows one comment that doesn't really bring anything of substance. How many comments can a mod even delete on a 10 minute old post (post origin to the time you wrote your comment)
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8. quenix+X3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:51:44
>>saliag+i
What is it?
9. lumost+84[view] [source] 2023-11-17 20:52:02
>>jurgen+(OP)
On paper, Sam Altman would have made everyone on the board billionaires. For them to vote him out in this manner indicates that he must have done something egregious to jeopardize that.

Lying on P&L, stock sale agreements, or turning down an acquisition offer under difficult circumstances seems likely.

replies(5): >>iandan+Y4 >>orra+05 >>narrat+W5 >>Siddha+Y5 >>jb1991+47
10. rococo+r4[view] [source] 2023-11-17 20:53:07
>>jurgen+(OP)
Somewhat hidden beneath the huge headline of Altman being kicked out is that Brockman (chairman) is also out. Which could indicate something more systemically wrong than just a typical "CEO did something bad" situation.

> As a part of this transition, Greg Brockman will be stepping down as chairman of the board and will remain in his role at the company, reporting to the CEO.

replies(5): >>harryh+i6 >>willia+t6 >>coffee+P6 >>alvis+X6 >>fragme+qc
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11. iandan+Y4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:55:26
>>lumost+84
As noted in the release: "The majority of the board is independent, and the independent directors do not hold equity in OpenAI."
replies(1): >>nonfam+y7
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12. orra+05[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:55:35
>>lumost+84
> On paper, Sam Altman would have made everyone on the board billionaires.

I know OpenAI in recent years forgot it's a non profit with particular aims, but:

> The majority of the board is independent, and the independent directors do not hold equity in OpenAI.

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13. wahnfr+C5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:57:40
>>parthd+E2
Sexual abuse allegations from his sister.
replies(2): >>ilikeh+X7 >>Manuel+fG
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14. narrat+W5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:58:36
>>lumost+84
Elon was very upset that somehow a non-profit that he donated $100 million to suddenly turned into a for profit. I would not be surprised if there was something not totally candid with regards to how that went down.
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15. Siddha+Y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 20:58:41
>>lumost+84
Could it be the allegations by his sister??

https://twitter.com/phuckfilosophy/status/163570439893983232...

replies(4): >>termin+g7 >>fallin+n7 >>zoklet+09 >>alvis+rc
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16. harryh+i6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:00:06
>>rococo+r4
Brockman is off the board but not fired. Which is weird right? You'd think if he was involved in whatever the really bad thing is then he would be fired.
replies(3): >>foota+E7 >>floxy+Z9 >>sulam+Zc
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17. willia+t6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:01:01
>>rococo+r4
Which implies a coup. Four voting against two.

And it could be for any reason, even purely ethical like, “we don’t want to license this technology to better sell products to tweens”.

replies(2): >>bushba+y9 >>b112+ub
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18. coffee+P6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:02:28
>>rococo+r4
There was no AI - it was just interns answering questions on the site known as ChatGPT
replies(1): >>sfe22+za
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19. alvis+X6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:03:00
>>rococo+r4
Remember that Greg Brockman is a co-founder of OpenAI, and like Sam Altman, he is a main driving force behind the scene. Now both are gone. There must be something really really seriously wrong.
replies(2): >>erupt7+3d >>knd775+Wg
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20. jb1991+47[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:03:52
>>lumost+84
Please do not spout hyperbole on HN, and avoid spreading disinformation and engaging in uneducated speculation. You can visit Reddit if that is your style of participation.
replies(1): >>wholin+Xf
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21. termin+g7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:04:40
>>Siddha+Y5
That was back in March, which is pretty much 100 years ago
replies(1): >>tivert+0k
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22. fallin+n7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:05:04
>>Siddha+Y5
Wouldn't take 8 months to hit, and I wouldn't be hearing about it from your comment if there was enough media attention to oust a CEO for PR.
replies(1): >>yunwal+Tn
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23. nonfam+y7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:06:04
>>iandan+Y4
In fact, I believe Altman was the only member of the board that held equity in OpenAI. There was some vague reference to a “previous VC arrangement” in the FAQ.
replies(1): >>samspe+9c
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24. foota+E7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:06:35
>>harryh+i6
Maybe Sam was the ring leader and he just went along with it?
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25. electr+W7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:07:42
>>rchaud+k2
Strange how people forget or are unaware of how absolutely evil that venture is
replies(2): >>afro88+rb >>Murome+Ud
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26. ilikeh+X7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:07:46
>>wahnfr+C5
I don’t believe accusations from March about something that allegedly happened when he was 13 would be the cause of any of this.
replies(1): >>partia+ac
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27. squidb+68[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:08:13
>>rchaud+k2
Though not if he (co-)founded the company.
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28. ignora+88[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:08:19
>>saliag+i
> We all know what. HN moderators are deleting all related comments. Edit: dang is right, sorry y'all

This from 2021? >>37785072

Bad if true, but highly unlikely that it is.

29. resour+e8[view] [source] 2023-11-17 21:08:32
>>jurgen+(OP)
Not _very_ wrong, just duping investors about the technical and financial prospects of the company. Nothing serious /s
30. reneci+P8[view] [source] 2023-11-17 21:11:52
>>jurgen+(OP)
is always about money, even immoral behavior falls down to potential economic impact.

my 2 cents that he lied about profitability, they should be expending massive money in operations, they need to cut cost to deliver an attractive business model for their service and from a shinny startup star boss that'd had to be a straight f.u.

replies(2): >>karmas+Eb >>Iv+Dc
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31. zoklet+09[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:12:38
>>Siddha+Y5
That's what I was thinking too. Maybe she's taking it further than Twitter.
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32. bushba+y9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:14:19
>>willia+t6
A coup wouldn't have him immediately fired. Instead he'd be placed in some advisory position while they transition in a new CEO. The immediate firing means scandal of some sort.
replies(1): >>digita+tj1
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33. floxy+Z9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:16:11
>>harryh+i6
Could be something like Brockman pushing to investigate further, before having the vote, and the rest of the board not liking that.
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34. sfe22+za[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:18:44
>>coffee+P6
Took the “Do Things that Don't Scale” to the absolute limit
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35. afro88+rb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:22:33
>>electr+W7
How so? You're not thinking of OneCoin perhaps?
replies(1): >>codetr+id
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36. b112+ub[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:22:38
>>willia+t6
How do these board members relate to Microsoft's holdings? Is Microsoft making a play here?

Honestly have no idea, but I'm sure a shift of control could cause this.

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37. karmas+Eb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:23:25
>>reneci+P8
Not regular money

I think it could be transferring of OpenAI’s assets to other entities.

It is scandalous for sure

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38. samspe+9c[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:25:48
>>nonfam+y7
Sam Altman had no equity in OpenAI https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/openai-ceo-sam-altman-didnt-...

He confirmed it verbally as well in his May 2023 hearing in Congress https://twitter.com/thesamparr/status/1658554712151433219?la...

replies(1): >>nonfam+qg
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39. partia+ac[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:25:50
>>ilikeh+X7
Other women could have come forward.
replies(1): >>junon+Xd
40. Iv+cc[view] [source] 2023-11-17 21:26:06
>>jurgen+(OP)
The board discovered that the process `GPT5-training` that has been running for months on their über-datacenter was actually mining bitcoins.
replies(1): >>Dr_Bir+nH
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41. fragme+qc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:26:55
>>rococo+r4
Turns out, there's no such thing as an LLM, it's all been a hustle with a low-paid army of writers in Kenya that Sama and gdb have been giving iv meth to.
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42. alvis+rc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:26:59
>>Siddha+Y5
The thread seems to be got picked up only last month given the timestamps of majority of comments and reposts were made. If the board decided to make an investigation, it'd be the timing to fire Altman.
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43. Iv+Dc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:27:38
>>reneci+P8
Either that or he refused to do something that would bring a quick money grab. 50/50 as far as I'm concerned.
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44. sulam+Zc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:29:49
>>harryh+i6
It's probably simple reporting logic. Having a board member reporting to someone not on the board would be problematic.
replies(1): >>jholma+Ti
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45. erupt7+3d[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:29:58
>>alvis+X6
Pretty sure Ilya Sutskever is the most valuable out of the group
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46. codetr+id[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:30:38
>>afro88+rb
No.

> Many critics have called Worldcoin's business—of scanning eyeballs in exchange for crypto—dystopian and some have compared it to bribery.

https://time.com/6300522/worldcoin-sam-altman/

> market makers control 95% of the total circulating supply at launch, leading to an initial market imbalance.

https://beincrypto.com/worldcoin-wld-privacy-risk/

> Worldcoin’s use of biometric data, which is unusual in crypto, raises the stakes for regulators. Multiple agencies expressed safety concerns amid reports of the sale of Worldcoin digital identities, known as World IDs, on virtual black markets, the ability to create and profit off of fake IDs, as well as the theft of credentials for operators who sign up new users.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-08-23/worldc...

replies(1): >>afro88+411
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47. Murome+Ud[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:33:03
>>electr+W7
Where do I read about that if I intentionally avoided all the crypto scam and missed all details?
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48. junon+Xd[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:33:05
>>partia+ac
Altman is gay, FWIW.
replies(1): >>partia+8k
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49. wholin+Xf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:41:05
>>jb1991+47
While i agree, I'm curious why you choose this comment specifically to call out. This is the fastest growing hn thread I've ever seen with over 300 comments and 1000 votes in the first hour. Almost every comment is debating some pure speculation or another. The content of the link, the context of the company and individual, and absolute lack of clarifying details while presenting very strong indications that such exists make it so that there's basically no way anyone can do anything other than speculate. No one knows anything, everyone here is guessing
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50. nonfam+qg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:42:44
>>samspe+9c
From https://openai.com/our-structure :

> Even OpenAI’s CEO, Sam Altman, does not hold equity directly. His only interest is indirectly through a Y Combinator investment fund that made a small investment in OpenAI before he was full-time.

That word “directly” seems to be relevant here.

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51. knd775+Wg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:45:09
>>alvis+X6
Not gone, just out of power.
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52. jholma+Ti[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:55:10
>>sulam+Zc
No, that sort of thing isn't that weird, in relatively young companies. Think of when Eric Schmidt was CEO of Google. Larry Page and Sergei Brin reported to him as employees of Google, and he (as CEO of Google) reported to himself-and-also-them (as the board), and all of them (as the board) reported to Larry and Sergei (as majority owners).

For another example, imagine if OpenAI had never been a non-profit, and look at the board yesterday. You'd have had Ilya reporting to Sam (as employees), while Sam reports to Ilya (with Ilya as one member of the board, and probably a major stakeholder).

Now, when it gets hostile, those loops might get pretty weird. When things get hostile, you maybe modify reporting structures so the loops go away, so that people can maintain sane boundaries and still get work done (or gracefully exit, who knows).

replies(1): >>astran+gj
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53. astran+gj[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 21:57:32
>>jholma+Ti
Comma (geohot's self driving company) has a reporting loop because geohot demoted himself from CEO.

Twitter also has one, although that's hardly a functioning example.

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54. tivert+0k[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:01:36
>>termin+g7
It seems like it's been getting a bit more attention over the past month.
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55. partia+8k[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:02:41
>>junon+Xd
If he already abused his sister, him being gay isn't a subject that matters on his preferences on who to prey on.
replies(1): >>ksaj+5C
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56. yunwal+Tn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:24:04
>>fallin+n7
Things like this can take a very long time to blow up. Cosbys first accuser was in 1965
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57. ksaj+5C[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:30:53
>>partia+8k
First, this is an accusation made on OnlyFans. Second, he was 13 at the time. You'd have to connect this accusation to truth, and that truth to his adult life.

So I can't fathom her accusation having anything to do with anything.

They've made it clear that the issue has something to do with statements he has made to the board that ended up not being true. The question is of what those statements may be. Not about his potential childhood errors or his onlyfans "model" sister's claims.

So homosexuality isn't relevant here. But nor is what his sister claims.

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58. Manuel+fG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:50:31
>>wahnfr+C5
These allegations date all the way back from 2021, and the sister has made some other dubious claims like Sam hacking her wifi which erode her credibility. I highly doubt that this was the cause of his removal.
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59. Dr_Bir+nH[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:57:05
>>Iv+cc
XD I love this theory
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60. afro88+411[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 01:38:27
>>codetr+id
Wow. Just wow. Thanks for the info.
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61. digita+tj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 03:53:32
>>bushba+y9
No. A weak coup would do exactly that. They have to isolate and alienate or they risk the ousted leader coming back or damaging the company.
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62. cubefo+by3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 19:37:40
>>dang+V2
They were flagged, a system where a minority of HN users can moderate away posts they don't like.

Is there any overview which lets us see specifically flagged submissions? I suspect this system has too many false positives to be useful.

replies(1): >>pvg+244
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63. pvg+244[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 22:43:30
>>cubefo+by3
Turn on showdead in your profile. You can also vouch for comments you feel were misflagged.
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