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1. op00to+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-09-27 00:00:01
The lights in my house turn on and off with the rhythm of our lives. We don’t think about turning a light on or off. They do that by themselves. My home knows when the dishwasher is done. My home can silence alerts if I’m on a zoom call. My home knows if the air quality is low and doesn’t turn on the ventilator fan.

Automation is not about having an app for your lights, it’s about not having to think of trivial stuff like turning on a light.

replies(3): >>jrockw+o2 >>XorNot+h8 >>syndic+Bt
2. jrockw+o2[view] [source] 2023-09-27 00:13:21
>>op00to+(OP)
I like having an app for my lights. Getting a little dark during a video call? Just turn the lights on without missing a beat. Better than the awkward "I'll be riiight back" that wastes 10 people's time.

(As for automatically turning on lights, that is also good. I have two receptacles outdoors that aren't on a switched circuit. Thanks to the magic of smart lights, they are now off during the day.)

replies(4): >>owlnin+K9 >>lolind+So >>ihuman+Gq >>fnord1+U81
3. XorNot+h8[view] [source] 2023-09-27 00:50:05
>>op00to+(OP)
The other thing is that it means you can fix light switches which are in awkward places. I went to a lot of effort moving a couple of light switches in my house before I started wiring them all for ESPHome-based control...and me and my wife realized that actually, most of the light switches we're unhappy about can just be left alone since automation can make them way more useful (a simple example is just having the garage lights turn on when the garage door opens - makes coming home at night with a baby a lot easier, and also means you don't forget to turn them off).
replies(2): >>op00to+Ma >>TheSpi+MZ
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4. owlnin+K9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:59:08
>>jrockw+o2
And in my house the primary lights we use are lamps, so I can just shutdown or adjust the house/each room/lamp easily.
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5. op00to+Ma[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:05:41
>>XorNot+h8
Indeed! I have three lights in my backyard on three different circuits. Each one has a caseta dimmer but I linked them together with some scripting so no matter how you change one - switch, app, whatever, they all react in unison.
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6. lolind+So[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:37:34
>>jrockw+o2
Maybe this is what I'm missing—opening an app is far more fiddly to me than standing up, flipping a switch, and sitting back down. I have to get my phone out, open it, hope face ID works (you mentioned it was dark), enter my code if not, find the app, click the app, wait for it to load, find the right button...

Do other people not struggle with apps the way I do?

replies(6): >>nerdbe+kx >>smiley+vx >>c0pium+vD >>jrockw+WF >>flemha+uT >>59nadi+U5c
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7. ihuman+Gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:51:05
>>jrockw+o2
I think you could probably just skip the awkward “I’ll be riiight back” stand up, flip the light switch and carry on. I mean unless the light switch is in another room you’d still hear whatever is going on and unless you are literally running the meeting I struggle to imagine what the purpose of announcing your action is.

Maybe I’ve become a crusty old man, in years gone by I would have thought that people would notice me getting up and wonder where I was going. Now though, I’ve realized that no one is really paying that much attention to anyone else, even if someone were curious about why you walked away for a moment, the room getting brighter and you sitting back down doesn’t require a brain surgeon to piece together what happened.

Once you remove the completely voluntary awkward part of that video call, fiddling with an app and flipping a switch are on a lot more equal footing.

replies(1): >>heyoni+8w
8. syndic+Bt[view] [source] 2023-09-27 03:13:12
>>op00to+(OP)
> Automation is not about having an app for your lights, it’s about not having to think of trivial stuff like turning on a light.

I have lived in America my entire life, a relatively comfortable life, and this sentence makes me feel extremely alienated from first world culture.

replies(2): >>jletie+7u >>c0pium+HD
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9. jletie+7u[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:16:20
>>syndic+Bt
strong agree here man. I like to think controlling my living environment being a primary function of life
replies(3): >>vpribi+Fv >>c0pium+YD >>throwa+CE
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10. vpribi+Fv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:27:40
>>jletie+7u
just like growing your own barley, amiright?
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11. heyoni+8w[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:31:09
>>ihuman+Gq
Good lighting is a luxury for sure but can definitely get complicated to control properly with just switches. The other thing is, once you’re in that ecosystem, you fiddle a lot at the beginning and then you don’t. My lights get blue and bright during the day and get warmer into the evening and since I work in the living room, it’s nice to have the two setups together.

When it works, it just feels good but certainly isn’t a necessity. And of course that’s just lights. I used to have my hvac system integrated into HomeKit too and again, it was nice being able to control the thermostat in my kids room without having to go in. More recently I’ve had a neighbor that smokes a lot of weed and something about the closets being badly insulated is letting in all his smoke in my daughter’s room. Tried talking to the guy and nothing happened. Luckily, his smoking schedule is super precise and I was able to set timers for my kids air purifier to go off at his exact smoking time for 1 hour. It’s been 3 months since I’ve seen particulate matter go above 30ug/m^2…it used to get as high as 180!

Being a renter means I’m only halfway into the automation game but I gotta say, given the right product and platform I’m all in. And if something doesn’t work right then it’s time to reverse engineer it and make it behave.

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12. nerdbe+kx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:39:37
>>lolind+So
I don't generally find those interactions to be a struggle, but it's still 10x easier and faster to get up and turn on the light using the old-fashioned switch.
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13. smiley+vx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:40:53
>>lolind+So
4 ways to avoid an app

- schedule

- motion sensing

- voice

- routines / iftt (if it's a cloudy day, and zoom is open, then set brightness to x, maybe even open the shades)

replies(2): >>kQq9oH+4A >>komali+5C
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14. kQq9oH+4A[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:58:13
>>smiley+vx
- light switch
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15. komali+5C[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:16:08
>>smiley+vx
> - motion sensing

> - voice

But we already solved that with "Clap on!" :D

replies(2): >>Corrad+GU >>smiley+pF6
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16. c0pium+vD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:26:15
>>lolind+So
Android and iOS both have the ability to have smart home controls in the notification shade/control center. Both also allow them to be used when the device is locked.
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17. c0pium+HD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:27:34
>>syndic+Bt
It’s just that you don’t think about all of the ones you already use. Elevators are the classic example here, or a washing machine.
replies(1): >>syndic+hN2
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18. c0pium+YD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:29:16
>>jletie+7u
What about what they described makes you think they’re not in control? It’s the same principle as a mercury switch thermostat; figure out what you want the system to do and then automate it so you don’t have to constantly screw with it.
replies(1): >>syndic+cu2
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19. throwa+CE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:34:28
>>jletie+7u
Hence for example using a clip lead on the bare terminals to turn your HVAC on and off when you feel the need, rather than automating the maintenance of temperature by such unworthy means as a thermostat.
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20. jrockw+WF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:44:36
>>lolind+So
I have a battery-powered switch on my desk, so that avoids the need to use an app. Otherwise, I have my HA dashboard pinned in Chrome, so it's always one click away. And, you can have widgets on your phone's lock screen. I also don't like playing with my phone and don't use those.

If you don't need 'em or like the idea, don't spend $75 per switch. I got into smart lights because my apartment was apparently wired by a madman; the switch for my desk lights are right outside the bathroom. (Different circuit though!) I was very tired of walking that far to turn them on and off. I then replaced every other switch the week after, and have no regrets whatsoever, except maybe not having white tint adjustment. (I just have regular old LED bulbs. The switches are smart, not the bulbs.)

Once I was fully invested, I got a wall mount remote control that fits into a dual-gang faceplate (but only needs a single gang box), so I can control all of my lights when arriving or leaving. Very convenient.

Like others, I agree that automations are also nice. I have two fixtures outside that are unswitched. They turn on at sunset and off at sunrise now. No wasted electricity trying to overpower the sun. (Those are smart bulbs, of course.)

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21. flemha+uT[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 06:58:04
>>lolind+So
I'd do it from my computer instead of a phone.

But aside from that, do you have issues with Face ID in the dark? For me it works in pitch darkness. It sends out some laser light when scanning your face and hopefully not frying your eyes.

replies(1): >>lolind+5U1
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22. Corrad+GU[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 07:08:42
>>komali+5C
10 years ago my young child had fairy lights hung up in her room. They were really pretty and not too bright. However she didn't really have a way to turn them on/off without unplugging them. So, I remembered the "Clap on!" device from years ago and thought it would be the perfect solution.

It turns out that they are hard to find and very expensive ($30) for what they are. Even if you can find them it's hard to tell if its an original unit or some super cheap knockoff that might burn your house down. :(

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23. TheSpi+MZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 07:54:13
>>XorNot+h8
I'd rather just change the wiring and fit a run-on timer on the light.

This is a trivial wiring change, and a run-on timer from a local hardware or electrical store from a reputable brand is $25.

I understand small mains wiring jobs like this probably beyond some peoples ability or desire, but the benifits are:

One off up front cost

Probably never fail

No possibility of the product vendor having any impact on the products ever, other than the possibility of a product recall due to safety.

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24. fnord1+U81[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 09:07:00
>>jrockw+o2
Holy crap how big is your home office that turning in a light is an side quest?
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25. lolind+5U1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 14:16:06
>>flemha+uT
I have Android, not iPhone.
replies(1): >>flemha+WI8
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26. syndic+cu2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 16:34:21
>>c0pium+YD
Well technically Amazon/Google/Philips/whoever is in charge of turning on the lights. You just happen to be sending a message that you want your lights turned on, but next week they might ask for a little more personal information or they won’t turn on the lights.

It’s creepy af

replies(1): >>c0pium+zr4
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27. syndic+hN2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 17:52:17
>>c0pium+HD
Well no, the analogy would be if you got on an elevator and it could only be controlled by an app that you have to log in to use
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28. c0pium+zr4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-28 03:13:52
>>syndic+cu2
Seems like you missed the part where people run these offline. Don’t be so helpless.
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29. smiley+pF6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-28 18:03:51
>>komali+5C
Yes, "Clap on" is a valid competitor; it's not great in a room/house with multiple lights / rooms.

Motion sensing can be solved with Passive Infrared sensing light switches, it works great for my laundry, closets, and pantry.

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30. flemha+WI8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-29 09:20:20
>>lolind+5U1
Ah, sorry. Thought Face ID specifically referred to the Apple feature.
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31. 59nadi+U5c[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-30 10:32:01
>>lolind+So
I'm in the same boat as you (though generally not in the context of home automation and things) and I've also wondered the same thing. Using an app is just about the worst way I can interface with things and is only useful when it's the only possible way, like when I'm out and about.

One assumption I've made is that people just have much better and responsive phones than I do: I regularly wait 2-4 seconds for even the simplest things to happen on mine and it's overall a terrible experience. Overall I would say most phones I've had were like this at some point in their lifetime (often the majority of the lifetime), including a latest model Samsung phone that arguably was ahead of most available phones at the time.

I'm not sure what to think: I think it's just a matter of being used to a certain way of interacting with things in the end. Nothing's been able to replace a computer program for me, whether it be CLI, TUI or GUI.

As for home automation with apps vs. traditional switches and stuff I've always assumed that most of the stuff is done for coolness sake and because it's fun. Certainly what draws me to some of these things (though I haven't pulled the trigger on any of it) is that I could actually interface with the rest of the world from my computer, which I just think is a fun idea.

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