I'm now assuming the part they don't like is §10.4(ii):
> 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: [...] _(ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, training, testing, improvement of the Services, Software, or Zoom’s other products, services, and software, or any combination thereof_
Notice that 10.4(ii) says they can use Customer Content "for ... machine learning, artificial intelligence, training", which is certainly allowing training on user content.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/11/zoom-admits-to-shutting-do...
Quibbles over the definition of phrases like “Customer Content” and “Service Generated Data” are designed to obfuscate meaning and confuse readers to think that the headline is wrong. It is not wrong. This company does what it wants to, obviously, given it’s complicity with a regime that is currently engaging in genocide.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037.amp
Why do you trust them to generate an AI model of your appearance and voice that could be used to destroy your life? I don’t.
> 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: (i) as may be necessary for Zoom to provide the Services to you, including to support the Services; (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, [...]
Customer recordings are service generated content.
Sounds like it can eventually include chats during a call.
Sounds like it can eventually include the files of your meeting recordings in its processing, since it is a file. A call recording stored to your zoom cloud can be a form of service generated data from calls.
And sounds like it include transcripts of live audio could also function as service generated data (was the audio clear? Could ai convert speech to text?)
The statistics of calls could turn into the wavelengths of the audio and video in real time. Gotta keep an eye on the quality with AI.
My only question is if this include the paid users?
If so, I had been meaning to move on from Zoom as a paid customer and this may have done it.
It’s not end to end encryption if Zoom can tap into your files on your cloud or computer. Or let you pretend you are providing the other party with encryption when they aren’t safe. Corporate information is valuable to some.
You really think that the engineers in China are not actively working on developing AI models of users without using a lot of user content to feed the model? Doubtful. Hiding behind ill-defined terms has the fingerprints of an Orwellian regime. I think I know which one.
This clause reads like the distinction is less about the contents and more about zoom's rights to use any content
> Service Generated Data; Consent to Use. Customer Content does not include any telemetry data, product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software (“Service Generated Data”).
Notice that Service Generated Data quite explicitly doesn't include Customer Content.
On the contrary, it says Customer Content doesn't include service generated data. So you don't have rights to the telemetry or anything else they collect.
It does not say Service Generated Data doesn't include their own copies of customer content, which could be a part of "data Zoom collects .. in connection with your .. use".
I get that legalese is like human-interpretable pseudocode, but like, is there really no better way to word this? How can you grant without agreeing to grant?
> import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works
Wow this cover of Daft Punk - Technologic sucks.
I, for one, do not welcome our dystopian overlords, but am at a loss to what I can do about it. I try to use Jitsi or anything not-zoom whenever possible, but it's rarely my pick.
I think it's more that they're being explicit about the logical AND in that sentence. You agree to grant, AND grant them the permission.
I think it's a technicality about it being a "user agreement" so they probably have to use the word agree for certain clauses.
>>37022623 [a number of links regarding how to play with bots and bork training by"malforming" your inputs]
Maybe its just a coincidence.
Or maybe it’s two angles perfectly coinciding.
"Hereby grant" means the grant is (supposedly) immediately effective even for future-arising rights — and thus would take precedence (again, supposedly) over an agreement to grant the same rights in the future. [0]
(In the late oughts, this principle resulted in the biotech company Roche Molecular becoming a part-owner of a Stanford patent, because a Stanford researcher signed a "visitor NDA" with Roche that included present-assignment language, whereas the researcher's previous agreement with Stanford included only future-assignment language. The Stanford-Roche lawsuit on that subject went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.)
[0] https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Draftin...
"10.1 Customer Content. You or your End Users may provide, upload, or originate data, content, files, documents, or other materials (collectively, “Customer Input”) in accessing or using the Services or Software, and Zoom may provide, create, or make available to you, in its sole discretion or as part of the Services, certain derivatives, transcripts, analytics, outputs, visual displays, or data sets resulting from the Customer Input (together with Customer Input, “Customer Content”); provided, however, that no Customer Content provided, created, or made available by Zoom results in any conveyance, assignment, or other transfer of Zoom’s Proprietary Rights contained or embodied in the Services, Software, or other technology used to provide, create, or make available any Customer Content in any way and Zoom retains all Proprietary Rights therein. You further acknowledge that any Customer Content provided, created, or made available to you by Zoom is for your or your End Users’ use solely in connection with use of the Services, and that you are solely responsible for Customer Content."
"The company has previously acknowledged that much of its technology development is conducted in China and security concerns from governments abound."
https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/11/zoom-admits-to-shutting-do...
Not necessarily — in some circumstances, the law might not recognize a present-day grant of an interest that doesn't exist now but might come into being in the future. (Cf. the Rule Against Perpetuities. [1])
The "hereby grants and agrees to grant" language is a fallback requirement — belt and suspenders, if you will.
So by that logic. No.
The purpose of 10.4 is to allow zoom to send your call to other services, like say YouTube for live streaming, or any of the dozens of other services that integrate with their APIs. Without 10.4, three quarters or more of Zooms use cases would no longer work.