zlacker

[parent] [thread] 8 comments
1. kortex+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-08-06 14:50:07
> You agree to grant and hereby grant

I get that legalese is like human-interpretable pseudocode, but like, is there really no better way to word this? How can you grant without agreeing to grant?

> import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works

Wow this cover of Daft Punk - Technologic sucks.

I, for one, do not welcome our dystopian overlords, but am at a loss to what I can do about it. I try to use Jitsi or anything not-zoom whenever possible, but it's rarely my pick.

replies(5): >>kitchi+n1 >>rolph+t2 >>SoftTa+Z3 >>angled+Q7 >>dctoed+Oi
2. kitchi+n1[view] [source] 2023-08-06 14:57:09
>>kortex+(OP)
> How can you grant without agreeing to grant?

I think it's more that they're being explicit about the logical AND in that sentence. You agree to grant, AND grant them the permission.

I think it's a technicality about it being a "user agreement" so they probably have to use the word agree for certain clauses.

3. rolph+t2[view] [source] 2023-08-06 15:02:31
>>kortex+(OP)
set yourself up with a couple of vices [coffee, smokes] and have look here, for things you can do:

>>37022623 [a number of links regarding how to play with bots and bork training by"malforming" your inputs]

4. SoftTa+Z3[view] [source] 2023-08-06 15:10:59
>>kortex+(OP)
And after that litany of very specific things, "and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content." Couldn't the whole paragraph just have been that phrase?
replies(1): >>psunav+Hr
5. angled+Q7[view] [source] 2023-08-06 15:35:05
>>kortex+(OP)
To whom at Zoom do we send the eDiscovery (and litigation hold) requests? My goodness.
6. dctoed+Oi[view] [source] 2023-08-06 16:35:14
>>kortex+(OP)
>> You agree to grant and hereby grant

"Hereby grant" means the grant is (supposedly) immediately effective even for future-arising rights — and thus would take precedence (again, supposedly) over an agreement to grant the same rights in the future. [0]

(In the late oughts, this principle resulted in the biotech company Roche Molecular becoming a part-owner of a Stanford patent, because a Stanford researcher signed a "visitor NDA" with Roche that included present-assignment language, whereas the researcher's previous agreement with Stanford included only future-assignment language. The Stanford-Roche lawsuit on that subject went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.)

[0] https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Draftin...

replies(1): >>mafuy+0h1
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7. psunav+Hr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-08-06 17:17:07
>>SoftTa+Z3
Not a lawyer, but generally when whole paragraphs aren't "that phrase" it's because people read loopholes into "that phrase."
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8. mafuy+0h1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-08-06 22:15:25
>>dctoed+Oi
Yes, but the parent commenter noticed that and wondered about the other part, the "agree to grant" part. Simply "hereby grant" should suffice.
replies(1): >>dctoed+Zj1
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9. dctoed+Zj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-08-06 22:38:28
>>mafuy+0h1
> Simply "hereby grant" should suffice.

Not necessarily — in some circumstances, the law might not recognize a present-day grant of an interest that doesn't exist now but might come into being in the future. (Cf. the Rule Against Perpetuities. [1])

The "hereby grants and agrees to grant" language is a fallback requirement — belt and suspenders, if you will.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities

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