zlacker

10.2 … You agree that Zoom compiles and may compile Service Generated Data based on Customer Content and use of the Services and Software. You consent to Zoom’s access, use, collection, creation, modification, distribution, processing, sharing, maintenance, and storage of Service Generated Data for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law, including for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning or artificial intelligence (including for the purposes of training and tuning of algorithms and models), training, testing, improvement of the Services, Software, or Zoom’s other products, services, and software, or any combination thereof, and as otherwise provided in this Agreement

>>isodev+(OP)
"..for any purpose", how is this ever supposed to fly in the EU or UK? Should be opt-in, not in the small print, and entirely optional.

>>isodev+(OP)
Before that:

> Customer Content does not include any telemetry data, product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software (“Service Generated Data”).

I could be wrong, but my take is that there is not all that much to see here

>>asplak+vc
Zoom is giving itself the right to collect video and audio of you that could be used today to deepfake your voice in a convincing way.

It won't be long before the video deepfakes are convincing too.

This is absolutely awful and terrifying.

>>sjmuld+Kb
“…for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law”

>>asplak+vc
It's section 10.4 that says they can use "Customer Content" for AI training.

>>asplak+vc
It's hard to understand what they mean. I understand it as they're free to generate "Service Generated Data" based on “Customer Content”. So for example, a compressed rendition of a call recording would be "Service Generated Data" and thus they will be free to do whatever they want with it (improve their caption generation models ... or sell it to someone?).

>>sjmuld+Kb
You're both misquoting and misunderstanding. Misquoting in that you clipped out the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law". And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data". That's basically data generated by their system (e.g. debug logs). It's not the data you entered into the system (contact information), the calls you made, the chats you sent, etc.

Also, the linked document is effectively a license for the intellectual property rights. The data protection side of things would be covered by the privacy policy[0]. This all seems pretty standard?

[0] https://explore.zoom.us/en/privacy/

>>isodev+ze
A recording of your call can be generated data based on their service recording it.

>>jsnell+hg
You're right, I was too quick to judge. Sorry.

>>jsnell+hg
I don't think they carved themselves out this permission for the purpose of training an AI on debug logs. For all we know "Zoom compiles Service Generated Data based on Customer Content" may include them compiling an mp4 of your call. That would seem to fall under the part of the definition that says "data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software"

>>isodev+ze
> It's hard to understand what they mean.

Working as designed, surely.

>>asplak+vc
After that, section 10.4:

> 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: ... (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, ...

I believe this might be the wording the submission references.

>>jsnell+hg
> And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data".

Isn't that what section 10.4 covers and ultimately grants liberal rights to Zoom?

> 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: (i) as may be necessary for Zoom to provide the Services to you, including to support the Services; (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, ...

>>AdieuT+Ap
Yes, but that's not the section that this subthread was about, and the objection about "this can't be legal in the EU and UK" was based on the text quoted for service generated content which is different.

And again, this is about granting an license on the intellectual property. It doesn't create any kind of end-run around the GDPR, and wouldn't e.g. count as consent for GDPR purposes.

>>asplak+vc
There is also a provision for letting them train AI on Customer Content (10.4: machine learning, artificial intelligence, training) so the distinction probably doesn't matter in this case?

>>smt88+Qd
> does not include ... product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your ... use of the Services

Did you not read the quote? Or are you telling me this still might include video and audio data? I feel like an medieval illiterate farmer reading latin...

>>geyser+5U
The scope of content used for AI training seems (to me) like it only includes video and audio data.

The list you reproduced above sounds like it's just metadata, like IP addresses, authentication logs, click tracking, etc.

>>jsnell+hg
Furthermore, as far as I know, the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law" part is just a reminder. Laws always have priority over contracts, and any part of a contract that goes against the law can simply be ignored.

>>geyser+5U
The ambiguity in this wording is on purpose, so it will be harder to tell in court (if someone sues them) that they were forbidden or allowed to do any specific thing.

They don't detail what any of product usage data is, and you might think it is content, but later one they detail that they'll use user content (which they also don't detail what it is) for AI training...

>>GuB-42+mz1
Not if at least one of the parties is a government institution, because administrative actions have a presumption of legality, similar to presumption of innocence applied to other entities.