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1. echelo+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-07-25 03:52:23
> Judging by all the hate Mozilla gets around here, it would be nice to at least see some credit given where it is due.

Mozilla, the browser, is great.

Mozilla efforts, such as Rust, have been historically great.

Mozilla leadership is currently awful. They focus is on the wrong things - web VR and low-quality foundational AI models. Maybe because they think the web is at risk of disappearing outright. But the true enemy is Google, and they're currently its well-behaved prisoner.

Mozilla can't bite the hand that feeds it, but someone needs to point the FTC, Congress, and the EU at Google. Everything they do, buy, and work on is to point an overwhelming majority of internet users at its ad products. Chrome, Search, Android, YouTube, Apple default search engine deal, etc. Google has become inescapable. And that's rather anti-competitive if you're trying to advertise your business or selling ad tech.

Nevermind that the web commons and standards are constantly in Google's blast radius for funneling everyone into their gaping maw.

replies(3): >>insani+l >>gochi+W3 >>runiq+Bz
2. insani+l[view] [source] 2023-07-25 03:56:57
>>echelo+(OP)
I can't see how Mozilla could possibly right the ship with their current CEO. If they get rid of her maybe things could improve. Until then, I'd bet on Microsoft/Apple before I bet on Mozilla when it comes to protecting the web.
replies(1): >>twelve+02
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3. twelve+02[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 04:12:47
>>insani+l
What has the CEO done?

Microsoft and Apple dont have a good history so assuming there is something big here?

replies(2): >>xxs+d9 >>insani+Is1
4. gochi+W3[view] [source] 2023-07-25 04:28:44
>>echelo+(OP)
Google is set to go on trial in 2024 with the FTC. We'll see how that goes. I don't have high hopes, primarily due to how difficult it is to expect larger reach by adhering to past laws that are quite lenient. At most I can see AdX being negatively affected, but that wouldn't result in the substantial change most want here and would just allow another like Apple to step in and repeat what Google has done.

From what I understand, the arguments about self-preferencing kind of always get thrown out due to a more strict interpretation of the law. Did with Apple, and with Facebook when they were acquiring Instagram and Whatsapp.

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5. xxs+d9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 05:18:38
>>twelve+02
Effectively ensured Mozilla is entirely dependant on Google as a single revenue steam. No other initiatives to earn anything.
replies(1): >>Vinnl+zw
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6. Vinnl+zw[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 08:50:08
>>xxs+d9
Mozilla VPN, Firefox Relay Premium, Pocket Premium, MDN Plus, Hubs Enterprise... I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.

Of course, there's also criticism for attempting those.

replies(2): >>hoover+aO1 >>FireBe+Ya2
7. runiq+Bz[view] [source] 2023-07-25 09:19:06
>>echelo+(OP)
Ya. All I want is to throw moneydollars at the fucking browser, not at whatever feel-good initiative of the month the Mozilla Foundation is coming up with. I don't understand the problem.
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8. insani+Is1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 14:59:36
>>twelve+02
Some stuff:

1. Under her leadership Mozilla has lost virtually all of its users. It has been reduced to less than 10% of what it had before, maybe worse - I haven't kept up.

2. At the beginning of Covid, a time when remote work was on the rise and tech valuations were through the roof, a time when the browser was more important than ever, she took her largest payout and fired hundreds of employees. She was compensated at over $5M dollars, enough money to pay a team of engineers for years.

3. Firefox has utterly failed to capture Enterprise market, where Chrome has managed to dominate. I doubt most people are even aware that a corp managed Firefox is an option, they have done such a poor job marketing it.

4. Every initiative Mozilla has come out with has completely failed to gain traction. Something like a VPN could have been a great fit for Mozilla but they did nothing with it. Mozilla has been incapable, organizationally, of capitalizing on technology - the thing they're kinda supposed to do exclusively.

She has failed in every conceivable way as a CEO. She has failed in terms of the mission, she has failed her employees, she has failed her users, she has failed to be an example as a leader.

Mozilla, as it exists today, is a convenient project for Chrome to point to and say "look, there's competition" - perhaps the only reason why Google continues to fund Mozilla.

Microsoft and Apple are at least competently run and have incentives to push to reduce Chrome's power.

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9. hoover+aO1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 16:14:13
>>Vinnl+zw
Mozilla should be independent from Google. No, not like that!
replies(1): >>insani+jY1
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10. insani+jY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 16:45:37
>>hoover+aO1
TBH it's a really good point. Any time Mozilla has tried to appeal to users in a way that would actually be profitable their users have lost their minds over it.
replies(1): >>xxs+Qi4
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11. FireBe+Ya2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 17:29:19
>>Vinnl+zw
Well, Pocket Premium got a lot of criticism for going completely against user sentiment, and the small matter of a lot of heavily lawyered weasel wording statements to very strongly imply that no money was exchanged when in fact quite a lot of money was exchanged to make it happen.
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12. xxs+Qi4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-26 07:33:03
>>insani+jY1
The issue is that donating money to Mozilla does nothing for Firefox; Personally I use Firefox on everything (home, work, phone); Firefox is the browser for my family too - much the same (Firefox on everything, phones included).

If I could/had to pay/donate for it - I'd gladly do, but it's virtually impossible.

replies(1): >>Vinnl+TA5
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13. Vinnl+TA5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-26 15:18:32
>>xxs+Qi4
AFAIK income from particular Mozilla products isn't earmarked for spending on specifically those products, so buying non-Firefox products can provide income that can be used to fund Firefox development.

That said, I think income from Firefox's default search engine pretty much dwarfs any income that could potentially be gained from donations/buy-to-support.

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