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[parent] [thread] 16 comments
1. mytail+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-06-27 13:44:36
There was never restraint and it used to be much worse. This is why the large body of laws and regulations we have today came into being.

Edit:

Also, in the West society in general is one of abundance with people housed, clothed and educated in school from birth, which IMHO removes a lot of incentives for scams and fraud.

But it used to be (and still is in some countries) that most people were born with nothing in a very tough environment and had to fight just to eat every day. The world of Charles Dickens was real.

replies(3): >>throwa+x >>whimsi+sl >>pbhjpb+yH
2. throwa+x[view] [source] 2023-06-27 13:46:36
>>mytail+(OP)
It’s also why funding our institutions and fighting to keep them honest is so damn important. Regulation is insufficient without enforcement.
replies(1): >>betaby+y2
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3. betaby+y2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 13:55:16
>>throwa+x
But that's precisely the problem! Every aspect of the life is over regulated and smaller bushiness are kneecapped On other side big companies can get away with whatever. At some states florist is a regulated profession and requires more hours of training than for police.

"For my friends everything, for my enemies the law".

replies(4): >>bentco+E6 >>spacem+qe >>cde-v+Oh >>Larrik+Sh
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4. bentco+E6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 14:11:52
>>betaby+y2
> and requires more hours of training than for police.

Citation? Best I could find is that Louisiana regulates floristry but doesn't mandate education (you need to take an exam). As for taking more hours of training than police I think you are conflating that fact in your head with this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cosmetologists-police-trai...

Besides, I'm not sure how you got here in a thread about how Fedex, a "big compan[y] [which] can get away with whatever" getting caught scamming people.

replies(1): >>betaby+Yc
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5. betaby+Yc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 14:35:26
>>bentco+E6
> Citation?

https://www.on.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/requirements/24582...

Florist, regulated in QC, training is ~1K hours.

https://www.quebec.ca/en/government/quebec-at-a-glance/first...

training is also ~1K hours.

> Besides, I'm not sure how you got here in a thread about how Fedex, a "big compan[y] [which] can get away with whatever" getting caught scamming people.

Car sales (any many other things) are heavily regulated where I live. Also it seems regulations are not enforced if one is 'too big to fall'.

replies(2): >>bentle+ql >>bentco+wm
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6. spacem+qe[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 14:40:58
>>betaby+y2
Fines are just the cost of doing business and are priced in. Executive crime enforcement and resulting jail time is sorely needed. And not in luxury prisons, but in real prisons where the plebs go. Fines do nothing.

One can dream, the rich at the top write all the rules. It’s not like Joe Average is the one taking golf trips with Supreme Court justices and buying lobbyists to do their dirty work.

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7. cde-v+Oh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 14:53:11
>>betaby+y2
Stop ignoring the class war and start fighting it.
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8. Larrik+Sh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 14:53:45
>>betaby+y2
That seems like an issue regulating the police and not an issue with opening up a florist business.
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9. bentle+ql[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 15:09:04
>>betaby+Yc
I just clicked through that link you provided (jobbank.gc.ca) and there's nothing that says florists need "1k hours" of training. It's unclear that they even need to be licensed at all. I also Googled for "license quebec florist" and didn't get any meaningful results.[1]

Can you provide better citation, or point explicitly to the licensing requirements?

[1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=license+f...

replies(1): >>realo+pw
10. whimsi+sl[view] [source] 2023-06-27 15:09:10
>>mytail+(OP)
Yes, and we are psychologically biased to think things are getting worse. On this sort of corruption/large scale fraud in the US, it simply is not.
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11. bentco+wm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 15:13:30
>>betaby+Yc
> https://www.on.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/requirements/24582...

> Florist, regulated in QC, training is ~1K hours.

Is it? That page is extremely vague and doesn't seem to be specific to study hours or even education requirements.

Floristry doesn't seem to be on the list of regulated professions in Quebec: https://www.quebec.ca/emploi3/metiers-professions/metiers-re..., but I may have missed it.

replies(1): >>betaby+nw
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12. betaby+nw[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 15:57:55
>>bentco+wm
De-facto florists in QC need Certificat d'aptitude professionnelle

Link in french shows 1K hours https://ecole-metiers-horticulture.cssdm.gouv.qc.ca/programm... to obtain one.

replies(1): >>halost+Fn1
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13. realo+pw[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 15:58:01
>>bentle+ql
Well... I can understand why quite a bit of specialized knowledge would be needed. You have to know your flowers well, know how to operate the refrigeration machinery, what flower keeps at which temperature, what to do if your flowers seem sick etc etc...

Although a university degree "may be required by some employers ", I find this a bit much, however.

14. pbhjpb+yH[view] [source] 2023-06-27 16:43:42
>>mytail+(OP)
>There was never restraint and it used to be much worse. //

I think maybe, in the immediate past in the West it was better.

We still lived and worked more locally, standing with neighbours mattered; corporations had less power than governments; governments were less able to manipulate their citizens, perhaps.

Politicians seem to have learnt to give just enough to quell the riots and pervert the system for maximum financial gain for those who control them; spreading losses across all those being exploited. The UK's conservative government stole something like £30B using preferential contracts in just two areas (IT, PPE supply) during the pandemic.

In the recent past it seems highly unlikely that someone sacked twice for lying, Alexander Boris de Pfeffle Johnson, would get a job as an MP, nevermind becoming PM. In the past it would be inconscionable, now the party seems to shrug and say 'he brings in a lot of a Russian campaign money, lets make him PM'.

In the UK there has been a systematic removal of scrutiny and oversight: choosing BBC management, choosing the civil service boss (it was previously always under open competition), changing the nature of parliamentary oversight, and of course Brexit helps considerably to this end.

I've no doubt it was worse in the middle ages, but considerable doubt it was worse throughout the 20th Century.

replies(1): >>mytail+841
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15. mytail+841[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 18:23:57
>>pbhjpb+yH
I think that part of the problem with politicians now is not necessarily that they are worse than before but that they cannot hide anything anymore and that scrutiny is total.

Before many things were kept secret or could at least be kept out of the press. Now everything is photographed and filmed, and politicians have the bad habit of using messaging apps instead of making quiet phone calls or simply of having a private chat and so they leave plenty of incriminating evidence in writing.

replies(1): >>xp84+2c4
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16. halost+Fn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 20:04:53
>>betaby+nw
Your claim is untrue (that such a certificate is required for florists). The link you provided is to a vocational training program for people who want to specialize in floristry (because they want to open a business). I have a friend here in Ontario who recently went through a similar program for landscaping. It was not required, but it opened a number of job opportunities that would not have been available to them otherwise.

There are only a few jobs which have mandatory qualifications (left column in the link below) and a larger number of jobs which have voluntary qualification courses. There may be secondary requirements (e.g., to work as a butcher and get insurance, your employees must have the voluntary qualification certificate), but these are not regulated professions the way you have been incorrectly claiming on this thread.

https://www.emploiquebec.gouv.qc.ca/citoyens/developper-et-f...

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17. xp84+2c4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-28 16:26:20
>>mytail+841
I like your take. The part that's frustrating/interesting is, you would think with all that increased transparency, they would be at least less brazen in their corruption.

It certainly could be that despite the appearances being better in say, 1950-2000, that actual corruption was equal or worse, and most of it went undetected and unpunished!

But my take is that it wasn't as bad, because shame used to exist. A politician would "resign in disgrace" when caught in a medium-to-large scandal (even one that seemed technically irrelevant to their responsibilities, like 'sex scandals'). And he would stay out of public life thereafter, out of shame, knowing he couldn't run for office again and win because of their shameful past. Compare Richard Nixon vs. Bill Clinton.

That's what changed. Now it doesn't matter how shameful and corrupt your conduct was, you just either deny or answer with whataboutism towards the other party's worst sins, and carry on, and for some reason voters are consistently fine with this!

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