zlacker

[parent] [thread] 51 comments
1. Wonnk1+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-06-12 22:56:50
I don't entirely disagree, but the first thing that this article brought to mind is the old cliche "wherever you go, there you are". I'm 34, lots of ex girlfriends and lots of past cities. There's a fine line between breaking out of the status quo hamster wheel and running away from your baggage.

Moving cities, or relationships, or jobs isn't worth as much if you aren't simultaneously working on yourself

replies(7): >>willio+n2 >>mattfi+X2 >>johnea+Vp >>NovaDu+9E >>jrumbu+oE >>resolu+lS >>lm2846+Gm1
2. willio+n2[view] [source] 2023-06-12 23:07:48
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
>There's a fine line between breaking out of the status quo hamster wheel and running away from your baggage.

Absolutely. I've had the urge to move from my hometown to escape baggage, mainly relationships. I've been close to pulling the trigger many times. But things got in the way and now I look back and I'm happy I didn't move. At least for that reason of escaping baggage. Odds are you'll have baggage anywhere you live if you live there long enough. Learning to grow and live with that baggage is part of being a human.

3. mattfi+X2[view] [source] 2023-06-12 23:11:04
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
In certain contexts this is called “doing a geographic”. Notorious trap for people who look solely for external causes of their discontent and ignore internal.
replies(2): >>NovaDu+nS >>prawn+D41
4. johnea+Vp[view] [source] 2023-06-13 01:52:25
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY!!!

Blowing up your life is exactly that, a big frikin mistake.

I've made several decisions that later revealed themselves as life blowing. It's not worth it.

In youth it's easy to imagine that you have infinite tries to get it right. This is totally wrong. Decisions that set your life back years can only be overcome so many times, and never completely.

So, instead of blowing it up, add it up slowly year by year, increasing your traction and equity....

replies(1): >>scarfa+Ga1
5. NovaDu+9E[view] [source] 2023-06-13 03:52:14
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
Alan Watts was the one that was always saying, "the you that is trying to be better is the same you that needs improving." Try breaking out of that trap!

To some degree if you are going to change yourself for the better, you will already be doing it. It is a bit defeatist but also a little bit of truth.

It is like how some folks try desperately to learn an instrument or get better are writing or whatever. They have this grim determination that it is something that needs to be done. To some degree you need that push through but for many it is just the process of getting to the goal, not a means of self improvement.

What I mean by that is, look at those that just took to playing musical instruments as a child. It wasn't necessarily because they were forced to do so but because they had an innate drive to do it. The lessons and practice was just a means to improve on something they were already trying to do.

All the Gibbs brothers in The BeeGee's (and Andy) took to instruments before the age of 3, they didn't do it to be better, it was just something they did.

replies(1): >>hnzix+0H
6. jrumbu+oE[view] [source] 2023-06-13 03:53:39
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
It sounds like this author believes in going really big. They didn't move cities, they moved continents. They didn't date and break up, they married and divorced.

I think there is something to be said for getting some big experiences. Moving from Pittsburgh to Cleveland might be a waste of energy. Moving from Pittsburgh to Paris is a guaranteed adventure.

I don't know if I agree or not, but it is interesting to think about.

replies(3): >>3np+0P >>heisen+4W >>Xceler+Q71
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7. hnzix+0H[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 04:12:15
>>NovaDu+9E
In creativity, unless you are a savant it takes grinding to increase your ability to match your taste.

If you started very young, then bravo, the grinding is out of the way and you were likely to be able to focus on the fun parts and have fewer distractions.

If you're starting as an adult, then it's gonna take some grit to get to a level you're satisfied with.

replies(2): >>NovaDu+8R >>bombol+VA1
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8. 3np+0P[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 05:08:10
>>jrumbu+oE
While moving from Pittsburgh to Paris to Hong Kong to Singapore to Berlin to Cape Town is more likely a waste of energy again and risks burning you (not mentioning the planet) out. It's a lot easier to turn the adventure-o-meter up than to turn it down.
replies(2): >>jrumbu+fT >>zerbin+LV
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9. NovaDu+8R[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 05:26:43
>>hnzix+0H
It isn't so much that it is hard, it is a case of how much you are put off by the potential hard work. How much drive you have regardless of the challenge.

It is some religious monasteries or teachers they use this to weed out those that they figure might not be up to it. They come to the student and say "You know if you are to get this, it will take over a decade or more before you will even begin to get the ideas we are working with!". If the student is not worried about this and see it as merely what needs to be done to get to their goal - then they will be a good student. The barriers are not seen as a problem but a process.

10. resolu+lS[view] [source] 2023-06-13 05:36:52
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
"People travel to change themselves, but they only manage to change the scenery." (Not my quote, alas, and my memory has butchered it enough that I can't find the original.)
replies(2): >>hutzli+tu1 >>marssa+MP2
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11. NovaDu+nS[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 05:37:04
>>mattfi+X2
It is fascinating to see old friends fall into this trap. Things seem great for the first few months but eventually the same old issues arise with time.

There is a stereo type in Australia that the British complain about the country once here. A big part of this is believed to be that they leave their country to start over in a place that looks completely different, start a new job and meet new people only to find that they fall into all the same issues. Rather than realize the issues are just a part of the society, they can tend to blame the country instead.

That said I used to work with someone from Nigeria, very smart fella, they had a lot of issues with the country but also understood why they left their country. All they said was "Different country, similar poison. Just pick your flavor." They fundamentally got the issue at hand.

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12. jrumbu+fT[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 05:42:31
>>3np+0P
I suspect you're right that the first time is an adventure and the fifth time is a chore.

After your first or second big move you might need to change careers or something instead.

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13. zerbin+LV[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 06:00:59
>>3np+0P
Agreed. This brand of self-aggrandizing “I did it my way” advice adverts always exemplify a special brand of narcissism; the speaker is unaware that they aren’t the center of their own life. The truth is that “blowing up your life” isn’t usually good or laudable: if you regularly find yourself in situations where you think it’s best to hard reset you’re probably very confused about what you want and need and, ironically, would probably benefit more from figuring out how to renegotiate an undesirable situation than eternally storming between grand schemes.
replies(2): >>superh+rh1 >>engine+Zy1
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14. heisen+4W[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 06:04:20
>>jrumbu+oE
Going big and blowing it up - what is there not to like? Going big requires investments and while there is a sunk cost fallacy there is also compound interest. Most larger endeavors have investments from more than one participant - and it often needs just one person to blow it all up. Last but not least: All big investment require taking on risk and you ability to stomach those may decline over time - there is survivor bias in the tale of heroes.

There are long term consequences and without discussing how they relate to rewards of blowing big things up this feels a shallow self promoting piece to me.

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15. prawn+D41[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 07:10:23
>>mattfi+X2
There's an equivalent in personal finance where people think that a payrise will solve their money woes. Their habits remain, their discretionary spending scales up, and they usually continue on with the same problems.
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16. Xceler+Q71[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 07:36:17
>>jrumbu+oE
It’s interesting that a lot of people don’t like big changes, because I’m generally the exact opposite. If I haven’t had a big change in a few years, I start feeling really anxious—like I’m letting life pass me by. Most people crave constancy and routine; I seem to crave novelty and adventure.

To your example, I moved from North Carolina to Paris when I was 3, and ever since then have wanted to go more places. It’s a bit different when you have other people who depend on you though. We moved from the southeast to the Bay Area a while back, and the experienced rattled my wife a lot, as she had lived in the same small hometown for 30 years. I suppose it is her turn for now; with remote work we moved right back to her small hometown next to her parents while our children are young. But two years into this and I’m already itching to move to Norway or Tokyo...

replies(3): >>bombol+ix1 >>wincy+Lx1 >>strong+9t2
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17. scarfa+Ga1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 07:56:00
>>johnea+Vp
See my previous comment where I talked about blowing up my life.

>>36306966

I was in the perfect place to do it at 48. I had no dependents, a stable marriage and a wife who was excited to go along for the ride with me and I had built up assets to take chances. Now that I think about it, it really wasn’t that risky. Remote was a thing and I figured worse case, someone would hire me as a consultant.

replies(1): >>svnt+bl1
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18. superh+rh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 08:48:35
>>zerbin+LV
"the speaker is unaware that they aren’t the center of their own life"

What does this even mean? Of course you are the center of your own life. That's the human experience.

replies(2): >>halfma+Jv1 >>zerbin+La2
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19. svnt+bl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 09:24:16
>>scarfa+Ga1
Blowing up your life in the sense of the article would have involved leaving your wife. I imagine that or similar extreme changes is what the parent meant.

A lot of people in this thread think selling all their furniture is a life explosion.

replies(1): >>scarfa+IB1
20. lm2846+Gm1[view] [source] 2023-06-13 09:38:58
>>Wonnk1+(OP)
It's as old as humanity

> Do you suppose that you alone have had this experience? Are you surprised, as if it were a novelty, that after such long travel and so many changes of scene you have not been able to shake off the gloom and heaviness of your mind? You need a change of soul rather than a change of climate.

Seneca, 2000 years ago

More people should read the classics, lots of wisdom you can speed run instead of discovering you fucked up the better part of your youth chasing ghosts

replies(4): >>hcks+pu1 >>moneyw+uV1 >>Wonnk1+Cs2 >>jlpom+vi3
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21. hcks+pu1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 10:47:32
>>lm2846+Gm1
At the same time it’s hard to understand something before you experienced it yourself. Something like a limitation of written communication.
replies(2): >>max68+Mv1 >>marcos+AE1
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22. hutzli+tu1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 10:48:11
>>resolu+lS
Except that traveling is already requiring change in a person, opposed to being stationary. You have to face new situations all the time - requiring a different state of alertness and consciousness.

And new sceneries have different people, climate etc. also literally changing people (microbiome for example).

So yes, some people travel to run away from problems they never dare to solve, but some people just like to be on the move, like our nomadic ancestors.

replies(1): >>llamai+Uz1
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23. halfma+Jv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 10:58:18
>>superh+rh1
Some would argue the human experience is inherently social, with other humans and the lack of stable community (putting down roots amongst friends, family and a hyperlocal community) isn't realizing said experience to the fullest. To each their own though.
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24. max68+Mv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 10:58:53
>>hcks+pu1
It seems fairly straightforward and real wisdom is learning from others mistakes
replies(5): >>Samoye+Gw1 >>matwoo+Gx1 >>twh270+FD1 >>tmount+6E1 >>m463+gW3
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25. Samoye+Gw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:06:45
>>max68+Mv1
I think this is fairly myopic. Surely you’ve experienced firsthand someone telling you something, you not “getting it” or believing them, only to be like “oh shit this person was totally right” later on? Or maybe you can like, imagine that this is a fairly normal interaction other people have?
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26. bombol+ix1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:11:52
>>Xceler+Q71
Moving in 2 isn't nearly as much of an adventure as it is doing it alone.
replies(2): >>mym199+1I1 >>rocket+VJ1
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27. matwoo+Gx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:15:46
>>max68+Mv1
It depends. Nothing teaches better than failure. Of course I don't need to try heroin to know it's bad, but there are many other things that are worth trying and learning from.

To tie it to HN, the vast majority of new companies fail. Wisdom would say don't waste time on a new company, yet many of us do just that.

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28. wincy+Lx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:16:30
>>Xceler+Q71
I think maybe it has to do with self confidence, or childhood trauma? I had a very unstable childhood and things quite often didn’t “just work out”. Adults in my life literally got stabbed and died when “interesting” new things happened. “Hi nice to meet you”, “oh he’s dead now”. “Time to go live in the women’s shelter! Hey now we live in a trailer in the middle of nowhere!” Change was scary and often not for the better. Major change was what you happened when you crawled out the window to escape dad beating mom every night.

I feel I stumbled into the stability I have and want to do everything I can to hang on to it. It doesn’t feel like something I should expect, but something I’m extraordinarily lucky to have. Moving or any other big shake up feels like a very real potential to invite chaos back into my life and destroy the small oasis of calm with my family I’ve spent years building.

replies(2): >>redmat+ZF1 >>namtab+ZM1
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29. engine+Zy1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:24:58
>>zerbin+LV
But also to the contrary this is the exact line of thinking that causes the large majority of people to sleep walk through life, as the author says. It is a hard truth of life that the large majority of people (80+% I would say) do not take any real risks in their entire long life.

You can obviously over-do it, and yes it probably feels good to follow the herd and stay in the "okay" relationship and the "okay" job with the same old things because you feel like that's what everyone does. But... there is much more outside that world. The walls you think are there are in fact not there at all. There is room for risk within reason in life.

replies(2): >>zerbin+b92 >>badpun+x23
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30. llamai+Uz1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:29:44
>>hutzli+tu1
Nomadic ancestors traveled with their (extended) tribes.

Very different from people who are straining or destroying their relationships to go have some croissants in Paris or whatever.

replies(1): >>hutzli+CE1
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31. bombol+VA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:34:49
>>hnzix+0H
The idea that to some people being a top artist comes naturally is just the excuse that lazy people use.
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32. scarfa+IB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:38:28
>>svnt+bl1
You’re absolutely right. I reconsidered what I wrote later.

>>36307059

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33. twh270+FD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:47:31
>>max68+Mv1
Not necessarily. "Inner wisdom", wisdom about yourself and who you are, usually can only come from your own experiences (both mistakes/failures and successes/victories).

You can learn a lot about yourself by "blowing up" your life. (And you don't have to go to the extremes the article describes.)

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34. tmount+6E1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:49:46
>>max68+Mv1
It takes a while to get there… most people need to experience the pain of a few real mistakes of their own before they recognize the value of paying attention to other people’s.

The worst is seeing someone making a mistake, warning them, and then they do it anyway.

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35. marcos+AE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:52:35
>>hcks+pu1
Also, changing the people around you can solve a surprising large number of problems.

It's not so much that people can't understand it, it's that it's wrong enough times for people to think it can apply to them. (Kinda like playing on the lottery; you won't win, but you have plenty of evidence to think you will.)

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36. hutzli+CE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 11:52:37
>>llamai+Uz1
Yes, this is very true. But there are new nomadic tribes forming right now.

Some actually very close bonded and always together like in the original tribal meaning, some very loose and casual. Just like minded people, who like to be on the move, but not alone.

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37. redmat+ZF1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 12:00:36
>>wincy+Lx1
Sorry that happened to you as a child. I’m glad you’ve been able to find some stability in your life and are prioritizing what you value.
replies(1): >>wincy+vT1
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38. mym199+1I1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 12:13:23
>>bombol+ix1
Just not true. It is a different kind of adventure, but certainly can be just as much, or more of one.
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39. rocket+VJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 12:24:17
>>bombol+ix1
I spent years having solo adventures only to realize I'd been missing out on shared adventures with a long term partner. With the right person, your adventures can be much bigger, at least for me. Your mileage may vary.
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40. namtab+ZM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 12:41:26
>>wincy+Lx1
I definitely found myself in what you're describing.

Especially the feeling extraordinarily lucky to have it part.

Chaos gives me anxiety. I know the general state of things IS chaos, change is the only constant, ecc. ecc., but I guess the schopenhauerian minimization of suffering is the only mantra I can entertain.

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41. wincy+vT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 13:15:39
>>redmat+ZF1
It’s just life. But I mean I definitely understand the other side of the coin. To me when things get really really bad it’s time for a really really big change.

It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective that my ancestors who voluntarily got on a boat for weeks and came to the USA sight unseen had a similar wild hare. Maybe things were really bad in Denmark at the time or maybe they just really had wanderlust. No idea.

I think things we call “disorders” like manic depressive episodes partially serve this function and there’s potentially huge rewards for venturing off into the great unknown. Manic episodes are the rocket fuel to take big risks and potentially get big rewards. Obviously enough people hit the big rewards (by having more land, having lots of kids, getting rich) that it has an impact on our genetics and our personalities. But at the same time, the dead men at the bottom of the Mediterranean who were looking for adventure don’t tell us their tales of failure.

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42. moneyw+uV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 13:27:19
>>lm2846+Gm1
Anything you’d recommend
replies(1): >>lm2846+UM2
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43. zerbin+b92[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:33:28
>>engine+Zy1
So what? Why take risks? Merely to say “look I took a risk and it paid off”? I get that risk-taking can result in wealth, fame, etc. but (and I think this is where opinions like OP’s break down for a lot of people) a lot of people struggle to get through the “sleepwalking” life - going to college, finding an apartment, getting your first car, etc. can be huge risks if you lack some generational wealth to back you up in case things go sideways. I mean, hell, most Americans have like $500 in their bank account. Going to the grocery store is a life-or-death (or eternal medically induced poverty) is right around the corner.

And I guess that leads me to what I really turn my nose up at OP’s line of reasoning. Sure, he can move to Thailand and become whatever kind of journo-grifter. I have a wife and kids! I can’t/don’t want to blow it up just to say “I took a risk” and leave them destitute. Which maybe that’s all to say there’s a big difference between gambling with someone else’s money and gambling with your own.

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44. zerbin+La2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:38:49
>>superh+rh1
I disagree, and I want to try to say this in the least cringey and New Age-y way possible, bear with me. Your limited sensory experience indicates you are the “center of your life” - that you are some spirit in your head, inhabiting a body that bumps into other bodies, etc. When you grow up you gain an awareness of other people having this experience alongside you. Sometimes it’s possible to reorient your understanding of this experience away from “I” and towards “we” and to broaden the scope of what “your” life is about. This would mean things like considering your family or community the “center of your life” which I think is considerably better happiness wise than the naive egoism that we take as the (Very American) default setting for life.
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45. Wonnk1+Cs2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 15:46:58
>>lm2846+Gm1
Thanks for replying- I completely agree. Which writing is that quote from and/or any goods tips for where to start with Seneca for someone who didn't study the classics in college?
replies(1): >>lm2846+fw2
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46. strong+9t2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 15:48:36
>>Xceler+Q71
I been on great adventures throughout my life, and the result is that I learned I'm happy right where I'm at. The place where I grew up, left a few times, returned to every time (gladly, every time), and still call home. Could just be that different people are different.
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47. lm2846+fw2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:02:03
>>Wonnk1+Cs2
You can start here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius

That specific quote is from letter 28 "On travel as a cure for discontent"

Seneca is always a good intro, easy to read and pretty low level, as in scenarios that you would face in your everyday life instead of more metaphysical topics.

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48. lm2846+UM2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 17:02:49
>>moneyw+uV1
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius
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49. marssa+MP2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 17:15:26
>>resolu+lS
Encountering a foreign culture, with foreign ways of thinking and behaving, can stretch and change you by forcing you to encounter assumptions and habits you didn't even know you had.
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50. badpun+x23[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 18:07:22
>>engine+Zy1
"Taking a risk" by definition means things may improve for you, but they can also get worse. Most people aren't in that great of a position in the first place, they don't want to fall even lower. Esp. since the lows are really low and the highs aren't really as high, and have a diminishing returns quality to them. As Jordan Peterson put it "you can only be so happy, but you can be 100% dead".
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51. jlpom+vi3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 19:02:59
>>lm2846+Gm1
A comic inspired by this: https://moretothat.com/travel-is-no-cure-for-the-mind >>30235262
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52. m463+gW3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 21:27:36
>>max68+Mv1
It seems real wisdom has a prerequisite: actually seeing/witnessing other people's mistakes.

It is hard to see other people's real mistakes, both clearly and with all the context.

I remember reading about one common parenting mistake: fighting with their spouse quietly away from their kids. Or maybe fighting happens, but resolving does not.

The idea is that kids can't learn how their parents fight, discuss and then resolve issues because they don't ever see everything start to finish.

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