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1. sanity+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-20 14:17:12
It's a drop in replacement for everything north of the user's web browser - so it's drop-in from the perspective of the user, but centralized services need to be recreated for it. We're already working on a decentralized messaging system as a proof of concept, others will follow.
replies(3): >>rascul+d4 >>rounda+g5 >>dgeise+4r1
2. rascul+d4[view] [source] 2023-05-20 14:50:17
>>sanity+(OP)
> everything north of the user's web browser

I'm not sure what this means.

> it's drop-in from the perspective of the user

From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works. It's not clear to me if this is the case with Freenet.

replies(1): >>sanity+h6
3. rounda+g5[view] [source] 2023-05-20 14:57:47
>>sanity+(OP)
I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts.. How do the system designers intend to avoid a speculative tulip market for small amounts of processing? Can anyone bring up all the computing they would ever need by plugging it into the Internet?

The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites?

replies(1): >>sanity+Hu
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4. sanity+h6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-20 15:06:12
>>rascul+d4
> I'm not sure what this means.

See the diagram here: [1]

> From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works

Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser.

[1] https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html

replies(1): >>rascul+R8
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5. rascul+R8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-20 15:23:30
>>sanity+h6
> Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser.

And if I can't access those services on Freenet then it's not a drop in replacement.

It may very well be a replacement. My issue is it being called a drop in replacement if it's not.

replies(1): >>sanity+wc
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6. sanity+wc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-20 15:48:26
>>rascul+R8
That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services.

It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized.

replies(1): >>rascul+Hj1
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7. sanity+Hu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-20 17:51:45
>>rounda+g5
> I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts

They're not contracts in the sense of a cryptocurrency, they're contracts in the sense that code and cryptography are used to control how data is used and updated in the system, similar to a database ACL, or object encapsulation in OOP.

This is a generalization of a concept called "signed subspace keys" in the original Freenet, which predated Bitcoin by almost a decade.

> The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites?

.Onion sites and services are still centralized, their server's location is just hidden by Tor. With the new Freenet the services themselves are entirely decentralized and can operate entirely independently of the person or people that created them.

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8. rascul+Hj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-21 01:31:42
>>sanity+wc
> That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services.

I feel like we're so far apart on what a drop in replacement is that there's no point continuing this.

> It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized.

I'm not looking for anything. I'm concerned that I'm being misled and that can have an impact on my decision to use Freenet in the future.

replies(1): >>sanity+rn1
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9. sanity+rn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-21 02:18:53
>>rascul+Hj1
Honestly, you're the first person I've encountered to have such a narrow interpretation of "drop-in". We can agree to disagree.
replies(1): >>Fatnin+0H2
10. dgeise+4r1[view] [source] 2023-05-21 02:59:42
>>sanity+(OP)
What direction is north? Is that between where I am currently sitting and the North pole?
replies(1): >>sanity+0t1
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11. sanity+0t1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-21 03:25:22
>>dgeise+4r1
See https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html
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12. Fatnin+0H2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-21 16:24:37
>>sanity+rn1
A tankless water heater is a drop in replacement for a traditional water heater.

Your contractor messes with it for a day and that evening you are taking a warm shower just like you did the night before.

This is what drop in means.

But if you were to go around selling people this drop in tankless water heater 150 years ago before homes had the required electricity, you would rightfully be called a liar.

replies(1): >>sanity+DH3
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13. sanity+DH3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-22 01:21:49
>>Fatnin+0H2
You're entitled to your opinion, but as you're questioning my motives there is nothing more to discuss.
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