zlacker

It's not really "remove cars" problem tho. Cars are fine and are needed, you can't move anything big with tram or bike easily. It's make other forms of transport more viable for day to day stuff

You still need vans and trucks delivering stuff to people and businesses. Bus is far more flexible form of transport than tram. Just... if you need to wait ages for one and there is no stop nearby nobody will want to wait.

>>ilyt+(OP)
> Cars are fine and are needed, you can't move anything big with tram or bike easily

What’s the percentage of cars on the road you see moving big stuff that could not be moved by other means? (Aka not people).

>>ilyt+(OP)
I think it's a refusal to acknowledge necessary trade-offs. You cannot create a human termite mound with tens of thousands of people per square mile while keeping the exact same forms of infrastructure that serve communities where everyone has their own two acres. I'm a person who enjoys the freedom and solitude of a car. That means I don't get to live in a place that has fifty restaurants within a half-mile and it would be wrong of me to try and force that environment to cater to my needs.

>>loloqu+e5
Do you have kids?

Are you affluent and lucky enough to live near their school?

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190730-school.htm...

>>ilyt+(OP)
> Just... if you need to wait ages for one and there is no stop nearby nobody will want to wait.

That's mostly a chicken-egg problem, if more people rode the bus there would be way more frequent stops and more nearby ones.

>>cscurm+78
Yes, kids. Not affluent. Lucky enough to live in a place where they assign you a nearby school. There are 5 within walking distance. Maybe 20 within cycling distance (and I mean a 20-minute ride, not a 1-hour backbreaker).

>>cscurm+78
By that link, half the kids that live a mile from school are driven in a private car.

That’s bonkers to me. That’s a completely walkable distance if road/sidewalk design allows it. That it frequently doesn’t is a failure on the part of our governments and urban planners.

>>ilyt+(OP)
The beauty is that there are so many different ways to transport things now than the form factor of car. There are electric utility vehicles the size of golf carts with heat and cooling and a bed for transporting things. There are miniature vans similar to this. They all are quieter, safer, and take up less space than cars. I agree that cars have a place, but by and large their use should not be as catered to as it is now and life should not be centered around them.

>>loloqu+e5
The YouTube channel Not Just Bikes has a 4 minute video on grocery shopping in Amsterdam, compared to when he lived in London, Ontario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk

(In response to now flagged comment below about grocery shopping 'requiring' moving big stuff)

>>cma+98
Make riding safe and clean too. No more junkies smoking fentanyl and stabbing people or screaming obscenities.

>>alista+09
Not only is it doable, with the obesity & depression rates in most of the United States it could be massively beneficial from a number of fronts.

>>alista+09
You're probably dealing with the kind of citizen that waits 2 minutes to park in front of the store... when there's several free spots just 10 metres away. Can't park close enough!

Also, wonder what 'other' is in that chart.

>>jodrel+9a
And the key part of Amsterdam is that in the 60s it was packed with cars and not the bike and walk haven it is today. Many people make he mistake thinking Amsterdam has great public transit and bike infrastructure since it’s an old European city and was never car dependant, but they made the same mistakes 50 years ago and reversed course. It’s possible to reverse the damage of car dependency.

>>cma+98
It wouldn’t matter how many people ride the bus in my town. They lose money as it is, and adding more service would widen the losses.

>>alista+09
We live 20 minutes' walk from our kids' two schools. They walk. The majority of our neighbours do not. I agree, bonkers.

>>alista+09
Walking a mile is totally doable, but it takes some time planning.

Throwing the kid in the car 2 minutes before the bell works.

The sidewalks are often there to be used, but the car is faster and easier.

I normally walk to school but it was raining today so I drove for pickup.

>>causal+D7
>I think it's a refusal to acknowledge necessary trade-offs. You cannot create a human termite mound with tens of thousands of people per square mile while keeping the exact same forms of infrastructure that serve communities where everyone has their own two acres. I'm a person who enjoys the freedom and solitude of a car. That means I don't get to live in a place that has fifty restaurants within a half-mile and it would be wrong of me to try and force that environment to cater to my needs.

In that case, what's your take on the cost of infrastructure required per capita in relation to property taxes as it pertains to suburban development?

As it stands today, property taxes in suburban areas generally do not cover the cost of infrastructure required for the areas, and hence they get subsidized by high-density areas which have a more sustainable amount of infrastructure per capita.

>>occz+x71
I don't really have an opinion, as I'm not familiar enough with the math and most of the people who are interested in explaining the math seem to be zealots who would say anything to support their particular view. I also think the debate is muddied because everyone has a different definition of "suburb" and the math is not the same depending on which version you're thinking of. There are also other factors to consider, like dense areas not having to pay for raising and educating the people who move into them but collecting their tax revenue.

>>bombca+6z
> it was raining today so I drove for pickup.

Ever heard of umbrellas? :)

> Throwing the kid in the car 2 minutes before the bell works.

It the school is a mile away, unless you live right next to a large road with 60 mph limit and no stops or traffic lights, I doubt you can make it 1 mile in 2 minutes without driving recklessly fast (and in proximity of a school).

>>bombca+6z
I live a mile from all three schools (they sit on the same piece of property). It's a mile away. There's a trail through the neighborhood to get there and there are zero road crossings (one short tunnel that's 2-lanes long).

The kids are bussed. So, they walk the length of the neighborhood and wait 10-15 minutes for the bus. They could quite literally walk to the school in the same amount of time.

Even worse, many of the parents drive the kids to the end of the neighborhood (all of 2 city blocks, though we're in the 'burbs). And then wait in their cars, engines often idling, watching the kids stand around.

The parents could walk the kids to school and most of the way home again in that time. Assuing they leave from work the second the kids get on the bus, they might save 5 minutes.

It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, I walk a mile the other direction to the office. I have to cross a 6 lane highway (signaled intersection, but still a mess). One side is housing and golf course, the other side is offices and retail. There is no sane way to get from one to the other without a car. It's some of the laziest urban planning I've seen. And this area (Reston VA) is better than average by orders of magnitude.

>>coryrc+ub
Similar chicken-egg problem there too, if such events drive people off, there becomes an even higher concentration of such encounters which drives more people off.

>>loloqu+Xc1
I normally will do the umbrella thing, but this time I had to transport a "school project of utmost importance" so the vehicle's siren song of ecological disaster won me over.

2 minutes, 5 minutes, the concept is the same. People are bad at planning and fall back on crutches.

(Part of it is stupid media-fueled disaster porn about how if a kid walks to school without an entire armed battalion of bodyguards they're going to get raped and murdered because something that happened once back in 1989.)

>>TylerE+sv
It's always full and losing lots of money? Still may not be a true loss overall if it is just subsidized for the positive externalities on congestion etc.